TYT Hour 2 January 31, 2018

In The Young Turks Hour 2 - On Demand by Gigi Manukyan163 Comments

Cenk & Ana. Palestinian man who lived in US for 40 years deported. CDC director resigns after buying tobacco stock. Ken Bone comments on Trump’s “clean coal” SOTU mention. Stormy Daniels deflects questions regarding affair on Kimmel show.

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  1. They aren’t all bought….progressives aren’t…Bernie Sanders isn’t….

    And just because both sides are bad doesn’t mean that one isn’t worse…
    Would you rather have the flu or Cancer?

    Because that is what this administration is….
    You think that when people threaten civil war we should just give in to them? We have lost all sense of democracy and it has turned into a bully authoritarian mess.

    And what happens when Trump does loose the next election? What happens when he gets impeached? We gave him a platform and he has poisened people against the media, against the FBI, and against each other…
    He has opened national parks and shorelines for drilling and pipelines, he backed us out of the Paris climate agreement, and he is going to try his hardest to build a wall across the bottom part of our country….
    Irreversible damage

    And your argument is that Hillary would have caused divisiveness? Well congratulations because Trump has well done that….
    He has demonize the Democrats and liberals and progressives while saying he wants us all to work together…. It’s bull crap!
    He has torn through our country our policies our environment, and is trying his best to tear through our democracy…

    But you go on and keep insulting my intelligence…
    Once again I’m not sure if you are Republican but you have some very key attributes of one…

    One of which is to not be able to have a conversation with someone without insulting their intelligence or calling them names over and over again….

    You’re on a tyt feed where 98% of the people that watch this show Absolutely disagree with you….
    So I guess we must all be stupid… Or uneducated….

  2. I’m not sure how you can claim Trump is incompetent when he’s literally ripping this country apart…
    He’s already passed huge tax cuts for the rich, giving away 85% of federally protected lands to uranium mining, open Arctic protected lands Alaskan lands our Southern Seas to oil drilling…
    Do you need me to go on?

    He’s corrupt in a way that we’ve never seen before…
    His complete and utter lack of caring about his reputation…. He doesn’t care that he’s lying and people can prove it…

    He doesn’t care that every decision he’s making can easily be drawn back to a donor company that benefits from it

    Rolling back regulation after regulation That was supposed to be there to protect the American people…

    because that’s the thing that dumbasses like you don’t realize…
    Trump is just a puppet… He does whatever the RNC tells him to do…

    And right now they are ripping our country in two

    Just admit it you made a mistake!

    You look like a complete imbecile by still trying to justify this
    He was not the lesser of two evils…
    He is a threat to our democracy and our country every day that he is president and possibly even after that now that he’s grown a following…

    Anyone that voted for Trump that isn’t a racist xenophobic bigot made a mistake…
    Admit it and get on helping us fix this problem

  4. A couple of honest admissions can make all this easier, both on part of TYT and it’s viewers. The rant was stupid, full of strawmen and not really worth addressing (and Ana’s was the stupidest I have heard from her), but if you put all this activism – new unsold and hence reliable media – third party – money out of politics together, it probably makes sense to admit the following and set reasonable expectations.

    Imagine this from Cenk Uygur:

    1) I am not a revolutionary or a political leader. I am a media businessman. *** Having a successful business, growing it and achieving sustainability will be always more important to me than getting money out of politics or seeing single payer healthcare in US.*** My primary concern is the job security of John, Ana, Irma, Gigi, Edwin and others in TYT, being a good father and provider to my children. Taking even marginal risks of this business failing financially is an absolute non-starter.
    2) Membership does not nearly provide sustainability. It is not enough money, and more than anything else, uncertain over a period of time. We have to rely on Youtube revenue. It’s just how this business works.
    3) To maximize youtube returns, we will need to focus on stories that do well with youtube’s search algo. Hence one segment and mention of Clinton campaign’s complete buyoff of the DNC, none on MSM’s subsequent spin on it, but multiple over Stormy Daniels and Trump. If we put Congress’ dangerous behavior over Russiagate in perspective (NATO buildup on Russia border, permanent engagement in Syria, arming rebels in Ukraine, crackdown on social media and independent news all the way to actually using red scare to subpoena political dissidents and even comedians), it limits our ability to spend more segments on another highly searched news item, so that is also out of question. Logically connected topics that are direly important like FISA re authorization without amendments will also need to be underreported.
    4) Given all of this, is there a reasonable expectation from us being a reliable and honest source of political commentary ? Will it still be possible to trust us on the matter of being a platform for progressive political activism ? I think so.
    Our compromises for stabilizing and growing the business still leave enough room for improvement over the current state of political media. We may not be able to cover every topic or progressive priority with 100 % fairness but we can stay viable, grow a larger presence and throw our weights behind good progressive causes fairly frequently, and maybe one day, with enough influence shape the overall media narrative in a more progressive manner. Nobody can work in an environment of permanent uncertainty, and if the business goes belly up, nobody wins. That’s realpolitik. And in any case, you are free to exercise your own judgement if you think we’re being fishy. I’m not your Mom, you know ?

    Donno about the rest here, but this kind of a thing will make a whole lot of sense to me.

    1. desimurgi….Now, that is what I call a thoughtful comment. I get that Cenk and Ana must get the grief of the west coast libs (who feel tyt’s Bernie support brought us Trump)…well,…too fucking bad, grow a pair and move on!

  5. I found TYT around this time last year and it was a goddamn breath of fucking fresh air from the absurd mainstream media that treated Trump like he even remotely deserving of respect. I watch this show because of the way Trump is covered here, and specifically for the good choice of stories and the hosts who are open and upfront about their opinions. I became a member for a year and I’ll be doing the same again, please keep doing what you’re doing. And if people are demanding to silence opinions that they disagree with, I think it says a lot more about them than it does about the show.

  6. Cenk, when you fell in line after the primaries and campaigned for HRC, I understood your point completely. I got it. I still didn’t vote for her. I wasn’t angry with you and others for supporting her.

    I still didn’t vote for her. I voted for Stein. I voted for Stein in ’12, as well. In ’12 I was still a Democrat. By ’16, I was a Green Party member; that happened the day after that debacle of a Democratic convention ended.

    I got it. If there was a chance in hell that Trump could take my state of Oregon, I probably would have bellied up to the toilet and puked my guts out while I voted for Clinton. There wasn’t, though, so I didn’t, and I was right.

    As a citizen, if I’m voting for issues, for “policy positions,” I’m voting for the best positions without regard for partisan politics. People who vote for lesser evils enable our dysfunctional, corrupt 2-party system, in my view. Stein, while not a shiny celebrity nominee from the establishment “only we can win” parties, had, and has, better policy positions than both the major party nominees.

    The way to change that is for a critical mass of people to quit voting lesser evils. Meanwhile, everyone who plays that game is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

  7. Isn’t the only reason Jill Stein had “no chance of winning”, voters choosing Clinton over her? Why are people voting for B instead of A responsible for A not being president, but somehow A voters are not responsible for B not being president? At the end of the day, everyone eligible to vote has 1 voice, not more, not less. You can vote early, maybe, but polls are not votes – each and every individual that hasn’t voted at any point in time can change their opinion at any point in time until the vote is cast or the polls are closed. The person you’re arguing with at any given point in time doesn’t have more or less of a vote than anyone else, but for some reason we expect that particular person to be able to change their opinion while we see every other vote as fixed according to the polls… It’s an insane system and you know it is. It is inherently arrogant (objectively), it kind of assumes that “we” (whoever “we” are) can “game” the system, can vote tactically based on polling, but for whatever reason, whoever isn’t part of “we” can not – as we’re somehow smarter than everyone else. And by the way, why is there a different standard for Ken Bone as compared to the TYT audience? Actually I think that “tactical voting” is part of manufacturing consent/ a “main stream”…

    1. I should point out that I supported Hillary in the general not because I think she had the better chance of winning, but because I honestly thought she’d be a better president than Stein… In fact, there weren’t 2 very, very bad candidates in 2016, but actually 4 very, very bad ones… Not the same, none of them, but all of ’em bad…

  8. I think Cenk and Ana are frustrated because they have explained their thoughts on voting for Hillary over Jill Stein in the general election numerous times, and they are constantly accused of not being progressive enough because they are covering the shit show that is American politics right now.

    On another note: am I the only one who was highly amused by Cenk using the word shiggles – especially while he was frustrated?

  9. I think it would be good if you had a quick 10 min rundown of the stories you couldn’t cover in depth. Sometimes you only get to 3 or 4 stories in an hour which isn’t much. Occasionally I’ll watch Phillip DeFranco and think, “Wow, this guy covered more in 15 minutes than TYT did in an hour!”

  10. I don’t like to comment a lot, but I will just to show solidarity with the TYT crew here. Its so easy for people in the shadows to take suckerpunches and nitpick you to death, but let them put their manifesto on display daily.

  11. I hope someone from TYT reads this,

    First, I want to say that I appreciate all the hard work that TYT puts into their shows. They offer an honest, sincere, and nuanced perspective on issues and news stories. I respect that there are differing opinions within the organization and they can still coexist without censorship. Anyone who claims that Ana and Cenk are Hillary supporters don’t know what their talking about.

