Post Game April 9, 2018

In Post Game - On Demand by Waldo Peterson41 Comments

Cenk and Ana host Monday’s Post Game.

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  3. Ana, seriously, whatever you decide is fine. But I think you are working on outdated info – and in doing so, have set an artificial deadline on yourself. I know how the 35 ageline appeared, but the thing is – it’s not a sharp decline at 12:01am the day of your 35th birthday. You won’t have to jump into serious fertility treatment at 36, unless there are underlying issues that would be there at 33. I may be biased, because I found out I was pregnant with my son on my 35th birthday. I had planned to be done having my kids by 30, but life didn’t work out that way. My first living child was born at 32. I guess some of it is just saying – you don’t have to set your limit and feel the artificial pressure. You can decide it’s not for you now and you can legitimately revisit that decision in a year, two years, five years. Things change, situations change. If it’s not now, then it’s ok for it be not right now. That may change, it may solidify into never. Either is fine.

    1. I find it extremely hard to believe that Ana Kasperian hasn’t researched the hell out of this subject and isn’t very aware of recent scientific evidence. You shared your experiences with your pregnancies and your children, and I must say you are a very strong person in multiple ways- not everyone is up to the physical and emotional challenges conception, pregnancy, possible miscarriage, possible birth defects, possible complications during labor, and then if all goes well- raising a human child will all bring. While you can’t imagine not having another pregnancy, it sounds as if Ana can’t imagine having a pregnancy, much less a child, at the age you are now.

      1. And that’s totally fine. Despite my long-time quest to reproduce, I don’t believe it’s necessary for everyone to do so or for happiness. But I also know how much misinformation there is out there – I’m way, way deeper into this stuff than a lot of people and the misinformation is so prevalent, it’s regularly echoed by docs.

        Ana is a completely capable, incredible person. Whatever she decides will be made into the best decision for her, without doubt. But I think she’s putting the pressure on herself by setting what is essentially an arbitrary deadline.

  4. So much of what Ana says about pregnancy has mostly been debunked at this point.
    The chance of getting pregnant is not significantly reduced pre-menopause.
    Nor is the chance of birth defects going to rise.
    These are old myths, based on bad science, mostly done by men to reinforce their own ideas.

  5. I’m with Ana, pregnancy is some Animal Kingdom Nonsense. Every little detail I’ve learned about the process–episiotomies, the blood clots, the enema–makes it less appealing. When I have kids, no fucking way am I putting my body through that–I love myself too much lol

    1. For the record – ten pregnancies, three live births, two living children and I’ve never had an episiotomy or an enema. Blood clots, yes, but I also have an MTHFR mutation. I did have a tear and stitches with my second (first full-term) child, but I never felt anything and it was fine.

      Don’t get me wrong, it is physically challenging (and I have to have a cerclage and serious physical restriction), and downright awful at points, but it was also one of the coolest experiences I’ve ever had. I think in the looming discussion about whether or not to consider another, and knowing how financially unlikely another would be, one of my greatest regrets is the idea I may never be pregnant again. I wish my body weren’t so bad at it, I’d love to be a surrogate if I didn’t risk preterm birth and all the other horrors.

      1. Some women really want children, and going through everything you have gone through is totally worth if you really do want that. However, not everyone who has been pregnant and/or had a child feels the same way about it being worth while to having their bodies be sacrificed and their health compromised for that purpose.

        1. And I fully, completely, 100% understand and support that. Pregnancy – even an easy pregnancy – is no walk in the park. But at the same time, there are a lot of myths out there that just aren’t true. Or they used to be true (ie, episiotomy and enemas) and are no longer standard medical practice. Or they are depicted in our media in such a way that the truth of experience is eclipsed (ie, water breaking in an inconvenient location to start birth . . . happens consistently in tv and film and only 12-15% of the time in real life that the sac breaks prior to birth).

    2. AMEN! If you are a woman and truly yearn to have a child, then I feel for you in having to take these types of things into consideration. If a woman wants to have a child, she should not have to deal with taking these types of things into consideration…she should be able to have a child whenever she feels she is ready…it is ridiculous. Another reason I am glad I made the choice when I was really young that I never wanted to have kids and also was lucky enough to have an OB who trusted my choice and didn’t try to steer me away from having a hysterectomy just in case I “changed my mind” (as if I would suddenly have an overwhelming urge to reproduce after a couple of decades of knowing I did not want to do so). Having kids is a monumental decision with immense responsibilities, and I admire those who choose to have children in a planned way. Unfortunately, of the couples (at least the cis couples) who choose to have children, it is always the woman who has to sacrifice their careers (yes, I realize there are alot of men out there now who are also helping out, and that is a wonderful step in the right direction for those who wish to reproduce, but it is the women who have also had to deal with the physical, much less emotional, changes their bodies have to go through). Which is why it is particularly harsh for those women who choose to biologically reproduce (as opposed to adoption), because the extraordinary changes their bodies are forced to go through are intense in themselves and having to deal with the stress of today’s work environment cannot be conducive with the stresses their bodies and minds are already going through. Then, once your body has gone through the trauma of supporting and then ripping itself apart in laboring to deliver that child, you are expected to immediately go back to the same level or production at your employment, while also being the person who society expects to take the time off when those children are sick or deal with any issues at school later on, which in turn affects the other employees who need to cover that time (some of them other women). This is why I am a strong advocate for paternity leave and, well, just basic family leave (I will never have children, but I love my parents and want to be able to be with them when they are critically or terminally ill). If we can get anything through the legislature that would ensure family time for all, I think the wage gap would be reduced significantly.

