TYT Hour 2 April 5, 2018

In The Young Turks Hour 2 - On Demand by Zoe J28 Comments

Tammy Talpas asks Ted Cruz to submit a DNA test to prove he is human. Alex Jones commentary on youtube and the YouTube Shooter. Tucker Carlson chimes in with the Fox News perspective. Bernie Sanders speech mentioning Obama in the midst of the faults of the democratic party. Robert Mercer worked w/ FB, Google to target swing voters w/ anti-Islamic ads. TYT Investigates diggs up dirt on Sinclair.

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  1. Summarizing in a couple of points at the risk of being repetitive.

    i) Political change is not easy. It requires the people as a whole to get certain things right and develop their thinking, **irrespective of the influence of the public voices around them**. The more cemented a bad system of government and economics is, the more difficult change becomes. In present day America, people don’t need to die on the streets for change, but at the very least, there’s no room for NONSENSE. When you “think” an economic message is addressing only white people, that is the very definition of NONSENSE. Unless people of color are swimming in money, which I think we can safely assume is not the case.

    ii) Equating a participation in the civil rights movement, doing civil disobedience to “having a black friend” is NONSENSE. If you have so much as talked to a parent, an older relative or an older colleague about it, you will know that being a civil rights activist at the time would entail intimidation, legal crackdown, targeting by law enforcement and considerable condemnation even from parts of your social circles if you were a white person. You cannot do anything meaningful in general with that kind of a lack of awareness of the reality (in this case history).
    Today, if people who care about treatment of black America as a whole need messaging to get past the claims of a few paid talking heads about Bernie’s real record on race issues versus nearly any other politician, then the time is simply not right for any meaningful political change, because the people most in the need of it are still indulging in the luxury of NONSENSE.

    iii) Forget Bernie. At the end of Obama’s political career, taking a comment on his legacy and connecting it to MLK is absurd and really an insult to MLK. If you care for black America, understand that an emotional baggage preventing from seeing Obama’s career dispassionately equals standing every bit in favor of a social, economic and military order that MLK wanted NO part of and fought to his death to defeat.

    Among the commentators who stress often about the need to see what’s good for you past your celebrity culture, I like Yvette Carnell (former aide to Barbara Boxer, rose some among the DNC ranks before moving away from the Democratic Party). I first saw her here,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNP8_BGvAf8

    and then checked out her channel and site (breakingbrown).

    iv) Understand that gradualism in the sense of the current Democratic Party is not gradual change for the better, but gradual change for the worse. If the indulgence in nonsense continues on part of Democratic constituencies, I am sure you will still get a blue wave. The momentum on the Democratic establishment side now is as real as the momentum on the grassroots side (which is why Mary Newman can come within a couple of points, but Dan Lipinski still wins). But we have seen how long these non performing majorities stay from 2010 and what they are followed up with.
    The other side does not like to stand in one place. So it can start with temporary Bush tax cuts, then permanent Bush tax cuts and then massive corporate tax slashes burning a hole in the govt.’s budget in a 10 year period with 8 years of Presidency, six years of senate majority and 3 years of house majority.

    One last point on something that I think is the most valid argument against Bernie – his age. Beyond the 8 years of presidency, movements and political parties do require continuity in leadership. So it would have been great to have someone to pick the baton up right now. But there simply isn’t.

    When Bernie talks to a crowd that disagrees on many different issues with him, he can still reach them and make sense. He can go in the middle of Trump country and have a townhall full of people give him a standing ovation, even the disagreeing ones seeing the merits of his arguments. And that’s not a single issue phenomenon as in healthcare, that’s what his legislative record also has been like – forging coalitions even with deeply conservative republicans.

    Political change isn’t about tweaking turnouts and messaging in an election cycle, but a fundamental shift in mindset. America needs to realize and come to terms with the truth that the profit motive is bad for public education, health, infrastructure and utility. It needs to realize that fairness in wages for the work you do is not only a moral thing, but also necessary for long term economic stability and prosperity. That shift WILL NOT come with someone who cannot talk to the entire country, from California to coal country, from New England to the rust belt.