    RE: The Rant

    The fact that Trump made it to the general election indicates severe and fundamental issues with American society that can no longer be ignored. Furthermore, America deserves him. If you think long term for what’s best and what will cause least amount of damage , Trump is the lesser of two evils. Even if starts a nuclear war with NK, which would be catastrophic, I believe he would still (long term) be the better choice. I believe, that if the corporate establishment would have won the last election, it would have paved the way for a transition into Neo-Nazi Germany situation. Just look at all the Neo-Nazis that are now coming out of the woodwork these days. You don’t think after several more years of the corporate establishment rule there wouldn’t be stronger support than there is now? Trump is the wake up call that is long over due. A Hillary presidency would’ve just aided in ushering in an ultra-fascist regime that I don’t think could be stopped. Whomever that would’ve been, would have been a lot smarter than Trump and would be much more dangerous. Some may not agree but I do think it is that bad.

    The reason for criticism from the AP/Secular Talk crowd regarding the perceived excessive Trump coverage has merit. We want to reform the Dems so we’re not in the same situation in 2020 as we had in 2016. As the Dems continue to refuse reform, I think some see this as a missed opportunity to better use the platform that TYT has. Having said that, TYT should absolutely report on Trump when important. It’s just, when I see Trump/Russia stories that amount to circumstantial evidence (although still entertaining), I feel that time could be better spent on other stories. By not concentrating more on stories about corporate Dems you’re not fixing the route cause of the problem. I know that you guys do stories on them, but it’s similar to Hillary’s campaign strategy. “At least I’m not Trump” which doesn’t actually offer a desirable alternative. That strategy is reactionary and I think most would prefer something a little more proactive. I think that turns some off. It was pretty disappointing to be told to ”Fuck Off”, especially because we’re on the same team with the same goals. Hope that doesn’t alienate too many of the AP/Secular Talk crowd.

    Cenk, you’re absolutely right about how little organization there is amongst progressives in terms of institutional infrastructure. TYT and the network is probably the most established and the leader amongst progressives.

    Look, is Jimmy a little over invested in the “no evidence Russia” thing? At this point, yes. Does he have a point though? Yes. Will he accept solid and undeniable evidence of crimes of treason between Trump and Russia? I would think yes. I think he is right to point out that we need to fix the left, whether that be the Dem party or form another party, in order to have a chance to win in the future and have real progressive change and not just deferring back to how things have. He is right about Jill Stein, if progressives voted their conscience instead of voting out of fear, we would have an actual progressive Dem party today.

    My 2 cents.

    Still love and support all at TYT.

    1. “Even if starts a nuclear war with NK, which would be catastrophic, I believe he would still (long term) be the better choice.”

      Jesus Christ.

      1. Yes, that conceivably better than neo-Hitler with the power of the current American military power at his disposal. Can you at least agree to that?

        2. “Even if starts a nuclear war with NK, which would be catastrophic, I believe he would still (long term) be the better choice.”

          You sound exactly like a fkin right winger that lacks empathy. So yeh you think its a better choice long term EVEN if Trump starts a nuke war….because in your mind the citizens in NK are not rly people and it doesn’t affect YOU.

          If you dont have the ability to empathise with other HUMAN BEINGS in another country, because who gives a shit if Trump starts a nuclear war right, If it doesnt effect me??? GTFO Then your not a progressive and dont call yourself one as u dont seem to give a fk about how the consequences effects others

          1. sushimaster
            Suck my dick. You sound like a cry baby SJW who try to take things out of context. And no asshole, a neo-Hitler today would be worse long run than a war with NK. Regardless, it’s America’s fucking fault for letting it get this far.

            1. wow real mature mate. Sorry special snowflake did I hurt your feelings?

              I think you’ve been watching too many Alex Jones. and the fact that your using SJW and thinking its an insult shows the right wing rhetoric that you’ve sucked into. it may surprise you but people here are Social Justice warriors…….cause just like the name says we fight for social justice.

              And if you havent realised this is a progressive show so if you dont like it piss off.

              But I do have a show in mind that is more in your taste its called INFO WARS, but by the sounds of it you’re already an avid subscriber and listener for years

                1. @Maple – He’s not the one crass enough to act like the suffering and death of millions of innocent people is somehow acceptable. You are.

                  You seriously need to learn some basic empathy for others. Your comments here are disgusting, and your juvenile responses to facts you don’t like do you no favors.

                  1. mona_89
                    No one ever said or acted like that. You can pretend to read whatever you want. People like you push people right. You make whatever shit up in your head to confirm whatever basic argument you can understand because apparently you’re able to have a conversation.

                    I was simply making the argument that a Hillary presidency would have primed the way for an ultra fascist extremely dangerous future candidate. Not sure why anyone hasn’t refuted that, only they start crying that I said a nuclear war with NK would, in the ling run, cause less damage. Which, I believe it would. When did I ever say I wanted that to happen though?

                    You’re not interested in a solution or even hearing an argument. You just want to randomly freak out on people to make your self feel better. Grow up an fuck right off.

                    1. “People like you push people right.”

                      If you’re pushed to the right because others object to your acceptance of nuclear warfare and mass murder, you’re already lost. Don’t blame others for your own extremism.

                  2. No, I don’t let people like you push me right. However, I worry that you will to others. I’ve never advocated for nuclear war nor do I not have empathy for North Koreans if that were to happen. I’m just capable of abstract thought and forecasting possible outcomes had Hillary won the last election. Yes, I believe that the net damage would ultimately be greater down the road if we were to perpetuate the status quo. Your apparent authoritarianism evidently impairs you from that, or at the very least, understanding the logic behind that idea.

                    BTW- Cenk called out people like you in a post game (around feb 1-2). You’re not interested in an honest conversation. All you’re interested in is bitching. You drag the “progressive” label through the mud and are a stain on the left. Thanks for giving ammo to right wingers, that’s a big help for our cause as progressives.

    2. I simply can not believe that you think the Neo Nazis are coming out of the woodwork because of Hilary…

      You seem like a well-educated well spoken person…. Please pay attention more.
      The corporate establishment is not only the Democrats it’s the Republicans too. It’s the Republicans mostly!!
      When tyt talks about the corporate establishment they’re talking about everyone that takes bribes in donor money. Which very much so includes Trump… I don’t know how on Earth you think that he is separate from all of this. When he’s the worst swamp monster of them all… Making decisions solely because his donors benefit from them…

      Enriching the top 1% of America only…

      Trump is the worst candidate the worst president the worst thing that has ever happened to America…

      I remember Cenk always says the core of the Republican party is projection…
      I’m not sure who you align yourself with… But you are projecting right onto Hillary everything that Trump is doing to America.

      Even if Trump takes us into nuclear war with North Korea he’s still the better option for America…. That’s literally an insane thing to say.

      Start living in reality…
      God that just made me so mad…

      1. Why are so many of you incapable of critical thought?

        Will we learn nothing from history? How can you say Hillary would have improved that political climate and things wouldn’t get more hostile between the right and left? I’m sorry, but were the right wingers not threatening civil war if Hillary won? Or have all of you forgot about that?

        Hillary, herself, would not have actually been worse but she would have aided to the political/class divide and would create a future climate where someone far more dangerous than Trump would be elected. Now by getting this all over with, electing the populous fascist Trump, we can all wake up before it’s too late.

        “The corporate establishment is not only the Democrats it’s the Republicans too. It’s the Republicans mostly!!”
        They are all bought, that fact that you’re still choosing sides shows that you’re being a tribalist and unwilling to have an honest conversation.

  12. Cenk Uygur: “[…] YOU’RE WRONG! […]”

    People Holding Different Points of View from Cenk: “Oh, I never thought of it that way before. Thanks! I will now think the exact opposite of my previous considered opinion! So glad I watched your show! Otherwise I would have continued walking around with my own opinion, rather than yours. J/K, LOL.”

    Cenk, do you really think telling us we’re wrong rather than demonstrating HOW is going to convince anyone?

    I think the source of the disconnect here is that you’re assuming things different from what many Americans assume. I think you assume for example, that we need the very best president we can possibly have, even if that means picking the lesser of two evils. But some of your viewers by contrast think that if you have a choice only between two very bad choices, that the seemingly worse one is actually the better choice, because (in the case of Trump,) at least he’s incompetent. HRC would have been corrupt AND competent, which is actually far worse, in some ways.

    (YES, of course Trump is incredibly bad, and yes, there are some people who will suffer who would NOT have suffered under Clinton, but… the entire country needed Trump way more than Clinton.)

    America is POISONED, as a nation; Trump is an overdose of Syrup of Ipecac. Clinton would have been an overdose of Fentanyl. An overdose of Ipecac will make you feel like you’re dying, and probably make you hope you do die, if only to end the misery. An overdose of Fentanyl will absolutely, positively kill you without immediate action (w/ i.e., naloxone). America is going to spend a lot of time kneeling at the porcelain altar, throwing up all the poison, (both the ipecac AND all the shit she already ingested,) and the sooner the better. It’s going to hurt, it’s going to be incredibly gross, it’s going to make her cry, and her throat will be sore for days… she may even lose her voice, but she’ll probably live, (if, that is, she doesn’t die of a HEART ATTACK, which is a serious risk with that kind of overdose, or so I’ve heard). Clinton would have been a further dose of Fentanyl, to a nation already exhibiting symptoms of opioid overdose, i.e., depressed respiratory function, flat affect, and catatonia… Clinton would have probably ended this country, if not all life on Earth.

