Cenk. Hannity and Trump blaming Obama for not doing anything about the Russians. NRA foundation provided funding to train the shooter. Student rallies/protests/townhalls related to Florida shooting. Republican donor won’t donate more money until something is done about assault weapons. Focus group results: Republicans have bad agenda, Dems have no agenda.
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Comments
20:11 – 20:44
“Oh, I’m sorry, that was Al-Qaeda”. This was perhaps the finest political and heartfelt comment, unfortunately it was directed towards the none listening and the uncaring and I don’t mean your audience.
So now MSNBC and all other MSM outlets are using Mueller’s indictments to go after Bernie Sanders. The Establishment Democrats are blaming Bernie for Hillary’s defeat.
Jimmy Dore warned you all. Being a neocon commie red scare propagandist is coming back to bite you – assuming of course, you support Bernie Sanders. Which I probably have no business assuming at this point.
I hope you are happy, Cenk. Now let’s see how you try to rein in that #RussiaGate Godzilla rampaging across the progressive Left – the monster you helped create, the narrative and the phobia that you fed and stoked for half of every 1st hour for the past year.
Thanks.
The establishment democrats have been blaming Bernie for Hillary losing since Hillary lost.
Of course the majority of the TYT on-air staff supported and still support Bernie and candidates similar to him.
In reality, the truth about russian interference is somewhere in between what MSNBC says and what FOX “News” says. I actually think that Cenk has done a great job of finding that middle point.
Cool it, plz.
The attacks on Bernie had been centred around his having stayed in the race too long and/or failing to campaign hard enough and long enough for Hillary. And, to a certain extent, they also claimed that his attacks on her about Wall Street gave Trump too much fodder to use against her in the general.
Now we are talking treason. Now we are talking useful idiot. Now we are talking about how Bernie’s poor benighted “supporters” were duped into following Bernie because, RUSSIA! This is a far more insidious attack, because it posits that those who supported Bernie and/or refused to vote for Hillary did so not because they actually believed in those policies or because they had developed a sense of political ethos and a cogent set of principles – no. They did so because they were TRICKED BY THE RUSSIANS.
This breathes new life into the old attack about fairy dust and unicorns – i.e., no one in their right mind and free of “Russian influence” would have ever supported Bernie, and the Russians were the ones who convinced people to stay home in November. This basically takes the Free Pass that the Democrats had fashioned for themselves and covers it in gold leaf and emeralds. No way was ANYTHING their fault, and, as Nancy Pelosi said, “no one wants change.”
Cenk has NOT done a great job about finding that middle point. He has gone full-on MSNBC with the Russiagate scandal. There is so much news that is NOT being covered, yet Cenk chooses to spend 20 min every day on what MSNBC covers for 200 min every day. As if we needed more coverage about Russia, or more evidence about how stupid Trump and his team members are; or how corrupt. These are all series being covered ad nauseum in the MSM. I tune in to TYT to hear about the very vitally important stories that the MSM is NOT covering.
Regarding that “middle” point: what is that exactly? No – the proper middle point is what Kyle Kulinski, myself and others have been saying all along: is Trump corrupt? Yes. Did he do shady/dirty deals with the Russians? OF COURSE! Did the Russians influence the outcome of the election? NO FUCKING WAY.
The SM and the Dems are moving the goal posts – we went from the hacking of the DNC and the “weaponisation” of emails to a few Facebook ads and Twitter feeds – and an indictment that claims they were significant, as if it was that fly fart on the tornado that blew the roof off.
The Democrats – with the hep of Cenk – are pushing us towards a massive defeat in 2018, and more importantly, towards WWII. You may disagree with me, but that is my fervent belief. If you believed that this was happening, would you be willing to “cool it”?
Did you watch the debate between Cenk and Kyle Kulinski regarding Russia? I did. I reviewed it in a two part Twitter thread:
Part 1:
https://twitter.com/i/moments/961175218915106816
Part 2:
https://twitter.com/i/moments/961177053503647744
Those two Twitter Moments pretty much break it down in terms of how silly – and yet how dangerous – Cenk’s position is.
It was a lose-lose proposition that we’d have to fight from the get-go. Ignore or dismiss Russia, and people accuse you of having your head in the sand. Promote it, and people use it to attack Bernie.