    I personally love Tulsi Gabbard, so much that I will put my job on hold and work for her campaign if she decides to run, but I know she doesn’t have the ability to strike up a conversation in the middle of West Virginia or Indiana. Neither does Nina Turner, or Beto O Rourke or Pramila Jaypal, all of whom I also really like. On the establishment side ? You really think Kamala Harris can EVEN turn around the disillusioned rust belt voters who are the bare minimum needed to give a Democratic majority ? It doesn’t even work as a thought experiment.

    The urgency of raising a new generation of progressive, uncorrupted leaders is very real and justified. But that doesn’t mean casting aside the best option you have TODAY. A leader with an agenda of progressive change, who has the ability to connect with and convince the ones disagreeing with us. It would be a blunder of blunders to let that ability go to waste.

  3. So, I’m going to say something honest that isn’t going to go over well here, but I don’t care. Bernie absolutely does have a problem with POC and women – whether we think it’s fair, or right, or justified is irrelevant. Yes, Bernie active in the 60’s for civil rights. Yes, Bernie has vocally supported women’s rights in his career. But to post pics from 50 years ago and claim that is sufficient is akin to saying you can’t be racist because you have a black friend. POC and women are saying, clearly and loudly, that they have issues with Bernie. Bernie has a perception problem – he focuses singularly on economic issues to the exclusion of other issues. Before someone shouts that his policies would impact POC favorably – I get it. But Bernie *talks* a lot about the economy and dissatisfied working/middle class people and the groups he seems to be referring most to are white. Bernie has been dismissive of identity politics in favor of focus on the economy. He has supported pro-life candidates because of their economic platforms.

    And you know what? I think that’s ok! I think coalitions are fine. I think we all prioritize our issues based on our personal experiences and beliefs and world views. It’s easier for me to prioritize reproductive rights over something else, because it’s something that has directly impacted my life and a cause I believe in quite passionately. Great. Bernie’s focus is economy. That’s not an issue. What IS an issue is how the perception of his view of race and gender issues is portrayed.

    We can cry mainstream media and blame . . . but Bernie bears responsibility here too. He’s effed up in soundbites, he’s been dismissive where he ought to have been conciliatory. He’s relied on his past record when he could have made an impactful current statement. Have things been blown out of proportion by segments of the media and persons within the Democratic Party? Of course. Guess what? Hillary had very similar baggage. 30 years of smearing by the vocal right-wing left her carrying a crazy amount of baggage. It’s something progressives and Berners took issue with in the selection/coronation of Hillary as candidate. It’s something I repeatedly warned my “I’m With Her” friends about when they waved away concerns over the baggage – that they were underestimating how pervasive and severe and deep it was. They kept saying “But that’s not true!” and “But she did this!” and “She said that!” and “That was misreported/misunderstood!” and “She’s so qualifed!”

    And y’all are doing the same. damn. thing. here with Bernie. You are waving off things you don’t like hearing about Bernie because you disagree with them. Bernie may be a totally stand up guy on racial issues, but he’s going to have to overcome the perception that he is flawed and unconcerned. Bernie may be great on women’s issues, but he’s got work to do because he was perceived to misogynistic in his treatment of women and the importance of women in politics. Bernie may be a completely on-point politician who has stood by his principles for years of public service, but he’s got a perception among a not-insignificant population of left-wing voters as a spoiler who believes things are due to him. Stop whining it’s unfair – you sound like a Clintonista. Learn the lessons of 2016. Bernie needs someone to help him overcome these perception issues if he’s serious about running. Pretending they aren’t real or that they won’t matter because it’s mainstream media doing mean mainstream things is foolish. Soundbites matter. Tone matters. Words matter. Perceptions matter. People voted for Trump because they bought his perception of being their champion and the perception that Clinton didn’t care and was looking to continue bad policies. Perception matters. You aren’t going to change the perception with arguments or by insisting other people are wrong. That entrenches their stance.

    Seriously – I get the context of his remarks. I AGREE with him about the losses and the work to be done. But saying anything remotely critical of the first black president on the 50th anniversary of a civil rights iconic leader’s assassination is STUPID. It’s bad optics. It eclipsed his real point. And it’s an unforced error he commits over and over.