    At the end of the day, we took a bullet to the gut (Trump) which is immensely painful and will take a LONG time to recover from, IF we recover, but we avoided a bullet straight to the head (Clinton) which is more or less instantly fatal*.

    Rather than yell at your viewers how wrong we are, why not instead spend that time and effort working to get money out of politics, something I think we can all agree on and get behind, and something which, if it had ALREADY happened, we’d have never HAD a Trump versus Clinton Showdown of Nightmares in the first place.

    (* Yes, I’m aware not all GSW’s to the head are instantly fatal. It’s a fucking metaphor, damnit.)

  13. On the other hand – who said this was easy? Getting money out of politics
    calls for solidarity . This is power vs force – We are the power – all Trump
    has is force – We will prevail.

  14. Love, love, love TYT! Never lose the passion. Sounds like the cussing is back…

    P.S. that’s part of the passion.

  15. I went to the town hall to hear Jill Stein. Thank you TYT!
    I was conflicted until election day. Jill is not Bernie (obviously),
    I voted for her , hoping to get her funded. I live in CA
    Don’t trash me! Trash the system. The Dems had 16 years to correct – the
    Electoral College scam. The lowest part of my nature
    – kept repeating karma’s a bitch. I’m looking at you Clinton
    machine. What a joke – Hillary didn’t even stump for herself in
    poorer districts. She’s allergic to poverty .
    TYT -don’t tell me who to vote for or blame me for the Nazi
    Evolution.
    I spend 2 hours of my day on TYT. I’ll disseminate the information
    myself, thank you .
    Ana – that rant was hurtful , while I do appreciate the Trump coverage ,etc,
    all I could think was:
    – YOU DO YOU Boo.

    2. Ok, so you watch a show (and leave a comment)…then time passes, and someone has left me a reply(or I just got their reply)…thanks tyt…anyway, I am glad I came back to read these comments. I also chose STEIN and I am NOT sorry. Hilary and her rapist husband didn’t deserve another swipe at:DISTROYING AMERICA. Trump is a MONSTER but it is our good fortune that he is a feckless moron who constantly shoot himself and his party in the foot. Mrs clinton would have happily smiled and giggled through press conferences with her fellow PAID coconspirators while they DESTROYED AMERICA…and anyone who caste aspirations would have been called out as woman haters! I want America to be EMBARRASSED EVERYDAY and maybe, hopefully(next election day), they will pay attention….GROWTH IS MESSY…WAKE UP AMERICA!!!

  16. Both parties are oppressing the poor or otherwise disenfranchised. The answer for some of us is a third party. I could start going down the list why Hillary, although different in minimal ways, would be a continuation of, in her own words, “President Obama’s legacy. Well never have I felt stabbed in the back by my President ( as in the President I voted for twice) until him. I blame myself that, because Obama never said what he stood for, he just gave us something to hope for and we filled in the blank. I resolved to listen more carefully before voting again. Hillary had nothing to say. It still galls me when I remember that video of her pointing her finger in the face of a Bernie supporter and yelling at her that we (Bernie supporters) were lying. I could go about her policies and her answers in the debates, the way she thumbed her nose at us saying she’s winning, therefore she didn’t owe us anything. Am I supposed to care about Wall Street interests? Was I to care that we have “An economy that works for everyone” after forty years of Wall Street oppressing us? That’s what Hillary wanted. FTS! My father used to say, “At least the democrats will throw you a bone.” They don’t anymore. I listened to Obama publicly chastise what many of us stand for. He blames voters for the 2010 losses, rather than the Party, even though we gave the democrats all three houses and they denied us single payer healthcare, or a public option, expanding offshore drilling, made our tax cut temporary while making Bush’s tax cuts for the rich permanent. He lied to us about the oil in the Gulf being gone and gave BP permission to work there again. He lied to the people of Flint about their water and did nothing to help them. I could go on but my fingers are numb. Hillary campaigned on protecting and continuing all that. Should I have voted for more of that? Hell no!

  17. “It’s really depressing how many TYT members are in here looking for the perfect echo chamber. Gonna need some of y’all to toughen up.”

    This sounds exactly like how mainstream media attacks the Leftists. If we wanted an echo chamber we’d all be lining up gratuitously behind Cenk. Real people have honest differences. The notion that dissent automatically means we dislike the agent or agency we are disagreeing with is the smear that holds totalitarianism together.

  18. On another note, because I like tyt, here’s an idea for a newsworthy discussion: Perhaps you could compare the Venezuela report by VICE with Abby Martin’s (Empire Files) report about Venezuela. Whose is telling the truth?

    Another idea for discussion might be to compare VICE story about Gorilla poaching, making charcoal, and hydroelectric power source creation in one African country with John Perkins’ book Confessions Of An Economic Hitman or Naomi Klein’s Shock Doctrine: The rise of disaster capitalism.

    Just throwing out a couple topics I think are relevant to the public’s need to know.

  19. It’s really depressing how many TYT members are in here looking for the perfect echo chamber. Gonna need some of y’all to toughen up.

  20. I can read between the lines like a logical human and I agree with what you guys are saying.
    Don’t be frustrated or discouraged by Trolls and Bots. F them.
    I support your show and love your show. You cut through the BS that is out there and I know i’m am getting truth to power reports and solid stories. PERIOD! THANK YOU FOR ALL THAT YOU DO!

    1. DITTO!

      Those trolls goal is for Ana and Cenk to stop doing their job because it hurts their goals.
      Probably a bunch of brainwash all-day-long watchers of fox news.

  21. I particularly respected and admired Ana’s comments today about the show’s contents. I feel as if the position that Cenk and Ana are in is so relatable. I work for an organization in which my desire to always do what is best for the organization means that someone is inevitably always angry with me – whether it is the CEO, or the Board, or any individual employee. But Ana was exactly right. Doing work that means something to you should not be a popularity contest; it is about moving issues about which you care, want to share, and think are important. As a result, we’re better in our professional roles if we are loyal to no master other than our own best intentions, values, and conscience. Keep up the good work Young Turks. And thank you for that very relatable reminder Ana!

  22. Jaymeister, if that is how you see Jimmy Dore then you don’t understand what he’s doing at all. He is shining a light by exposing both sides of the same coin. You assume that because one side of the coin says one thing, and the other side of the coin says something else, that somehow one side of the coin has greater value than the other. I hope you’re just blinded by your bias, rather than being willfully disingenuous towards Jimmy Dore.

    1. That’s not what I’m saying at all. Jimmy and other progressives have done an excellent job of demonstrating how both parties are equally bad on issues of corporations, Wall Street, foreign wars, etc. However, he does not talk about the way in which they are different. We can have a discussion about whether the US is better off with Trump as president if it awakens the left into action in ways that a Hillary presidency would not have. But don’t think for a second it does not come at a great cost. Trump has already done plenty of damage like with the judiciary, the EPA, labor rules, internet freedom, oil drilling, etc. that was not done by Obama and likely would not have been done by Hillary. That does not mean Hillary would be an awesome president – she would have been mostly awful. And Democrats are mostly awful. But let’s not pretend there are no tangible differences here.

  25. And I’m poor. And I’m disabled. I have pre-existing conditions. But I self-sacrificed by voting Green because it’s time to build a better America for all, otherwise, we’re self-destructing. Incremental changes won’t fix anything. It merely drags out to where both parties are taking us anyway. They say a victim of domestic violence, when they the signs that the hit is coming, they will provoke it to get it over with. That’s what 90% of Americans are-Victims. And Wall Street Finance is our abuser. Knowing that, tell me again how Hillary is different than Trump in serving our abuser. You can’t build a third party overnight, but we need to start. 2016 could have been the beginning to something better. I don’t blame people for voting for Hillary, until they cast stones at Jill Stein voters. Trump is president for two reasons. 1) Because a lot of people voted for him. 2) The electoral college.
    Keep it honest. Tell me why progressives with a microphone will beat up other progressives for Hillary’s loss, rather than blame the real reasons she lost?

  26. Talk about a red herring, or two or three. Calm down. If Cenk hadn’t sarcastically asked of Stein voters, ‘Did you think she’d win?’ No one would be throwing it back at him. At least, I wouldn’t. That question was a mockery of many TYT members. You shouldn’t get upset if they feel the need to set the record straight with Cenk. Don’t throw dirt into a running fan.

  27. Ana, too many shows with you being tired of something or other and going on a rant about what you’re tired of. It’s tiring listening to how tired you are.