  7. Not sure if Ana or Cenk read the comments but I wish, whenever mentioning family planning that adoption is at least a part of the conversation. Ana cringes at the thought of the pregnant experience and I totally get that but I’m a guy. I always took that as a way to support adoption and my husband and are finally at a place to give it serious consideration. There are so many kids in desperate need of a safe, clean home filled with love. We all need to step up! Cheers!

    1. I think the problem I have with this is that adoption is not necessarily part of the conversation. It very well may be a good consideration for Ana, but if you want a domestic infant adoption, you are looking at a long, hard, expensive road. Some surrogates are less expensive than domestic infant adoption (and there you are paying full IVF costs, plus medical expenses plus a fee). Adopting an older child or a child from foster care is amazing – several of my friends have gone that route – but it too requires serious considerations and is not for the faint of heart. Adoption may be physically easier, but the emotional strain (on top of the financial strain, which is by no means insignificant) can be just as devastating as miscarriage and infant loss. I’ve experienced both of those and I know what my friends went through with three failed placements (mother changed her mind after arrangements had been made and after baby had left the hospital with adoptive parents in another case).

      I fully support those who want to expand their families this way – but it’s not like dropping by the shelter to pick up a puppy. There are serious conversations and hard concerns and conversations that have to be had. And there are agencies that will disqualify you for things like a suicide attempt in your past or taking anti-depressants. You have to discuss the types of problems a child can have when you have no idea of their medical history or background. You have to determine how much contact you have with the parents or bio family. These are not easy things. And much like when you run into fertility problems, you have to determine what your stopping point is. It’s definitely something that can and should be a topic of conversation, but it’s by no means for everyone.

  8. Ana there is only one reason to have a child, you want to dedicate at least 21 years to that child. Yes, I know people have children and go on professionally but it is rare that the child doesn’t suffer in some way. A child needs a full time mother. You must prepare that this is a full time, long term dedication.
    It seems that you are looking for reasons, don’t, it comes naturally or it doesn’t. There is no reason why you must have a child. You have a great time with others children because it is limited and in your control. It is different when it is constant and seemingly endless.
    I have raised children and grandchildren and I loved it but it was exhausting and limiting to other things I wish I could have done. As much as I love my family I can definitely see where another way would have been just as rewarding.
    Follow your heart and don’t feel guilty.

    1. “Yes, I know people have children and go on professionally but it is rare that the child doesn’t suffer in some way. A child needs a full time mother.”

      This is utter and complete horseshit.

      Seriously. Your other reasonable points are totally overshadowed by that amazingly condescending and entirely untrue statement.

  9. Andrew John William’s, what Christian wants is Ana. Have you seen his recent video about how much he loves her and is inspired by her and cherishes the amazing person she is? He loves that she is using her bravery and intellect and passionate voice in a very important moment in history, The stakes are indeed high, regardless of what decision she makes. But Christian will surely be an important part of the decision and the aftermath, child or no.
    Personally, I hope Ana is supported in any way she needs by TYT to keep her on the air. Hire her childcare for the office so she can bring her baby to work, give her a private place to breast feed and put the baby down. Most importantly give her all the support necessary so v that she doesn’t have to choose between having a child and continuing her crucial work with Cenk and the TYT team. We are all in this together and can’t afford to lose one of our best and brightest.

    1. “Hire her childcare for the office so she can bring her baby to work, give her a private place to breast feed and put the baby down. ”

      Ya reading this, Cenk?

      I’ll renew my annual membership anyway, primarily for Ana. But I’ll send in a double donation, if Ana decides to have a kid and you accommodate her, in this way.

    2. They are all great points but notice Ana was really talking about her career (big picture) and not necessarily her time at TYT. I think Ana is seeking bigger opportunities and while having a child as part of TYT family is no big deal, it limits her potential at other networks. That’s my take on it anyway. Cheers!

      1. There are a few hints of that, here and there.

        Hard to tell ; we still haven’t gotten that mind-reading thing going, yet.