    My honest belief? If we want the left to come together and stop litigating 2016 and form the coalition we actually need for the Blue Wave and to take back the government in 2018 and 2020, I think we need a new slate. You can’t insist Hillary go away and Bernie stay because you like his politics better. I think we’d all be better served if they would both step back and promote younger (preferably female, preferably PoC) candidates who lean progressive. We need new people to rally around, we need progressives to lead and I think Bernie is hurting that cause at this point. It’s not a matter of not liking him – I’d vote for him tomorrow against nearly anyone else. But it’s going to be a war that we just don’t need and Bernie is a flawed candidate.

    1. Your perceptions seem to be based entirely on a diet of straight mainstream media propaganda. You are repeating the talking points of establishment puppets.

      Fortunately, the people making this revolution happen ignore the establishment propaganda.

      You should watch the ACTUAL footage of the Town Hall — listen to the predominately black audience give Bernie a roaring standing ovation of approval at the beginning… listen to them cheer thunderously to his criticism of party establishment, and then listen to them give him another thunderous standing ovation AFTER his Obama remarks. Would a predominately black audience have done that, if he had actually slammed Obama, as the mainstream media twits on twitter are claiming? Really? Is that your final answer?

      There’s a reason the establishment is terrified of Bernie. He will end the consultant gravy-train, which operates like a shake-down racket. In one Texas primary alone, the DCCC’s candidate spent $800,000… and lost, to a progressive first-timer running without DCCC support or any name recognition (when she started) and she only spent $40,000 — she beat the DCCC candidate who outspent her twenty times over.

      But the DCCC consultants made a lot of money of their establishment candidate, win or lose. And that’s what this is really all about.

      1. you know who else has a straight diet of mainstream media nonsense and who won’t view the full video on anything and who will believe things based off the propaganda? The vast majority of the voting public. Pretending it doesn’t matter won’t make it actually go away.

        1. And your point is…? What?

          “Bernie people need to just STFU and accept that Bernie can’t win because the media lies” …?

          I’ve got good news for you — most people under age 55 who actually do VOTE are not watching the mainstream media. If they were getting their news from MSM, the recent Texas primaries would have turned out far differently. Instead, 20 of the 27 primary winners were Our Revolution candidates.

          Bernie 2020, baby. It’s happening.

          1. my point is that people will believe wrong things about Bernie, and us knowing they’re wrong won’t make much of a difference, unless we engage with those people, because they are the majority of voters. Wishful thinking and assumptions don’t amount to much real world change. A lot of people vote who still watch mainstream media. I don’t know how many exactly.

            Can I see your source for the stat on most people under 55 who also vote are not watching mainstream media? That sounds inflated. Also, does this study also include what they do watch? They may watch nothing, and just be completely uninformed, and still be under 55 and not watching mainstream media, or they may be watching any number of non-mainstream garbage media online.

    2. “You are waving off things you don’t like hearing about Bernie because you disagree with them. ”

      No, YOU are commenting as if the twitter-twits are accurately reporting what Bernie said. Whereas WE are aware that this twitter storm = fake news, because HE DID NOT SLAM OBAMA.

      See above.

    3. I think if MLK was alive today he’d probably be right along with Bernie on this issue. It’s a great play by the media to use distraction about a stupid optics issue and miss the entire point that Bernie makes, because it’s a valid point and they don’t want people thinking about what he’s actually saying. It’s a typical propaganda move and it’s very transparent. People like Bernie BECAUSE he isn’t a typical polished, do nothing politician.

  4. Hey Cenk, you said MLK is your hero but he was a Christian and had a lot of Faith and believed in God… you still want to make fun of the Bible, a book he read and believed in to be the truth? anyways, good show. BTW Bernie Sanders is a politician and they all lie and are in it for themselves. The moment progressives start getting big money donations, they will become just like the Dems and GOP… money corrupts.

    1. What is even your point there?

      Do you believe that we’re not allowed to disagree with our heroes? Do you not understand that they are flawed just like any other human?

  5. I wonder why the main show doesn’t just have a “Main Show” (i.e. not an Hour 1 and Hour 2).

    Really, I’m not complaining about a lack of a “second hour” as we used to know it. That is … “fun” stories. I often ignored it, but I many folks loved it. (to each their own).