  28. THERE IT IS AGAIN!!! “We need the pain of Trump to show us, so we can learn” WHO’S LEARNING!!?? DCCC same, GOP same, MAGA supporters unmoved, Hilary supporters unmoved. The only “change” is that people who call themselves progressives took the most republican strategy of all time: make sure the country is in chaos and stays that way so that we can spend the next 4-8 years complaining that the other side isn’t fixing things fast enough so our side can win next time around. And just like republicans the people who are gonna feel that pain and have to survive that chaos don’t look like me, and even if they do, I’m in a shielded position so I’ll be fine. That’s called “sacrificing” people and it’s what the no shows and the never-Hilary voters did when they pushed that “better of two evils” bullshit. Go down to your local detention center and go tell the father of four who’s about to be sent to a country he’s never known for being brown that he is a necessary “sacrifice” for YOUR belief system, tell his son who’s gonna have to try and keep the family business and home afloat on one income that Hilary was late to embrace same sex marriage so his family had to be destroyed. Go give the comparison of drone strike numbers for Obama and Trump to a refugee who’s humanitarian aide was just cut off to please neo-nazis, so they can understand that bombs fell under both administrations. Go tell the mother of a black child hunted down and killed by the Baltimore police that her child and many more will have to die under Jeff Sessions (a man deemed too racist to be on the ALABAMA Supreme Court) so that the conditions will be just right for me to get the candidate I want. But you won’t do that, cause you don’t have to. Because if you did those people would look at you and probably smack you across the fucking mouth for being so utterly privileged, ignorant, and selfish. But just like republicans you get your bullhorns and you keep crying. Just like republicans you stroke the egos of “news” show hosts who tell you what to be outraged about next as they squeeze you for ratings. I don’t know how the same people who claim to hate Hannity and Fox and Friends can’t see how Jimmy Dore’s show is the EXACT same formula: soften Trumps craziness, legitimize and normalize Trump supporters, and rant about how everything is still Obama’s fault because he was Obama and that’s a good enough reason based on numbers and information that you can point to as “true” but only take a narrow view of the much broader picture of “yeah that’s true, but you know damn well we wouldn’t have (blank) right now if we had Hilary.”

    The “core problem” that I don’t see any current hope of being solved is that there’s a group of people who won’t self reflect and acknowledge from the standpoint of a lot of Dreamers, Muslims, African Americans, LGBT (especially those of color), Jewish Americans, and anyone else who is ACTUALLY receiving the heel of the boot of this current administration and their CLEARLY white supremacy inspired ideology (as well as their anti-poor agenda). That their “personal decision” to allow this man into office and their re-gearing up (even as these people are suffering) to allow him to win again in order to make a point about two-party systems or keep the conditions in place for them to (maybe) win later is (seen as) the definition of “selfish” and shows that there truly is no side that won’t use poc as pawns and bargaining chips to serve their privilege.
    What’s worse is that you they think they’re good, moral, empathetic people who want change and a “better” world. But actually they just thumbed through the book of oppression, found an issue that in some way may directly effect them (republican 101), then championed that specific issue, while placing blinders to anyone else’s issues (while claiming that they support EVERYONE) and if they don’t hear their code words then the candidate isn’t good enough. So they get to keep complaining, because in this country, if you always have something to complain about even when things are going well your an “intellectual.”

    1. I’m glad someone on here can see this too. Saying you “sacrificed” anything, while you played with the lives of other people is beyond disgusting. Pretending you’re heroic for doing absolutely nothing by voting for a candidate guaranteed to lose is beyond disgusting. Jimmy Dore is addicted to feeling righteous, and he doesn’t care how truthful or relevant his position is to real life, or the damage his persuasion has on the world, as long as he can feel morally righteous and scream about it. The more reality tries to alert him to its existence, the more he digs in and limits who can confront him, so he doesn’t have to think about or face anything he’s said or done, and can just keep taking a hit off that self righteousness pipe, and making money from the rubes who lap it up and just love being told that the world is exactly like they think it is, and anyone who says different is a shill or a plant or a secret operation to dissuade them from their righteous truth.

      It is, like you say, no different from the right wing people like Hannity. Just keep feeding me what I want to hear, and I’ll keep loving you. It’s just another cult.

      1. Okay, well… for what it’s worth, here it is: I will never, EVER vote for the corrupt, corporate candidate. It’s not that I think it’s a sacrifice, or that I’m a hero. It’s just that *I* will *NOT* participate in the destruction of the country I fought for, bled for, and nearly died for, and for which some of my friends likewise sacrificed for, in some cases everything. I owe it to myself, and to them, to show up and vote if and when and where I can, and so I do. And for them, and for the sake of a better future, I categorically REFUSE to be intimidated or cowed into voting for someone because “if you don’t, then you might as well have voted for…” because I don’t buy that. I vote, and I vote FOR whomever I think most likely to be a good office-holder, not in FEAR of what will happen if I don’t vote for the lesser of two evils. If you vote for ONE evil rather than the other, perceiving her to be the “lesser” (which is debatable,) “evil,” you are STILL voting FOR EVIL.

        Now, you can dispute this, and that’s fine. Such is your right. Just know this:

        I will NOT let you convince me not to vote, and the next corrupt, useless, pile of shit corporate “Democrat” the so-called “Democratic” (hahaha) Party tries to get me to vote for, will ALSO not receive my vote. EVER.

        EVER.

        I doubt I’m alone in this, so all the people voting for some corrupt, weak, paid-to-lose, useless corporatist, insisting that we better come along and vote with them… bad news, guys. I won’t. Because I refuse to fall for The Great Lie of American Politics, (that a vote for anyone besides Candidate A is as good as a vote for Candidate B, and a vote for anyone besides Candidate B is as good as a vote for Candidate A,) because it’s FALSE. It’s a lie, and I simply won’t fall for it.

        You who scream that we, (voters for Bernie Sanders, Jill Stein, Gary Johnson, and the like,) are somehow responsible for Trump… who think Clinton would have been SO much better… we look forward to getting screamed at again in a few years when the so-called “Democratic” (hahaha) Party nominates YET ANOTHER CORRUPT, ANTI-AMERICA, PRO-CORPORATE HACK, (Tim Caine this time, perhaps?) and once again, the Republicans manage to get elected someone COMPLETELY unqualified, to continue to carry out the agenda of their owners. We know it’s going to happen, and there is ONE thing the rest of the Democratic voting base can do to stop it. THEY CAN HAVE SOME BACKBONE, instead of just blindly voting for whomever the Democratic Party tells them they have to.

        If you already intend to vote AGAINST corruption, AGAINST oligarchy, then this is not intended for you; you’re already on the right side of history. If, however, you STILL think we should have come out and voted for Clinton… well, “you do you”.

        We’ll do what we did last time.

        In my case, I voted for Bernie in the Primary, and Johnson in the General, because he was the ONLY candidate still running who HAD any qualification for the office. Oh, and yes, before you say it, I’m aware he was not as up on current events as he should have been, and as embarrassing as that was, one, it takes less than 5 minutes to find out what/where Aleppo was, and maybe an hour to learn what one needs to know, bare-minimum, about that particular topic, (and he STILL knew more about it than Trump does now, though I know that’s not really saying anything,) and also you can’t BOMB that which you don’t know where it is, which is a good thing, when you think about it.

        Personally, I think it spoke VOLUMES as to his character that he DIDN’T just try to bullshit his way through the interview and pretend he knew what or where Aleppo was. But what did the corporate-owned, corrupt, useless mainstream media do? Focused on nothing but that. Surprise!

        But I digress.

        Let them scream all they like, but next general election, I’m probably going to vote for Gary Johnson again, (or someone like him,) because the Republicans are almost certainly going to nominate Trump, (not acceptable, or if not him, then Mike Pence, also not acceptable,) and the “Democrats” are going to nominate… my guess is someone else who will talk a good populist game, but behind the scenes promise all manner of goodies to the super-rich, to banks, and to corporations in general… basically someone just like Hillary Clinton… hell, maybe Hillary Clinton herself again, since she’s still not completely fossilized yet… and I won’t vote for EITHER of those losers. If I’m alone in this, fine. You will win. You’ll get whichever corrupt, bought-and-paid-for whore for corporate (or Russian, in Trump’s case,) cash gets more votes in the Electoral College, but I won’t help make that happen.

        Who knows… if enough people like me get good and sick and tired of the corruption, we might even finally break the back of the oligarchy, and return the United States of America to some semblance of a democracy, in the sense of being governed with the consent OF the governed.

        Fat chance of that, I know… but I have to hold onto hope. But again, one last time… I will NOT vote for Hillary Clinton, nor for anyone LIKE Hillary Clinton. Ever. And rest assured… I WILL vote.

    2. Isn’t that the fault of the people who voted for Trump? Why should I criticize the people who voted for a candidate that has nothing to do with any of the bad stuff that is happening, candidates that wanted a completely different direction for the country?

      Do you think a Hillary primary voter is as responsible for Trump as a Jill Stein voter? She was their preferred candidate (so was Jill Stein for other people), but it sure wasn’t a pragmatic decision, given the polling Bernie vs Trump / Hillary vs Trump.

      Are we sure we’re not buying into the establishment narrative at times..?

    3. Well said. Too many people refuse to acknowledge the human cost of 4 years of Trump, preferring to peddle the lie that “Trump hasn’t even done anything!” (way to make it obvious you don’t follow current policy) or that Clinton still would have been worse. Come on.