We can’t kowtow to fear of attack or we’ll get nothing done. We need to counter the attacks as baseless and promote our own narrative.
Cenk is making the best of a bad situation. Don’t blame Cenk for attacks by trolls; he doesn’t control the bots. They would have come anyways. It’s like blaming Gore for global warming, pretending if Gore never mentioned it, global warming would never have come.
Kulinksky and Cenk barely disagreed in that debate, except in what they thought the other believed.
I thought they disagreed greatly. Cenk wanted to make a big deal about all the things they agreed on, and in the he was successful. But there are some big differences in not just what they believe, but in how they address the whole issue.
Cenk spends roughy 1/2 of each episode on Trump. Why? He seems to devote the (slight) majority of airtime on every topic addressing conservatives: browbeating them, criticising them, or trying to convince them.
As a progressive, I feel short-changed. There is a military/security complex coup going on, and TYT is not talking about it. How many TYT viewers know that the US is now going to stay in Syria indefinitely, and why? How may TYT viewers know about what is really going on in Ukraine? The Baltics? How many know what bills are being voted on and defeated in Congress? How many know who HR McMaster is and what he is doing?
How many are aware of the massive strategic PIVOT that the US has now made to turn AWAY from fighting terrorism and instead to concentrate on “great power adversaries” as Mattis calls them? Has TYT covered the new National Defense Strategy document that was published a few weeks ago, naming Russia and China as our main focus for military strategy?
NO – TYT has only covered North Korea but then ONLY BECAUSE TRUMP TWEETS ABOUT IT.
Everything else that the Trump Regime is doing – quietly, under the radar, with no notice from Trump and no exposure in Trump’s TL – goes unnoticed and uncovered.
Perhaps the largest disagreement that Cenk and Kyle had was over the relative importance of the Trump/Russia issue. There has been no hard evidence provided, and yet Cenk spends an inordinate amount of time on it.
I am sad to say that TYT has let itself become just another knee-jerk puppet of the Trump administration and the Right Wingers who are pulling the strings – all Trump has to do is write an outrageous and/or stupid Tweet about something, and it will guarantee him 30 min of coverage on TYT.
Twelve minutes into yesterday’s show, I cannot believe what top “news” re Muellers indictments is. I’m willing to bet mainstream outlets are making the same point. Focus on the indictments themselves. Sigh?
When it’s a constant war over the basic facts, what do you have to build on? Where do we see ourselves in 10,20,30 years with propagandists on FoxNews and politicians like McConnell still in the picture?
Why didn’t Cenk cover the real reason behind this change of heart among republican donors, the fact that the median household income for the family of a typical student in the Parkland School was $200k and that virtually all the students belonged to the 1%ner class.
People think that the 1%ers go to private schools. Well that is not true, the 1%ers use lax state education laws to create their own public school districts that they get to control and their children study for free at the hands of the best teachers available.
Sandy Hook changed nothing because as Johnny Pie noted years ago it was in one of the poorest white areas in CT and therefore there was no reason to care.
Pardon me for being off-topic, Sec, but my membership is about to run out. So I just wanted to say: I really enjoyed all those debates we had (though there weren’t so many in recent months, simply because of my self-imposed absences). I really enjoyed them and I learned a lot from you.
Due to my growing list of grievances with TYT (mainly as a private organization and over its editorial direction, but people-wise there is much to be reproached too), I’m letting my yearly subscription lapse. There are better things to spend money on.
So I am outta here. I wish you the best of luck in everything, and while I don’t think anyone should hang around this place for too long, it is gratifying to me to think that you’ll be hanging around for a while – because then at least there will be some real debate.
Good luck
P.S. Since there is no private messaging system here, I am forced to inject this into a random thread. And since I don’t know whether you have your email notifications turned on or not, I’ll be injecting it into several threads, for good measure. Apologies in advance for the spam, it’s force majeure.
“how much money do you owe him?” Ok…
“what kind of tapes does he have on you?” What.
donnie tiny hands probably did financial crimes – we can all agree on this- but this other subjecture about tapes and shit. Please stop channeling Maddow. I know you know better…
Have you seen how absurd of a person Trump is. Tapes of him doing some embarrassing shit are very possible.
Financial crimes as well.
