Post Game March 1, 2018

In Post Game - On Demand by Gigi Manukyan31 Comments

Cenk and Ana have a philosophical baby conversation.

0 seconds of 28 minutes, 43 secondsVolume 90%
Press shift question mark to access a list of keyboard shortcuts
00:00
28:43
28:43
 

Comments

  1. Re: the consent question – it’s murky. That’s the problem. It’s uncomfortable because this gets into the gray areas of consent. I personally don’t think you need to ask at every single step every single time – unless you’ve never had a conversation about sex and boundaries before. I mean, me being who I am, that conversation would be had before anything more intimate than a kiss, so we’re clear. But that’s also with the hindsight of 15 – 20 more years of experience than I had when this would have mattered. Back when this would have been an issue, I was shy, I was scared, I was inexperienced and I didn’t know what I wanted or liked. It would have been better for me then to have someone take the lead, up to a certain point (ie, expressing discomfort should have been an immediate pause). Having said that, these days, someone doing that without prior discussion would feel super intrusive and gross to me. Hence, the conversation.

    But as I see it, the occasional check-in is just healthy for any relationship, any sexual encounter, even long term partners. There are things I’m into in a certain mood and not at other times. I mean, everyone has limits. It can be awkward, but I’d rather have an awkward conversation sober than a drunken fumble bordering on violation. It doesn’t have to be a business negotiation, it doesn’t have to be a signed contract. It can be a sexy fun conversation about what you enjoy and what you might be into trying with each other. But then if you’ve ever been exposed to BDSM, you begin to understand why clear communication is so important.

    Casual contacts are just case by case. But that doesn’t seem new to me? Same as before – people’s moods change. I guess I don’t assume that someone wants close contact unless there is a clear cue? People just generally don’t communicate enough – we talk a lot at each other, but we don’t necessarily communicate with.

  2. First part about ability of women to get pregnant – more like 12-24 hours for egg viability, but when combined with sperm viability in fertile-quality cervical fluid, you can get up to 4 days on the long end (2-3 days is the most common). There are cases of 4-6 days, and in labs, sperm have survived for up to 11 days in fertile quality conditions. It’s an interesting thought that timing/position could make a difference. I mean, maybe? But also maybe not. Philosophically, I think souls are what they are, and they aren’t dependent on which sperm makes it.

    That said, I’m going to push back on the rhythm method mocking. If you mean just following a calendar, yeah, that’s dumb. Too many factors in a women’s cycle can throw off ovulation enough to make a calendar useless (illness, stress, change in diet, exercise, etc). But you follow natural family planning (or the sympto-thermal method of ovulation tracking, with or without supplemental testing like ovulation predictor kits or ferning in saliva), it’s highly accurate. It requires learning a lot about the reproductive system and (unless you are against birth control), a barrier method of birth control until you have charted a few cycles. But as someone who can’t use pretty much any form of birth control other than condoms (and who wants to use condoms all the time), I successfully avoided pregnancy for many years by charting. Even now, though I don’t do the whole temping thing, and just rely on symptom tracking and opks, I’ve not been pregnant since my son was born. Bonus – if you follow this method of birth control, it sets you up quite well for trying to conceive later – in that you just change when you have sex and can maximize your odds immediately. And with all the apps, it only costs you the price of a digital thermometer.

    It’s super unfortunate that people generally, but especially women, are not well educated in regards to their reproductive systems. I saw it over and over in my ttc years – women getting super frustrated at not getting pregnant quickly or easily without understanding anything about their cycles, or how hormonal birth control might have impacted their fertility. It was literally just a lack of education. Very frustrating to see. It’s totally possible to teach kids about how it all works and emphasize safe sex, rather than relying on charting or assumption to avoid pregnancy.

  4. Trump thinks he would be like Negan in the Zombie Apocalypse. In fact, he would be like Eugene, except with 1/3 of Eugene’s intelligence, zero likeability and worse hair.

  5. Once again , another great post game with Cenk & Ana. Please continue with the excellent, honest discussions on complex issues. And also continue to keep it real and nuanced. Things aren’t simply black & white, people and the world are complex.
    Love your courage and your honesty

  6. I would think a shit load of communication would be helpful for both genders re: “rules”. And yes, in this day and age the woman can make the first move, make advances, etc., and can say to men, hey a hug would be great, or no kisses on the cheek, I prefer a shake of the hand. Mostly, men and women should take a moment to ask, to acknowledge times have changed, and what would they both prefer and are comfortable, and both reserve the right to change their minds, or whatever. Acknowledging things can sometimes really help out a budding relationship as well as a longtime friendships one is reestablishing.

    Communication is key, and everyone has to figure out how to communicate like adults. If a woman is feeling pressured she needs to learn enough communications skills to say, “This is moving way too fast.” Men need to make sure she’s into it, and can say, “Hey, you are you cool with this? “, or something of that nature. And if he feels like she’s waffling, it’s time to put some brakes on and ask. I know people say, “oh that ruins the moment”, but better that than a rape allegation later; the moment can be rekindled, if it is really meaningful; you can’t take back assault, even if you hadn’t meant to hurt the other person. And sorry for anyone who’s not a hetero., it’s just less complicated than going through all gender possibilities.