  29. It’s pretty clear that Cenk has more tolerance for diverse opinion than a lot of the members do. Cenk allows the liberal/progressive spectrum from Michael Shure to Jimmy Dore on his platform, while many viewers freak out if they have to endure someone who is not perfectly aligned with their own worldview.

    I have many issues with Cenk’s presentation – he is often misinformed on basic facts, he often comments on things outside his wheelhouse of knowledge, he sometimes loses the plot in the midst of a passionate soliloquy, and yes, he does concentrate too much on frivolous Trump stories. But I do not question the integrity of his enterprise and that he really does want to serve the progressive movement the best he can. He has pragmatic reasons for everything he does, and is pretty transparent about them. And if you disagree with him, that’s ok – he’ll be the first to tell you that. But what sets him off like in this show is the suggestion that he is somehow an establishment shill, when all evidence points to the opposite.

    I have commented before about how my criticism of the Jimmy wing is that they are so wrapped up in Hillary derangement that their only goal is to prove Hillary and the DNC wrong about the election and Russian collusion, to the point that they are willing to ignore potential Trump crimes that have nothing to do with the election. They also have a double standard in that they are willing to give credit to Trump and Republicans who talk the talk on some issue they agree with but don’t give Dems the same benefit when it’s the Dems who should be encouraged to do the right thing whenever possible, regardless of their motivation. Meanwhile, Cenk has a track record of real action with Wolf Pac and Justice Dems. Cenk lights the candles, Jimmy curses the darkness. But I still watch every AP show because Jimmy’s truth needs to be heard too.

    Sorry for the rant, but I hate the fact that progressives can’t disagree without devolving into a pissing match. This is exactly the stereotype that we have to disprove.

    1. @jaymeister “Often Misinformed on basic Facts” That’s a bold statement without any examples because I have rarely heard any misinformation from Cenk or TYT on a whole, not that it doesn’t exist but that it’s rare. You may be confusing his opinions with the facts he’s presenting.

      1. Off the top of my head the biggest example is when on a number of occasions he conflated atmospheric carbon emissions with ozone layer depletion. That shows a real misunderstanding on why and how carbons affect climate. Science is not his strong suit and there are other examples of that making his commentary sound silly, but this is one that stood out to me.

    2. “more tolerance for diverse opinion than a lot of the members do. […] while many viewers freak out if they have to endure someone who is not perfectly aligned with their own worldview.”

      I’m really not sure if that is true. Yes, we disagree, we actually disagree. I disagree with Cenk, Ana, John, Jimmy, Kyle, Michael.Ben on some issues and agree a lot with them on others and I think that is true for all of us. We are all members at the end of the day, we all pay for it, not because we’re trolls or haters, but because we overall love the show, want to support a progressive news network, care about the company and it’s employees. So, I don’t know, sometimes people just disagree. It’s just our different life experiences and POVs…

  30. I’ve been voting third part for a long time now. The idea that this takes votes away from more viable candidates is actually a part of the problem. It’s wrong headed thinking. How can we get out of this cycle of continually playing back and forth with two broken parties if we don’t have the courage of our convictions to vote our conscience? There were no viable repub nor dem candidates this past election; not for me.

    The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Voting repub or dem is participating in that cycle of insanity.

    I guess I should say “establishment” repubs and dems. With Wolf PAC and justice dems, maybe there could be an alternative. Those of us who do not like the hypocrisy and the social conservatism of the repubs but cannot bear the burdens of the dems who are still too conservative on social issues are looking for alternative candidates. But the jury is still out on those justice dems.

    One of the things I appreciate about TYT is that you call out everyone on their bs. This is not something mainstream media does. They pick their corners and stay there and make excuses when their people screw up instead of holding them to task.

    I don’t agree with everything TYT says, but I think you are being sincere and honest. It also looks like you research before you speak so your comments come from a place that is usually informed. That’s why I became a member; because I see integrity here.

  31. Amen, Deb. I too realized that I was rewarding them for little or nothing in return. The Party presumes we have no where else to go and so they have us by the b****, figuratively speaking. They take our votes for granted. Why do both parties serve the top two percent? I have an analogy of a football field. 100 yards total votes. 45% always vote Democrat. 45% always vote Republican. That uses up 90 yards. Last ten yards is basically divided because even the holdouts swing one way or the other, using up 8 yards. The only real holdouts are the top two percent, the two yards needed to get the touchdown and win the White House. That’s why they do it. I realized that the Democratic Party has to earn my vote. Despite dem leaders blaming us for not voting, they need to give us something to vote for. That is how democracy is supposed to work (Cenk). Voters should have to calculate who to vote for.

  32. I don’t know who he voted for, but he lives in California, which Clinton won by a healthy margin of 30+%. He might have done what I did, voted late in the day after it was 100% clear Clinton she won the state. I wrote in “Bernie Sanders” and still feel good about it because I got to vote my conscience without helping put Trump in office. If I had been in a critical state like Pennsylvania I would definitely have voted for Clinton. Cenk is correct. She is worse than Bernie by a lot and better than Trump by a lot.

  35. I voted for Bernie in the primary and still support him. I’ve been registered as a Democrat for over 40 years and to me Bernie holds the same ideals and values I hold and I mistakenly thought my party held.

    When Ralph Nader ran in 2000, we were told by the Party that he was a spoiler and should have run against the Democratic nominee in the primary… Bernie took that advice 16 years later and what happened? The so-called real Democrats STILL complain.

    People who say that Bernie isn’t a real Democrat are desperately making excuses to distract from the fact that their preferred candidate lost to an evil clown.

  36. I will NEVER be sorry that I voted for Jill Stein, both clinton and trump and the deplorable sycophants they surround themselves with are now grandly exposed…America is the laughing stock of the world…trump is a national embarrassment…after a recent session my very loving sweet faced elderly therapist calmly shook her head and mused: “where are the snipers when you need them!” I have enormous respect for both Ana and Cenk but their constant vile aspersions caste for anyone who didn’t line up and vote for clinton are damaging. You are preaching to the choir, we get it, he is a monster, but growth is messy, and America needed this monster to bitch slap us back to reality.

    1. I knew Jill Stein had no chance of winning. Thanks, Cenk, for insinuating your members who voted for Jill are stupid. Actually, we had far more forward vision than you will acknowledge. If not for your support for the establishment, we could have grown the Green Party to make them a viable contender in 2020. We saw the writing on the wall for Hillary, unlike you and Bernie who supported the status quo. I knew Hillary definitely wasn’t going to win when Barack Obama told a black audience that he would consider it a personal offense if they didn’t vote for Hillary. That was the sound of desperation.

  37. I’m sure that was cathartic and all, but lumping a bunch of different critics into a single viewpoint is a straw man.
    The tweet didn’t particularly pique my interest. Cenk’s reply had obvious holes, and when it got into full rant mode my initial response was defensive, then they just kept throwing different things into the pot until it became slightly amusing, before finally becoming a boring and counter productive waste of time

  38. Interesting. There is a phenomenon I realized in both America and Europe over and over again on the left. We seem to be able to deal with the most obnoxious “criticism” on the right, even death threads. Sometimes right-wingers get under our skin, sure. But generally speaking, we seem to be kind of comfortable with debating the right.

    But whenever there is criticism from the left, left-wingers get extremely angry, agitated, stressed out, emotional, higher pitched voice, speaking faster, hard beat goes up, face turns red, it gets harder to breath :-)
    Left-wingers can’t handle criticism from the left, at least it seems to be a lot harder…

    Why do you think that is..?

    1. Maybe not inherently a right left issue. Could have more to do with how confident you are with your own point of view against the one challenging it, especially from unexpected angles. With a right winger, most points of disagreement are well understood, and counter arguments fleshed out in the head, with relatively large margins of error. On the left, especially if it’s a good argument, it’s harder to refute while still maintaining enough logical margins with your own stance. Hence some amount of self doubt and introspection (now it’s personal !), which is the easiest way to make a person defensive. Also challenges where they are less expected frustrate most of us, whether in a debate or elsewhere.
      Generally speaking it’s good to remind yourself it’s about the facts, not you or your intelligence (view everything from a virtual third person position). Of course, it takes discipline to achieve that state of mind.

  39. Please read David Kay Johnston’s books, The Making of Donald Trump and It’s Even Worse than You Think which detail far more pertinent crimes by Trump than affairs, namely involvement with organized crime and his history of not paying contractors and tax fuckery for example. Johnston is a journalist who has been keeping tabs on Trump for decades. Google and watch his interviews, including a recent one on Democracy Now. Not sure if he has been interviewed on TYT or is scheduled to; if not, he should be.

  40. 1000% agree with Ana and Cenk. You all that are stuck with the mindset that your vote is an extension of your soul are lost, and need to find another passion. This is a a civic responsibility and should be taken as such. Beat them in the primary and tadah you aren’t forced to vote for the corporatist.

  41. Many thanks to nothingbeforeus for the best, most thoughtful and fair comments on this page today.

    My time being better-spent on pondering how many angels fit on the head of a pin, I have no time to ponder whether Hillary’s presidency would have been better.