I concur
All of this is just ridiculous parkland is close to home for me and regardless of this is a issue we must face the right days that new gun laws won’t change anything ! But you can’t know or assume until you try this is not just only a mental health issue! This is a gun control issue we need to attempt to do something than nothing! We have to secure our society, our children! But the government is to busy receiving money from the NRA! What a disgust
Has the place to download the audio for the hours moved, or is it just gone?
I hate to pile on because the people of TYT do a great job but could we please get links posted here as well?
Cenk claims that Germany has not many guns in circulation. That is true in comparison – we have a third of the guns per resident when compared to the USA (30 to 101 guns per 100 residents) – but we’re still among the top nations (Rank 13) and above world average (10). However, our rate of gun-related deaths is 10 times lower.
rank | guns per 100 residents | Firearm-related deaths per 100,000 residents
01 | 101 | 10.5 – USA
08 | 031 | 01.8 – Norway
09 | 031 | 02.8 – France
10 | 031 | 02.0 – Canada
11 | 030 | 02.6 – Austria
13 | 030 | 01.0 – Germany
18 | 024 | 03.0 – Switzerland
20 | 024 | 00.9 – Australia
00 | 010 | ??.? – World average
82 | 006 | 00.2 – UK
deaths include accidents, homicides and suicides
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
Arguably the difference is not just due to the mere number of guns but the surrounding restrictions. I’ll try to outline our restrictions but there are small (!) variation throughout our states so this might be not 100% true everywhere in Germany:
We have to take a theoretical and practical course (approx 2 weeks full time or 10-weekend sessions) and a consecutive test focusing on gun-safety and the law. Furthermore, a need for a gun and a proven reliability need to be demonstrated. Every gun also needs to be registered, approved and can be taken away if you fail to continue to meet the requirements. Theft must be reported and the circumstances of the theft will be investigated.
The need for a gun can be proven by:
1. Membership in a gun club and active participation in tournaments
2. A hunters licence (another long and expensive course)
3. Being collector of a specific field
4. Extraordinary need for protection
(rarely ever granted, usually in combination with a job in security.
E.g. bodyguards of high risk persons, drivers of money transporters, civilian guards of military or other sensible facilities)
1-3 also corresponds to the different kinds of permits (Waffenbesitzkarte)
while 4 is the only carry permit (Waffenschein).
Each permit comes with restrictions to which kind of guns you may obtain as well as how many:
1. Sports shooters may only buy guns that they need to participate in their registered disciplines.
The number is restricted based on the disciplines you’re participating
magazines are limited to 10 max but also dependend on you’re disciplines
2. Hunters may only buy semi-auto rifles and with small (typically 2 shot) magazines in certain calibres. And up to 2 handguns for self-protection (Fangschußwaffe)
3. The field needs to be specifically defined (like: Russian infantry weapons from 1914-1917) and approved by the authoraties. This licence does not allow you to buy and keep ammunition, however you may shoot them with ammunition bought at the range.
4. usually only a handgun would be allowed
you may have multiple types of permits if you fulfill all the criteria and apply for them individually.
Personal reliability is defined as
– no criminal record
– no drug abuse record
– passing a pschologycal evaluation
– providing and using a safe storage place for the guns (either an approved safe at home or at the gun club), this may be controlled unanounced.
Getting a carry permit as a civilian is almost impossible and limited to case 4. If you transport weapons without a carry permit it needs to be in a secure and locked container and you may only do so on your way to/from the range/your hunting grounds.
Furthermore weapons of war (fully automatic, explosive devices …) are completely forbidden unless demilitarized (aka made permanently unfunctional) and there are also free weapons that anybody above the age of 18 may buy, but not carry (gas guns, tasers, bows and crossbows, air guns, paintball/softair guns, etc) without special permit.
You may also keep inherited guns, but these need to be deactivated or locked if you do not have the proper permit and you may not buy or keep ammunition as well.
All in all I like our System. It takes a long time to get a gun and you have to invest quite a bit of money. But in the end you can get what you need for your specific purpose. Also the training is well-rounded and focused on safety and law. If you’re a Member of a club you may shoot with little investment with the club guns or guns of other members as young as 14 years old. But only if supervised and on the range.
Glad to see I am not the only European around here.