    Women have been taught to people please; not say no; and demure to authority, in our society, so this is definitely sometime women need to take notice of and learn how to speak up. Men need communication classes, how to listen to body language, how to ask questions, slow down etc., so both sides have much to learn. Once we get better about things we won’t always be limping along, men scared to even lift a hand, women unable to clearly articulate how they wish to be treated in a mixed gender society, we’re just having growing pains, a normal thing from a society that still needs to learn a lot from both genders.

  7. I’m on board with women pursuing men. If things are so complicated within potential heterosexual relations in these times, let the women take control.

  8. Dear @Ana!

    Vicious!
    Disregard for human life!
    No empathy!

    These are not human problems,
    They are culture problems,
    and America’s culture is one of the most vicious cultures.

    -source (prisons)

    just my 2c.

  9. Excellent Post Game! On the topic of real talk, rough stuff in intimate situations is an avenue for lots of folks and it’s great that for that kink in particular, communication is key. Spur of the moment choking and stuff, much more difficult and I’d suggest the unsexy suggestion of knowing each others ground rules as a point of clarity and perhaps even fun foreplay. Super glad to be out of the dating scene, it seems like a real mess these days. My lighter is in the sky for all you youngsters trying to figure it out. Best of luck btw!

    Additionally, I had coped tix to that play already for an April showing and was super glad to hear Ana and gang raving about it. Can’t wait!

  12. I believe we all have the potential for great goodness and also great evil. inside of us. The book Ordinary People and Extraordinary Evil captures this idea.

    But the good news is that if you recognize this about yourself and you are vigilant, which I believe that the TYT army is, THAT is how you hang onto your humanity and integrity in the worst of situations.

    Also, on the topic of consent, you can give non-verbal queues. I don’t think you need to verbally ask every step of the way, although if you’re uncertain of what your partner wants in anyway then you should. There is a clear difference between someone pulling away or going stiff and cold during a physical interaction verses leaning in, smiling, and being affectionate in response. I believe Planned Parenthood has some really good videos explaining this!

    I appreciate your open and honest conversation on both topics <3

  13. Last week I just saw two old guy friends that I haven’t seen in 20 years. I didn’t give them the chance to hesitate on a hug, but I don’t think they would have….

  14. Ana, is really on in this postgame.
    Cenk is wrong. The egg contains half the genetic code, and sperm share on average more than 50% of the same genetic code, so having sex an hour later would result in at most a 50% different human, more likely closer to a 10-15% difference.

    Further, I agree with Ana that not everything is in all of us. I don’t think everyone has it in them to survive or kill in all situations.

    2. @RichardDare Aside from the cultural expectation – because men are generally taller. It’s harder to execute when you are at a height disadvantage. I have this problem all the time.

  16. We’re viscous and terrible because we are the result of thousands of years of brutal competition for resources and millions of years of competition for mates. Not saying we can’t aspire to be better, just answering the question of why we suck. This is why we need a sustainable and equitable system so that we are not in competition with each other for survival.

  17. I knew when I heard one woman show it was gonna be Sarah Jones. She’s the shit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRgIGMwZd2o.

    I can’t comprehend being a sexual harasser. Like, I’m the dude that two months later when girl has a boyfriend and the option is no longer on the table she’s like “You were supposed ta fuck me that night.” Like, God dammit…

  18. Good Day to All,

    I am encouraged by TYT’s efforts to bring democracy back to the world. Taking money out of politics is a very important step, however I am concerned that no one addresses what I consider to be the most impactful policy AGAINST DEMOCRACY.

    The WINNER TAKE ALL policy employed by 48 of the 50 States in presidential elections is unconstitutional and it has a devastating impact on our democracy. I can show you how, in a 2 candidate race, it is mathematically possible for the candidate with under 30% of the vote to prevail against the candidate with over 70% of the vote.

    This WINNER TAKE ALL policy is ridiculous and it is not required by the Constitution. Just think for one minute of how crazy it is that our presidential candidates campaign for the top job and are able to totally ignore California, New York and Texas.

    The fact that California and New York are ignored in presidential elections has neutralized the PROGRESSIVE AGENDA in the United States.

    Please take the time to address this subject. If I am wrong then please take some time to explain to me why and how I am wrong.

  19. Great discussion and food for thought. I could not agree more with both Cenk and Ana. It is incredibly difficult to be a single guy (or a woman as a matter of fact) in this day and age. Often you wonder why would you even make a move when there is so much stigma attached to it. Just keep clear and mind your own business and avoid all the drama. You would be successful in your career and that is rewarding on its own.

  20. I disagree with Cenk and Ana toward the end that it might be hard for a single guy to know what the rules are these days. As a single guy, I don’t feel there’s a burden or some big new exotic rules that I need to follow. I never got a sense that anyone in the MeToo movement or on the Left is demanding that I act like a dork and ask for permission for a kiss in every situation. Using some common sense still seems to be the way to go.