    I do not regret that in 2016, for the first time in 35 years of voting, I did not vote for the Democrat for president.

    I DO regret always voting for Democrats in every presidential election for 35 years prior. I now recognize that by rewarding them no matter how mediocre or bad their candidates were, I was enabling the Dems to spiral ever-downward.

    Suggestion for TYT: stop obsessing over the past and start looking forward, and seek to engage your viewers in joining your side. (HINT – insulting them is not likely to be useful.)

  42. I honestly do not understand the amount of hate Ana seems to attract.

    I agree with her more often than not, and I love her Ana-isms, and passion.

    Stay strong, sister! I think most of the really vicious hate is because you are a woman, and has little to do with your opinions or the stories you cover.

    Keep up the good work, Ana!
    As for Cenk … your a dick, leave Jimmy alone (just kidding). ;)

  43. On the tweet about Bernie and the Democratic Party, I agree with the man who tweeted in. If Bernie wants to not be a Democrat, let him spend the extra effort and money to RUN as one! I don’t see it as tribalism is I see it like this: Bernie wants a job at Target. Bernie lands an interview at Target. Bernie wears a t-shirt to the interview that says “FUCK TARGET! Target is corrupt and everything there costs the average person too much money! Wal-Mart is better!”. Would you hire him at Target? I wouldn’t. That said, the presidential election is nearly 3 years away, and no one can be sure who will run and who won’t. Let’s focus on surviving and resisting Trump & his goons!

    On the immigration thing, that’s awful, especially at the very end. I mean, the guy is wearing an ankle bracelet at that point, how much trouble do you think the guy would make? Were they worried he was a “flight risk”?! Sounds strange since they WANT him to disappear. I hope things work out for him and his family.”

    CDC: It’s also a VERY deadly flu season this year. Losing the CDC Director in the middle of that will help I’m sure. What an f’ing b*tch.

    I LOVE Ana’s recreations! Yay! I’m gonna cash her outside now, how ’bout that?!

  44. TYT Recreations DEFINITELY needs to be a category, if nothing else, just an archives tab of the past skits they’ve done.

  45. I think there is too much name calling on either side, I don’t think calling viewers who voted Jill stein stupid and they should fuck off accomplishes much. I don’t understand the hatred towards green voters who liked Jill’s policies when she only got less than 1.5 million votes. You rarely see voices on the left including at tyt attack the 62 million who voted trump and the 100 million who didn’t want to vote. Still many can say they didn’t want the establishment and was tired of voting for one of two evils etc which in part is true but that’s the same for the green voters and they bothered to vote. I still thank tyt for doing a Jill stein town hall and though i fall more on the secular talk/Jimmy Dore side of the Russia thing like them I could see money laundering happening with the Russians or any country, DJ is corrupt but I don’t see collusion and if there is I would wait till there is proof and the proof will be here when DJ is gone. To all the hosts, Cenk, Jimmy, Ana, John etc hv a good day!

    1. Agreed!

      The fact that seems to be forgotten is the number of people who did NOT vote at all.

      Seeing their 2 choices, as South Park perfectly described a “Giant Douche vs. a Turd Sandwich,” how many just stayed home? Nothing will change, same ol’ same ol’, and I can’t afford to miss work.

      For that matter, how many Alt-Right/Nazi/KKK types voted for the FIRST time because they thought Giant Douche would bring about a White Wave of Righteousness?

      It’s what has always been the Left’s main trouble…beat up on your own side.
      Hate on Hillary voters and hate on Jill voters. Hate on Russia stories & hate on the Comedian.
      I watch TYT Main everyday, but generally side with Kyle & Jimmy.

      While it sometimes gets rough on the boards, I hate to think people are going hard against Cenk or Ana & Main Crew or Jimmy & AP hosts, thru tweets or FB live or whatever. I don’t think Cenk reads the comment boards anyway, he’s too busy.

      Both Main & AP are exposing sides of the same bullshit govt we are ALL fighting.

      1. Completely agree. The white supremacists don’t get as much hate from the left as the people who don’t think their is Russia collusion and i think both jimmy, cenk, ana etc get too angry at each other and it’s become quite uncomfortable when I like them all and don’t see their personal beliefs of both sides being wrong and stupid as my opinion on them is that they just have a disagreement and we will know who is right when proof surfaces, anybody who is certain trump colluded with Russia is fooling themselves and same for people who think Trump couldn’t and it’s impossible. Look at Israel and Saudi arabia Trump has done more favours for them than Russia and Trump has business connections to many countries, same with Jared Kushner so I would be more concerned with conflicts of interest with many countries and I find focusing on Russia and only Russia is dangerous. I do think Jimmy gets very angry at them too much but I think that’s because he’s got an explosive personality and really thinks the Russia stuff could lead to ww3 and I think if you look at his perspective from that angle you can see why he gets so angry. He could still do with attacking the republicans who are in power a bit more and not the democrats, secular talk I think balances it out the best though I do prefer Jimmy with his anger at the system.

        I agree all of tyt from people like michael shure to Jimmy dore do a great job and I wished the hosts saw that which they do but disagreements shouldn’t lead to wanting those who disagree on a minority of stuff to f** off like ana said, it’s not productive, still Ana is a boss fighting the good fight.

  46. shut up, Shut Up, Shut Up!
    Hillary didn’t win and it is Hillary’s fault. Throwing progressives under the bus didn’t work.
    I think we can repair the damage faster after Donald then if it was Hillary.
    We had a chance after Bush, We were hoodwinked. (The one time in my life I voted for a democrat president and he was an awesome republican.)
    I’m glad you voted the way you voted, right on, more power to you.
    Now move on and shut up about other peoples vote.
    It’s all a prop to make you believe that the fictional democratic state is still alive.
    We’ve had economic fascism since the 70’s, we are trained not to see it.

    1. YES! well said…”we are trained not to see it.” They need to remake the movie Gaslight and call it:
      AMERICA 2016!

  47. I hope you do not lose sight of the majority of the audience that do agree with you and support your show. Keep up the great work.

  48. I’m at minute 24, I just want to add, that don’t forget, I’m certain that the majority of your viewers even though they are silent (don’t comment) agree with you, and like what you prioritize in coverage.

  49. That rant was embarrassing. Why are you listening to people who don’t want coverage of the current president’s actions? Ana I love you, but don’t tell people to fuck off to another channel. You could have explained your positions without insulting your audience.

    1. True, the vitriol was probably unwarranted, but I guess there’s a lot of hating going on in the background that we’re not privy to… Everything said up to the “FO” was logical and appropriate, and maybe this rant is best kept for a Post Game, but I’m prepared to give Ana a pass.

      We’re all human and sometimes we need to vent.

  50. I’m with Cenk & Ana when they express bewilderment at why people stick to a party no matter what their policy. IMO cynical politicians know people are too busy trying to just survive to look too deeply into things and that’s why the politicians are so brazen in making totally untrue statements to convince people the opposite is the truth.
    Every federal election Australia’s ABC (public media) put up a quiz on their website asking people what policy position they support on a long list of issues. The results are tallied & the person is informed which party best matches their preferred policiy positions. And, every time a number of people accuse the results of being rigged in favour of left wing parties because they say they always vote conservative but that’s not the result they got. It’s not rigged, it’s just people often don’t realise they’re not voting for those who best represent them. One of our conservative prime ministers from the 1980s recently resigned from the party he once led because he could no longer agree with the direction they were going. He said that ‘he hadn’t left the party, the party had left him’. Unless people have the time to watch very closely they don’t realise how far right conservative parties have shifted over the last 30-40 years.
    I can only admire TYT & Bernie & other progressives who are fighting so hard to turn things around & get people to see that they are being mislead.

    2. The fact that the ABC quiz happens at all is amazing when you compare to US politics. I think since we have compulsory voting (which, for the record, means you just have to turn up on a Saturday, cross your name off a list – then proceed to vote or turn around and leave without voting if you don’t want to – both options let you get the sausage on the way out so what’s the big deal?!) I digress.

      Since we have compulsory voting, there is more of priority for people to question their positions and the positions of those running – it’s SO not about personalities and ‘getting the base excited enough to come out and vote’. We don’t care half as much about ‘if our leader is cool enough to get a beer with’ as Americans seem to – this frees us up to look at more substantive issues. I’m not saying everyone actually does pay close attention, but the fact that we get fined if we don’t at least turn up, means that as a population we inherently tend to play ball and become active in the democratic process. The ABC quiz is precisely made for the ‘low information voter’ who, as pointed out, is just a person who doesn’t have the time to invest in this stuff because their lives are busy as fuuurk or the first time voter who doesn’t just want to ‘do what mum and dad do’ and wants to figure out their own thoughts on an issue facing our nation – the quiz is there because even the low information voters care about the policies and what that means for their future.

      Can you imagine a US election where you didn’t have to spend so much time (an entire goddamn year) talking about all the bullshit personality crap and just got down to the issues because the politicians knew they couldn’t get away with not talking about their actual policies? IMAGINE IT. Short term campaigns and compulsory voting, you guys. Solves a lot of problems, can’t really see a downside thus far. Except Tony Abbott. That was a definite downside… I guess he proves the rule?