France has more firearms-related deaths. This might be because France is a key-point in trafficking and because hunting is a widespread activity. I will have to look into that.
JodiR woot keep the sourceless slander coming…..you must be a very stable genius!
But what about their right to bear arms ? What about everybody’s right to send their kids to school without the fear they won’t come home.
Surely pro-life activists will lead the march against weapons, for all the kids in school, Sandy Hook should be their battle cry
Brilliant and probably not ever going to happen and I was not a cynic until Trump.
jodiR when did Bernie ever take money from the NRA. He has always only taken small money donations and is totally in favor of gun control
JodiR is a troll, probably on Correct the Record’s anti-Bernie payroll.
This is what I am talking about when I say that Bernie people are turning into Hillary people and it scares me. You guys are going to be as much of a roadblock in a great man being elected as Hillary people were to her.
JodiR may be a troll or may be a person that was given information from seemingly reliable sources that Bernie and his team and have never properly countered. I know why he didn’t vote for the bill and hasn’t taken NRA money, the average voter does not and the fact that Bernie has a bad habit of not addressing these issues against him. He has answers but his messaging sucks.
Why were so many non white people taken in by the fact that Bernie didn’t care about them? Because he never properly addressed this issue. He never came out and said x, y, and z policy of mine will address racism in America because they address issues that negatively impact non-white Americans more than any other group.
When faced with the fact that he voted down what looked like a good bill he never said “I supported the gun part of the bill but not the fact that it would throw more non violent offenders in jail and feed the private prison system”.
He does not address issues clearly and it will hurt him. And then Bernie supporters come in and do EXACTLY what Hillary supporters did and just declare “oh you don’t love Bernie you are a ____” in this case troll. Some of them are, some of them are concerned citizens with valid issues that they don’t realize Bernie has come down on the right side of because Bernie and his team fail to get the message out. YOU have a chance to help fix that gap and instead what do you do… call them trolls.
So good job, being dismissive of people served Hillary well and I am sure it’s going to do wonders for Bernie. Keep on keeping on.
As a Bernie supporter it is disappointing and scary to watch what most of us have become.
Tammylroberts20: In 1990, Sanders won his first federal office as a representative for Vermont while running partly in opposition to early versions of the ‘Brady Bill’, though he did support the assault weapons ban.
The ‘Brady Bill’ was nicknamed after the Secret Service officer who took a bullet to the head and sustained severe brain damage while defending Ronald Reagan from assassination via .22 pistol. The bill instituted mandatory ‘cooling off’ waiting periods for gun purchases, something that would not actually have prevented the assassination attempt. The ‘Brady Bill’ was opportunistic posturing rather than principled legislation, but it passed anyway.
Sanders’ romance with the NRA was short-lived and apparently confined to independent expenditures on issue advertising, not direct political campaign contributions to Sanders. I believe Sanders was never again backed by the NRA, though I have not checked that in depth. His subsequent grade from the NRA has bobbed around between C- and D- for decades.
Web search “Sanders won over gun rights groups by promising to oppose one bill they hated — a measure that would establish a waiting period for handgun sales” and you will find countless web sites with the story. The articles are almost exclusively critical of Sanders regardless if the group overtly supports gun regulation or not.
These publications seek to portray Bernie as inconsistent and hypocritical due to his unwillingness to support opportunistic law ‘n’ order gun legislation that also promotes mass incarceration, private prisons, three strikes mandatory sentencing, stop ‘n frisk, broken windows policing, etc. in other words they are trying to hang him with his own principles for opposing counterproductive legislation that does not achieve its stated aims.
Bernie also came out in opposition to gun manufacturers being held financially/criminally liable for gun violence in federal legislation (supposedly modeled on bartenders being held liable for drunk driving) because he understandably holds people accountable for their own actions, not for the actions of others. Gun buyers are not typically raving drunks who are obviously chemically impaired to the point of incompetence when they purchase a gun, though IMO one could rationally argue that a theo-fascistic partisan might qualify as deranged and/or dangerous enough to deny a gun purchase.
Bernie makes nuanced arguments about farmers in rural Vermont owning guns for entirely different reasons than city dwellers on the coast (pest control vs. criminal activity and crimes of passion) when voting down what he deems ineffective federal legislation that only hurts the cause of gun control by playing into right-wing paranoia of liberals.