    In fact, perhaps they should consider another regular show (doesn’t have to be daily) if folks want the “old” second hour stories. I don’t watch Pop Trigger, though. Perhaps this is more along the lines of what the second hour used to be ?

  7. @desimurgi

    What assholes like Jonathan Capehart, Jessica Valenti, Bakari Sellers, Chad Griffin, and Joy Ann Reid have in common is that they’re all making six figures a year and living the good life while the rest of us live paycheck to paycheck. They’re awful, selfish people who use identity politics as a weapon against working people. It’s a politically correct version of class warfare.

    1. That is exactly true. And the left needs to call it out for what is – a dagger to the backs of the working poor and wage earners.

    2. absolutely agree, but this is almost the single hardest thing to educate my fellow Dem friends about — I mean the older ones who are my age. They cannot accept that people like Joy Reid and Rachel Maddow could possibly have a down side. It’s not in older classic Dems’ DNA to go there. Does not grok.

      Quoting salary figures and pointing out that Comcast is one of the largest contributors/participants to the Koch network (read DARK MONEY by Jane Meyer) and trying to show the connected dots between employees of Comcast (Reid, Maddow, etc) doing propaganda on behalf of the folks who write them the big checks… I hit a wall of mental resistance. After all… Reid is black, and Maddow is a lesbian. How dare I suggest they are not progressive?

      1. It is hard and not really an issue only with older individuals, I have seen younger folk with the same attitude – a certain identity or even a D next to your name means all is great.
        Bernie and his team/ ideological allies can and will use messaging to counter these ideas, but that really is not the best case scenario. As someone who has seen a few instances of massive political change through mass movements, (I was raised in India) it is much too difficult if the people aren’t able to figure it out by themselves, without help from a leader. That is the essence of mass movements, where the people turn **themselves into the real force**.
        See, everybody irrespective of gender, race, caste, religion needs food first, a home first, good health, education that prepares you for a useful job and some savings for the future. It shouldn’t be that hard to figure that out cast a vote to help yourself.
        And I’m sure people eventually WILL come to that realization (I think the teachers’ strikes reflect that it is beginning to happen). Every country and culture goes through that realization after near complete destruction, and so will the US. But the longer it takes, the more suffering it will entail, and the more difficult it will be to rollback the effects of the economic violence perpetrated by the majority of today’s republicans and democrats

  8. With more than half the country one unforeseen thousand dollar expenditure away from a major economic crisis, Bernie’s economic message should be easy to accept.
    But EVEN that requires some minimum amount of self awareness from Democratic voter bases. If you don’t have the intellectual discipline to see what the non-delivering celebrity of your tribe is really doing to your life and your child’s life, you will continue further down the road of poverty, dispossession and exploitation.
    As a transgirl, it infuriated me everytime an NYT or WaPo scumbag tried to misrepresent Bernie’s record on LGBT rights. Or when a rich scumbag on MSBSC tries to use his gender identity as a gay person to slander Bernie and his supporters and blame them for 2016.
    Time to see if poverty and broken promises have taught America to deal with the Jonny Capeharts, Jessica Valentis, Bakari Sellers, Chad Griffins and Joy Ann Reids with an open handed slap.

    1. As a fellow trans girl, it also infuriated me when they tried to misrepresent Bernie’s history with the lgbtq + community. I’m sick and tired of the news and politicians using various groups, not just us, to further their agenda at the expense of the group that they are exploiting. Unless Bernie Sanders himself says something to change my mind I don’t believe what people say about him. I have to hear it from the horse’s mouth before I believe it. Which he’s one of the very few politicians that walks the walk and talks the talk. #Bernie2020

  10. I missed Cenk rants, but is it a real rant if the papers aren’t in your hands flying everywhere? Or a little spittle? Come on Cenk, we need that rawness. Great message though.

  11. thanks for covering the story about financial ties between estee lauder and far right propaganda groups. I’ve bought some of their makeup in the past, but they won’t be getting a dime from me in the future.

    1. The two hour show seems to have been cut partway into hour two. The hour one video covers the stories before Bernie’s.

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