      1. Yeah that’s the one – but the ‘quiz’ is sometimes embedded in articles on our newspapers websites for broader access – It’s not a great website-it’s our public broadcaster which is currently hugely underfunded by the Liberal/National Coalition govt (Liberal means conservative/right leaning major party. I know. its very annoying. Labor are our left leaning major party).
        So the Libs/Nats are always trying to take money away from ABC coz they think it’s overly biased… hence they’re websites are shite.

        If you want to have a play with the questions they used for the 2016 election, click ‘Begin’, use the postcode 3000 (which is just the central district for Melbourne, likely Greens favoring from memory) and then state, Victoria, and you should have access.

        The questions all relate to issues that were being discusses by the 2 majors and the Greens at the time. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-13/election-2016-policy-big-issues/7387588
        (From here you can also click through to the actual vote results)

        Some have changed already since then (marriage equality for one) some, frustratingly have not (recognizing aboriginal peoples in our constitution. FOR REALS. uugh this one lands on both sides/too hard basket, which is ridiculous and infuriating)

        Also – it may not even work. I went through all the questions and it’s stalling (although, this could also be on account of our tragically shit internet – thanks again Coalition.)

        Apologies if you’re australian and already knew all the above!

  51. I gotta admit I’m sick of being told I’m a fucking idiot by this channel. So what if your audience wants to show feedback on your Hour 1 dedication to Russia and Trump you don’t need to berate them for it constantly it’s fucking annoying, I’m not gonna renew my TYT membership till it’s all over evidence or not the shitty comments are too much. I get the guy is president I’m not complaining of the coverage just don’t rip into your audience for wanting something different.

    1. HEATHSTEWART Though, I appreciate your sentiment, I am proud to be a TYT member. I, and hope you, will find (like I do) that supporting this network is a statement: I CAN handle the truth and I want as many people as possible to hear it! Personally, I have tempered my main show watching and watch A.P. , Old School, Murder with friends and ALL the post games ( Friday’s three amigos is a personal favorite) and skip most of the main shows. I don’t need the lectures. I get as regular humans Cenk and Ana are dealing with the same shit we are, BUT they are paid to talk about it. I find listening a form of self-flagellation and as a recovering catholic, I must obtain ( I wish I hadn’t wasted my time with this episode, but, I am glad they are here)…peace be with you:)

  52. Nothingbeforeus . I think that’s a good analysis of Jimmy’s angle. Although I love a lot of what Jimmy does, his apparent hatred of Clinton seems to know no bounds. His video’s prior to the election citing all the ‘evidence’ that Clinton had Parkinson’s induced dementia totally lost me.
    The ‘evidence’ was straight out of the right wing conspiracy playbook and I felt were very irresponsible. I’m no Clinton fan, but Jimmy’s hatred was irrational and he continued to stoke this in his followers week after the election was over. Disappointing from someone who I feel really cares about progressive issues.

    1. I hate to say it but I can’t watch aggressive progressives currently. I am slowly coming back around but Jimmy crossed a few too many lines for me. I was hardline “I want the show off the network” for a few weeks which I am no longer there and a bit ashamed that I ever was… but I am still not to “I can watch it again”

  53. Cenk and Ana (and many others) thank you! I had given up on caring and got apathetic and you guys got me passionate again. I don’t always agree with you but I appreciate you. Reading some of the comments not just today but for months now… In case you don’t hear it enough

    From the bottom of my heart thank you for what you do

  54. No, I watched diligently throughout primary and general election, Cenk has been consistent in supporting Bernie 100%, but when Clinton got the nomination Cenk said he would vote for her over Trump because Trump would be a disaster. Jimmy Dore said he would never vote for Clinton when he was on the panel with Cenk

  56. Cenk needs a co-host of comparative intellect. The “fuck-off” co-host should go. Bring back somewhat of the quality of Nomi Kunst.

    1. Nomiki Konst* and Ana is of comparable intellect and not a fuck off co-host. Stop the Ana hate and stop pitting the women of TYT against each other

  57. Now it’s getting ugly. I didn’t like the Stormy Daniels story from the beginning, but now it’s actually her that’s in the national conversation and what she did or didn’t allege on Kimmel. There are plenty of excuses, I understand, but if Trump had paid money to cover up a real estate deal or a cake he once ate we wouldn’t have the baker or the cement dealer on national TV and talk about it 24/7. No, she is part of the national conversation, she is in the spot light, she’s getting asked nonsensical questions because she fucked a dude that’s no a politician and you know it. It’s the only reason why this is a story. You chose a job that society deems immoral? You’re fair game. Oh you’re not the politician yourself? You think you shouldn’t be dragged into it? No, that rules not for you, because you chose to fuck for a living. Sick!

    And by the way, where you see proof that she didn’t write the statement, I see a woman trying to make fun of exactly that fact, the fact that apparently you can just talk and allege everything on the internet if you’re in her situation. I mean, you included the “I also work for the FBI and am a man, according to the internet” part, so how can you not see that. You love those comparisons, so if Obama actually was accused of that and a porn star had given that exact same answer, we would interpret it the same way, come on. I don’t even now if we on the left had even believed the pee tape allegations or dismissed it right away as obvious nonsense. But OK, fuck Trump, but let her out, don’t show pictures with her autograph (just to have an excuse to show salacious material on TV).

    How people lumped into “sex scandal” everything from forcible rape to a consensual one-night stand was annoying in 1998, but in 2018 (after the #metoo movement)? There is something wrong about it, not something in the water, but something in the culture…

      1. Then we’ve seen a completely different show.

        And again, could she have given a completely satisfying answer without just saying “yes”? The whole segment got prepared, I guess? Kimmel had the cards ready. So he knew she would answer they way she answered, right? It’s complete and utter BS. I hate that she gets put into this position, because her fuck buddy got elected POTUS years later.

        Be a porn star or prostitute or work in any field related to the adult industry, no rules apply, you’re fair game. There is something strange in America. If I had to rank the countries I lived before by how open they are when it comes to sex and sexuality, I’d say Hungary-Czech Republic-Germany-USA. But if I had to rank them by how obsessed people are with sex, how often they talk about, how important they at least claim it is to them, how they react if anything related to sex is mentioned in any kind of way, even the slightest I’d actually not only rank them the other way around! And between Germany and America I’d put 10x the diameter of earth :-) It sounds contradictory, but strangely enough, I actually think it’s true… #hypersexualized

  58. Can we stop with the backstabbing insults … this whole thing smacks of a nasty divorce in a dysfunctional family and your audience are the children being asked to pick sides. Can we grow the fuck up and deal with these issues like adults instead of using us as your punching bag for the unnamed but very obvious object of your ire … just stop it already – everyone involved.

    1. I completely understand the “just stop it already” sentiment although it’s not just going to happen. Even if the in-fighting could just all be stopped, that isn’t really addressing the core issue(s) so the conflict won’t ever actually be smoothed over. I don’t even really know for sure the core issue is but obviously there is an issue and I don’t think it’s like a custody battle.. The key is trying harder to work this out maturely, like adults, so that people/the country can actually heal. What is the unnamed but very obvious object of ire? Trump?

  59. Love the recreations, always great. I enjoyed the ire being expressed towards viewers and members who not only don’t believe that Hillary Clinton would have better for the country and the world than Donald Trump, but still insist on arguing over it. I voted for Jill Stein. I live in South Carolina. If I lived in a state where there was a .001% chance Trump wouldn’t have won, I would have held my nose and voted Clinton, because even though the lesser of two evils is still evil, it’s still less f$#@ing evil!! I can’t understand the rationale. I can’t, I’ve tried, but I can’t. We are slipping into a fascist dictatorship and it feels like all the left wants to do is point fingers and fight amongst ourselves. Sure, we’d probably be doing that even if Clinton had won, but in the meanwhile, we wouldn’t be living in Trump’s America watching EVERYTHING fall apart. God, I’m so scared of where we will all be in two, five, ten years. This is terrifying.

    1. Thank you for this comment… seriously just thank you for it. The lack of awareness and compassion from some people. Just again thank you.

    2. The issue seems to continue to be that if you voted Jill (whatever state you were in), that you are responsible for Trump. What if you always voted Green? Or voted for Nader? Was it your fault then?

      The trouble is the “finding fault.” Does it really matter now?
      My opinion is it is Obama & Hillary’s fault that we have Trump. Go further back and it’s the DNC/NeoLibs’ fault for abandoning voters and becoming a jobs program for Consultants.

      Can people bitch on the boards about what they don’t like as pertaining to a show’s topic? Fuck yea!
      But, there’s a lot of name-calling here, on BOTH sides.
      Maybe what needs to happen is more, “Would I kiss my mother with that mouth?” thoughtfulness, and less “I’m reasonable and you’re an idiot” type talk.