        But maybe she is thinking outside of the TYT box. TYT will be surprised, at how many of their ‘loyal fans’ will jump ship and move on to the real hero of the show.

  10. Me and my husband are happily child-free. We both knew we wanted to be CF and it’s the best decision of our lives! For me being an aunt is so much better than being a mom.
    Don’t let society pressure you into making a decision your not 100% happy with.

    1. YES! My husband and I are CF as well, and happily so. I love being an auntie as well, but know I would never love being a mother.

      Ana, please do not let society tell you you have to be anything other than what you want! YOU DO YOU BOO!!!

  11. Dear Ana,

    Please refrain from any further soul-searching, crisis of conscience, or life emergencies, until further notice. Some of your fans are trying hard to minimize their time on an addictive social media environment, but they care too much about you to ignore your plight. Please consider their needs, above & beyond those of yourself, TYT, and the rest of the world. Thank you. 

    L & R,

    DC

  12. Ana will be a great mother she should get over her fear. It sounds like her husband probably wants a child. If he wants a child and she doesn’t it will not work out well. People need to make clear their intentions on a family before getting married. My wife and I had our last child when we were both 42. No problems. She still has plenty of time.
    I’m 64 and my family is my greatest accomplishment, nothing better than grandchildren.

  13. Ana will either be a great mother she should get over her fear. I guess it depends on her husband. If he wants a child and she doesn’t it will not work out well. My wife and I had our last child at 42. No problems. She still has plenty of time.

  14. Ana, you do you boo. Have a baby or not. You seem to have a loving and supportive family and spouse. Having a baby is the toughest job there is. With a great support system, it helps to lighten the load. I have a daughter your age, and she is an amazing woman like you. So while it may be tough, being a parent is rewarding years later. Just not on the front side. lol!!! Just keeping it real.

    1. “You seem to have a loving and supportive family and spouse. Having a baby is the toughest job there is. With a great support system,”

      Yes. She could do it, largely because of the Christian factor, and her family.

      joel1954: “She still has plenty of time.” Also true. She’s driving herself nuts for nothing. She’s got time to think about this, she doesn’t have to rush through a decision.

  15. Anna, you and Cenk are already super heroes. You don’t need anymore accomplishments. Please, just have a child. Now! We need the good genetics for the future.

    1. Seriously?! She should have a child “now!” just for the good genetics? That’s how you should decide to have a child? Wow…

  16. Oh, no. Now I’m sorry I snuck a look at the Post Game for today.

    Ana is feeling either the biological or cultural pressure, to have children? Oh, boy.

    I ended a best friendship about this a couple of years ago. Not sure if I’ll write the essay on this, but suffice it to say it had to do with her uncertainty about the subject, and my pointing out the downsides of having a third child, at this point in her life.

    My niece – 37 – just had a baby. Both she and her husband have lucrative careers, and either one of them can support the family. Also, both of them work from home most of the time with flexible hours, so the job doesn’t get in the way of nurturing. Finally, she hired a nanny part-time, and brought her mother to stay, to keep an eye on the nanny.

    I say all this, with some guilt. Because regardless of whether Ana & Christian have children or do something else they long to do, money is always an obstacle for most people. For all of the ‘family values’ that are ad nauseum preached about, our society isn’t structured as if our leaders cared about families. At least, not our families.

    Regarding Ana and having a child, she would be a nervous wreck. But who knows, maybe motherhood would teach her about improvising and make her just a little calmer. But I think that Ana’s eternal conflict with trying to be fair and trying to be strict enough ; and worrying about being overprotective but realizing that the kid has to fall sometimes to learn to walk, would drive her nuts.

    Besides, there are other things in her life, to give it meaning. Especially with someone as supportive as Christian, she doesn’t really need this experience. Just my opinion.

    On the other hand, there is something very magical, about the birth process.

    Yes, magical. Not necessarily supernatural or deistic, but some things that are unexplainable.

    During the final months when my best buddy had her second child, I had a chance to visit her, and my niece was kind enough to go with me. When I looked at her bigass stomach, and put my hand there, there was a spontaneous wave of beauty and peace and magic, that I’ve never experienced before. I should have written it down, because much of the memory is faded now. But my niece remembers me talking about it.

    Ok. I’ll say it. It was a spiritual experience, an intense one that lasted maybe 10 minutes.

    What all this comes to, is nothing. It’s all Ana’s choice. She’ll have a good life with Christian, no matter what she decides about this subject.

    One person at TYT, whom I wish would have a child, is Cranston. I think she would be a wonderful mom, and psychologically capable of managing the whole experience well, including the small stuff. She would learn things she never expected, would bond more with TYT parents & friends, and it would change her.

    Again, just my opinion.

    Hokay, thanks for the Post Game forum.