    The discussion and awareness has rightly been on sexual harassment and sexual assault rather than some strict new rules of engagement between men and women. Please don’t waste time feeling sorry for single guys. We’ll live.

    1. Cenk and Ana are public figures and mingle with the like, so the issue is much more intensely magnified.
      But I would guess that about 1% of Cenk is glad he’s married while the other 99% wishes he were single so take his concern with a grain of salt..

      Cmon Cenk, keep it real!

  21. great postgame! these are really important issues.

    i have a couple of tangent thoughts:

    i think the #MeToo movement is awesome, and it’s about frickin’ time!

    but referring to what both Ana and Cenk touched on at the end, i truly hope that it does not discourage genuine, sincere, physical warmth and affection between friends–whether the same sex or opposite sex, regardless of orientation or gender–and also between parents and children and siblings. we in N America need more sincere, loving, (yet platonic) affection and warmth, not less, IMO.

    studies show that warmth and physical affection, as well as emotional support are integral to good health and longevity–it is part of the ‘community’ section of contributions to health and longevity. there have also been countless studies in all animals, not just humans and primates, where physically isolating young from others of their kind inhibits emotional and physical health—throughout their lives!

    it is obvious in mostly white, protestant/religious N America that physical warmth and affection is, and has been, discouraged, period, when compared to many other cultures. might it come from the historically dominant Puritanical religious influences early on in USA history? i don’t know…but i suspect so.
    does the lack of platonic warmth while growing up, encourage more deviant/abusive physical and mental behavior in future human relationships? would be interesting to know…
    (how much of an abuser’s mentality is determined genetically and how much is determined by early environment?)

    but i must say, studies aside, i also miss this more physical and emotional warmth terribly in my friendships here in the USA. (aside from my lover’s warmth i mean).

    when i lived in Mainland China for a year, i was struck by the wonderful habit of friends holding hands while walking down the street–two women/girls, or two men/boys— or having their arms around each other. totally platonic. would never happen here in USA. (unless there was a romantic relationship of course.)
    my platonic friendships abroad with people from other countries are ever so much more physically affectionate and warm, and close, than those here in the USA. (that could just be me, but i do observe this in others as well).
    or the awesome, accepting, physically warm and emotionally supportive relationships mothers often have with their daughters in many Latin countries–European and Central and South American. something that is often missing here in the USA.

    another manifestation of this topic applies to the workplace: i have had several Latino (should i say Hispanic? sorry if i have mis-stated) men and women work under me in the veterinary medical field, and have been consistently struck by the excellent warmth and open-heartedness (in a professional manner) both to me, and especially to the animals we all have had to work with. in my experience, it is rare to find this open-heartedness and natural ease and ‘instinctiveness’ in working with animals and humans in white/Anglo-saxon people. there seems to be something that stands in the way of being truly vulnerable and warm, for many white Americans.
    as a Caucasian, it’s not a ‘good/bad’ judgement from me, it’s just been my experience. and also my wish for more physical and emotional platonic warmth in general, here in the USA.

    anyway, i hope that healthy physical affection between friends (and lovers) increases in the long run from the #MeToo Movement, not decreases, despite this hopefully temporary setback that Ana and Cenk referred to regarding friendships–workplace or not.

  23. Now this is the conversation I’ve been waiting for. About ‘The Rules,’ which for centuries have been decided by the kind of powerful men we now label tyrants, misogynists and pedophiles. This especially applies to Hollywood.

    Pianist James Rhodes has just appeared on BBC’s Hard Talk to say that what has been done to so many cannot be undone in something so short as a few decades. He also said that because it indeed takes a few decades to begin the healing process of speaking out and replacing the old ‘Rules’ with new humane policies, the time is now to discard statutes of limitations that have always favored old tyrants and their protégés.

    Cenk mentioned being afraid due to not knowing what the new ‘rules’ are, and Ana mentioned being confused as well especially when it comes to what different women expect in their lives.

    This is fallout from centuries of tyrannical rule by crooked men and not a few fascist females in de facto power over well intentioned men, women and children. Confusion is to be expected as we begin to pull out of feudalism for real. Of course there are women and men that choose sadism and masochism, but a majority of that defeats, not builds, societies anywhere on this planet. Just because a few people are of the sort that praise and wish to emulate the Donner Party doesn’t make it okay for the rest of us to select that into society as normal.

    Now it is time for women like me, older and having varying degrees of experiences being victims of harassment and rape, to join with the well intentioned younger like Ana and Cenk to fashion not rules but POLICIES that are flexible enough to allow for various human professions while curtailing /selecting out self-deprecating, society disintegrating practices. Love and respect regardless of sexuality, color or background has got to be taken out of the hands of old ‘Rule-ers’ by We The People.

    This will be a 100-200 year process that should include eradication of old feudalistic laws and the introduction of new humane laws that put a stop to the kind of hypocritical cannibalization we’re still having to suffer through now.

Leave a Comment