The right-wing bots and corporate establishment clones keep trotting out this NRA dead horse to beat Bernie with every time he runs, trying to destroy his credibility with progressive voters and suppress voter turnout. Try this:
https://www.teaparty.org/nras-support-helped-elect-bernie-sanders-congress-1990-108714/
for a refreshingly honest history on the issue from the Tea Party, aside from their obvious right-wing slant to their interpretation of the politics. For the establishment take try:
hxxps://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-the-nra-helped-put-bernie-sanders-in-congress/2015/07/19/ed1be26c-2bfe-11e5-bd33-395c05608059_story.html
(replace the x’s with t’s in the url — sometimes comments with multiple links die in moderation here). Note that even the ‘liberal’ (ha) Post claims that Sanders’ campaign position, and later his vote, against the opportunistic ‘Brady Bill’ was itself an opportunistic vote by him rather than principled.
Sander’s own web site currently does not even list gun control as an issue he is actively engaged with, so claims that he is rabidly pro- or anti- gun or even inconsistent on the issue, are simply red herrings that ignore his long-standing and steadfastly principled rational stance that he feels no need to defend on the merits:
hxxps://berniesanders.com/issues/
One of the arguments that Clinton’s troll farm ‘Correct the Record’ dredged up for the 2016 Democratic Party primary election was Bernie’s alleged pro-gun stance. CTR were spamming the TYT Youtube comments with this tripe/trope throughout the primary.
No more votes for either Democrats or republicans that take NRA money. Why did Bernie have to take NRA money? I keep having an argument in my head about this and if he runs again in 2020 I don’t think I can vote for him again.
Oh no… not sure where you heard that. that isn’t true. it is true that he voted against a bill that included gun control, but had other toxic legislation in it. I’ve seen something recently about that. He is pro sane gun laws and pro AR15 ban. Everyone please keep in mind a ban on AR15 must include everyone except publicly appropriated militia (the army). NO PRIVATE SECURITY FIRMS. Bernie is not anti gun, to be clear. Anti gun will not work, the world as a whole will have to become far FAR more peaceful before that happens. Guns will cease to be without legislation as long as hotter heads don’t prevail this… uhhhhhhhh… ridiculous purge of our former selfish, frightened, insecure, and therefore aggressive selves.
thanks for paying to troll here, JodiR.
You have not had any “arguments in your head” — and I doubt you voted for him before, so no fear of your voting for him “again.” (A few hundred thousand spent by Russia on FB ads pales in comparison to the MILLIONS that Correct the Record spent — and continues to spend — to slander Bernie. CTR and the Clinton Political Machine is a far bigger threat to American Democracy than any foreign government, at this stage.)
Bernie once voted against a bill that had provisions which would have caused serious hardship for small town Vermont gunshop owners. He did this on behalf of his constituents. Imagine that — a politician who represents the people who elected him. Amazing. That one vote is the only reason his NRA rating is not “F” (I think its D-minus).
Surprised you did not trot out the tired old lie that Hillary said on the primary trail — that New York criminals were traveling to Vermont to buy the assault weapons used in crimes in NYC. Totally bogus bullshit. But then… she had nothing based on fact to attack him with, so she went for it.
But again… thanks for paying the 10 bucks. TYT appreciates it.
No way these second amendment cry babies would ever allow/stand for a microchip in their guns.
Where is today’s Rebel Headquarters?
I think we should start a conversation about tracking firearms into gun free zones. Any gun that enters a gun free zone would initiate tracking and local police would be notified. Fines would apply. I’m for more metal detectors. Is there magnetic technology or other tech that can jam guns in gun free zones?
Can’t carry on watcing live broadcast at 10:00 p.m. PACIFIC TIME ….. WTF.
Where did the Franken segment go?
I think the article TYT was referencing in that segment retracted their claims.
When I read that schools in the US have ‘shooter drills’ where they practice hiding, turning off lights and locking doors. Its crazy people have to grow up with that type of fear. Hopefully this movement does not run out of steam.
Cenk, the DNC’s willing to fight for immigration reform because many big businesses want it. They may attack it from the Identity Politics angle, but it’s really about what their donors want (say it with me OF COOOOOOOOOORRRSEEE).