  18. ok, I’m only partway through the video, but I have to say – ANA–you don’t have to have children to be a happy and fulfilled human being! I decided when very young that I wouldn’t bring another human into this world because there are already too many. No regrets ever. Frankly, those of us who don’t have kids can’t imagine WHY anyone would WANT to have them!

  19. Ana…

    I would be careful what you say, because if you ever do have children, he/she might see your video, and feel that you had a child out of a sense of obligation. That could be devastating to a child.

    Also, other people’s experience is not your experience. You may LOVE motherhood. Whatever you decide is fine, but don’t base your decision on what other’s experience. Parenthood is unique to every person.

  21. I liked the extra stories in the post game! Please look into the journalist list story more. Seems super scary and dictatorship-y. I seriously hope Trump doesn’t get a second term because that’s when he’d really have nothing to lose. And this is coming from a Canadian.

  22. I know Ana doesn’t read these comment sections… and apparently she doesn’t read her twitter mentions… but for the love of god or whatever, will someone please tell her not to have children! For years we’ve watched her stress out over the thought of having children. And the thought of not having children. It seemed like she finally felt comfortable and confident a couple of years back in admitting that she didn’t want or need children, but now it seems like she’s waffling… it doesn’t help when the topic is encouraged I suppose. I’m the same age as Ana and my husband and I will never have children. Not biologically, anyways. We are open to adopting a child who needs a family about ten years down the road, but that’s the only way we’ll ever be parents. My degree was in developmental psychology, and after having spent many hours working with children, many more hours learning about what sort of world this is and what it’s likely to be in the foreseeable future, I truly wish more young adults would opt out of parenthood. I don’t judge those who do or want to have kids, but I can’t help but celebrate those of us who don’t.

    1. Yeah, Ana needs to just move on and not have any children. It’s okay not to have any. It almost feels like she’s giving in to societal pressures. I really hope she doesn’t have any kids. It sounds like it would be miserable for everyone involved.

      1. I agree completely. The way she spoke about it on this video sounds like a person who’s not the least bit interested in having/raising a child but is unable to admit it for whatever reason, I mean, c’mon…. unless a woman is physically unable to carry a pregnancy to term, how many outsources the pregnancy to a surrogate because it’s such an uncomfortable inconvenience?! If that’s an uncomfortable inconvenience, I hope they’re prepared to have a full time nanny to raise the kid; that’s when it really gets uncomfortably inconvenient.

    2. I’m all for supporting child free by choice, truly. But the judging on all fronts needs to stop. It’s not uncommon (in fact, I’d argue it’s very biologically normal) to waffle when it comes to children after you’ve been settled with a mate for some time. Given how much parenthood (or motherhood anyway) is put on a pedestal and the constant fear of missing out on something huge in life (whether that’s children or a relationship or a big job or a move is irrelevant), it is normal to ask again and again whether you are making the right decision.

        1. I don’t disagree with you – it shouldn’t be. But it is frequently done. One of the things Ana talked about (here or in another video) was how much her friend was struggling and that is the kind of thing that isn’t talked about. Post-partum depression and anxiety here (to be fair, I have generalized anxiety anyway that was dx’d afterwards, but was longer duration) – my husband really suffered from it. It was especially hard because we lost our first child to pre-term birth and suffered multiple miscarriages, so our second child making it full term and going home healthy was almost a foreign concept. We were completely unprepared for how hard it was going to be. I think partially we hadn’t dwelt a lot on the forthcoming changes because that was opening ourselves up to thinking about the future in a way we could not do during that pregnancy. But here was everything we’d wanted and grieved and longed for and hoped for over three years of heartbreak and it was awful. Horrible. This thing sucked up all our energy and gave very little in return. And the lack of sleep was nothing I was prepared for. Everyone kept asking how much we loved it – and how do you say, after everything we’d been through, “Oh my god, this is a nightmare?”

          I had enough friends who had had kids to know that it was a stage that wouldn’t last forever, but my husband didn’t. He really thought was a monster. It really did a number on him, until people he knew (like my brother in law) stepped up and talked about how bad they’d found the early days and how they didn’t feel really bonded until much later. Made our third child much easier.

          Parenthood – especially motherhood – get deified and it’s a mistake all around. It’s hard not to – I try to be balanced, but man, when I talk about my kids and when I’m proud of them or they are funny or not driving me to distraction, it probably does sound amazing. But the slog, the draining, the day I yelled at my three year old “Why do you hate me so much?”, the constant worry, the lack of privacy, the lack of personal time, the feeling that I’ll never have a completely clean house again . . . it’s drudgery that is only made bearable by the few transcendent moments that overshine it all.

          I think we should do more to recognize the hard work and to equalize the idea of a life well lived being one that isn’t resting on offspring.

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