      1. Okay, so my initial reaction is to say, “If you voted for Stein in a state that possibly could have gone to Clinton, then you helped play a role in Trump’s ultimate victory.” That initial reaction seems to be pretty clearly wrong, though. Looking back now through all the data (as someone who isn’t great with math), it seems that even if every Stein vote went to Clinton, Trump would still win the Electoral vote. It’s possible I’m reading it all wrong. but going through site after site with final tallies, percentages, and updated articles, it doesn’t look like it adds up. Even with the 7 Electoral votes that didn’t go to Trump or Clinton (none of those going to Stein or Johnson) going to Clinton, she’d lose by 70. My second reaction was, “Clinton lost because more people stayed home in 2016 than in 2012” but that’s also wrong. Looking back at everything reminds me of what I already know, I think most people know, that the fault is her own. Not on third party candidates, not on third party candidate voters, maybe the Electoral College itself played a roll, but ultimately Clinton lost because she was a terrible candidate.

        1. “ultimately Clinton lost because she was a terrible candidate.”

          BINGO. Don’t blame voters who voted outside the party for this defeat. DNC could have run a better candidate. They chose Clinton instead.

  60. Don’t feed the trolls by acknowledging exactly what they want you to do. Cenk and Ana, they jerk off to the fact that they get under your skin. The rant both of you guys did this show is the tiniest shred of validation that they crave, and it will only continue to embolden them. You’ve already won! They want to watch your show because it gets under their skin. I have watched your shows for so long, remember The Point?, that I don’t remember a time when I didn’t. No other news source has the discourse over the topics that hour 1 and 2 of your show has. Watching your show is like listening to classical music to study better, only it’s intellectual conversation about the news. Your opponents, trolls, and haters don’t want there to be truth out there because it goes against their narrative, whatever that may be. Keep crushing them with facts and links to sources that have propelled you guys to the forefront of being the number one news source online, and really in the U.S.

    1. The problem is they aren’t trolls. People that work for this network have these same views. They aren’t trolls some people honestly believe we are no worse off with Trump than we would have been with Hillary. They should have to mee people like the man talked about in the first story and tell him that to his face

      1. Sorry, I apologize I think I misunderstood your point. You are talking the more hardline “they are Hillary supporters” etc. Ignore me it’s late and I am fired up. I see it now

        I still slightly disagree. I think “not feeding the trolls” is important but I think that if you want to feed them because you need to vent off your own feelings do so.

        I face this to a much lesser degree as a streamer. People come in make tacky comments about my looks, weight, whatever. Most of the time I ignore it because you can’t feed those people but sometimes I need to just stand up for myself. I get that they get off on it but I need to. I need to stop and say f*ck you, you don’t get to judge me or harass me. I know deep down that it feeds them but I also have a right to my feelings.

        I think Cenk and Ana just hit a boiling point tbh

    1. Because they speak truth to all that need to hear it not just to those it’s easy for them to do so with ^_^

    1. He said it every time in the primaries he was on the fence in the general but eventually took the same position as Bernie… that Trump was too dangerous.

    2. I don’t know who he voted for, but he lives in California, which Clinton won by a healthy margin of 30+%. He might have done what I did, voted late in the day after it was 100% clear Clinton she won the state. I wrote in “Bernie Sanders” and still feel good about it because I got to vote my conscience without helping put Trump in office. If I had been in a critical state like Pennsylvania I would definitely have voted for Clinton. Cenk is correct. She is worse than Bernie by a lot and better than Trump by a lot.

  65. I agree w Masshole508 and would like to chime in. I’m a member so I can hear and support what your opinions are and listen to what you have to say, as well as others. Try not to let the haters get to y’all although I know that is so hard sometimes. Just because they are pretty loud and somewhat obnoxious doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty of us that agree with you on this subject or at least are interested to hear your opinions and are keeping an open mind. If I heavily disagreed with TYT I wouldn’t be a member as I disagree with a lot of the stuff out there. Also, the fact that I’m willing to fork over $10 every month out of my limited budget must mean that I feel I get a sufficient bang for my buck, which I would have to say I get a great deal out of my membership even though I only joined last year when I was looking for a real news source rather than the t.v. drivel driving me crazy.

    I should also just say thanks for all the work and dedication you all put towards making quality shows. It’s easy to forget to thank people who excell as they tend to make it look so effortless, well relatively, so thank you. I always get excited when there is something new to see about the world we live in and hear what Cenk, Anna and the rest of the gang have to say, even sometimes when the news isn’t great. I would have not been able to get through 2017 without TYT, well and Bernie. It’s been harrowing and I, for one, am extremely grateful that there are at _least_ a few lights in this long dark part of our lives to help us help ourselves and others hopefully to a brighter future. Ok now I sound like a shmuck, so. I should end this, but again, thank you, and much love.

  66. ana cenk… keep up the great work.. don’t let them idiots get you down.. we support you 110%.. Progressive values will win in the end, no matter what Hilarywannabees or Bots say. Great work guys. Keep us informed to what really matters all others fuck off as Ana says…..

    1. Yes!!! Although it actually goes back a bit further, to around 1980 (not sure of the exact year, could be 1979 or 78, or maybe 81) when the Dems agreed to start taking corporate money. Clinton was just the first Democratic President since that rules change, therefor he was the leader of the party and the founder of Neoliberalism.

  68. I’m never gonna tell someone how they should have voted, so I’ll never tell a Bernie supporter that voted for Clinton because they didn’t want Trump that they were wrong to do so. So I also expect that those who voted for Hilary shouldn’t tell me that I was wrong because I didn’t vote for her. My vote is my voice, and I will not have it usurped by anyone. I didn’t vote for Hilary because I didn’t want to reward the Democratic Party for their corruption and the rigging of the Primary. My hope is that them losing to Trump will teach them a lesson. Yes, it puts this nation in great pain, but pain is a great motivator for change. If Hilary would have won then the chances of real change and real reform get even smaller than they already are.

    1. “My hope is that them losing to Trump will teach them a lesson. Yes, it puts this nation in great pain, but pain is a great motivator for change.”

      i.e. “Some of you may die, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make. ” Nice one.

      1. I’m not sacrificing anybody. I didn’t vote for him. I used my voice in another way. That was about as large a hyperbole you could make blaming those that didn’t vote for Trump or Hilary as having blood on their hands. I have no more blood on my hands for the actions of this administration than you or I do for Bush’s Iraq War. That’s pretty sick of you.

        Instead, the voters who believed him will eventually be forced to see through his lies, as least those capable of it. Wall Street will gorge until they choke! Again, like MLK, I refuse to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism. I love this country and her people but hate what it has become.

          1. AGAIN with the attitude of “My side is right and your vote/opinion makes you (fill in blank with put-down).”

        2. One takes time for an argument, tries hard, writes several, complete sentences – others answer with one word…
          #classy

          By the way, while I supported Hillary in the general, it’s as much Hillary voters fault Jill Stein isn’t president as it is Jill Stein voter’s fault Hillary isn’t president – that’s how a democracy actually works. It only matters if you get a majority, where that majority is coming from is irrelevant. As Hillary voters could’ve voted for Bernie in the primary, so could they’ve voted for Jill Stein in the general. Of course people can get mad and say “why should the majority change their vote for a small minority”, but that is of course a moral, not a pragmatic argument. If I actually fear a Trump presidency because of stubborn never Hillary voters, I can hold my nose and vote Stein – if every Hillary voter would’ve done that, if only to proof that they’re pragmatic to the core while Stein voters are extremists, Jill Stein would be president…

          Again, I was a Hillary supporter, I didn’t change my opinion accordingly, but at the end of the day it is a fair argument, that we should just respect other people’s decisions without judging and move on with our lives. The reason why Hillary isn’t president is that she couldn’t win enough votes – at the end it always comes down to this and nothing else matters. Not fairness, not reason, not rationality or logic, nothing, just winning. That’s true for Bernie too by the way. We can complain as long as we want about election rigging, closing polling stations, buying the DNC, media manipulation etc, but at the end of the day, yes, we want to run the country, people in charge don’t want that to happen, they’ll always fight us tooth and nail and with every dirty trick in the book – that’s a given, the only question that matters is, can we beat them?

        3. …it’s a quote from Shrek, but it aptly describes your stated position. Bernie wasn’t an option anymore after the primaries. Ultimately, in the general election, you went with the choice that made you feel good over the only available feasible option that would minimize the unnecessary additional suffering by countless people under the Trump administration. If you were in a purple state, you obviously felt that the risk of a Trump presidency was at least somewhat acceptable and by your own admission those who suffered under it are necessary collateral damage. You can vote however you like, but others can rightly offer their opinion that the time for voting only on the basis of exact policy alignment from candidates is during the primary. I think it’s “pretty sick” of you to use MLK’s quote in knowingly defending the ‘acceptability’ of the far worse of two bad options in the generals.

          Paris Agreement? Gone. Iran Deal? Trashed, in deliberate bad faith. New discriminatory blanket bans on people on the basis of national origin. Horrendous tax and health policy. Dismantling of net neutrality. Gorsuch (and Trump’s record number of judicial appointments) plaguing the US for decades. You should rest easy if you think “great pain” is needed, because they’re certainly going to feel it. For a long, long time – well after Trump is out of office.

          Maybe that trade-off was worth it to you, but don’t hold that position and pretend you’re in any way morally superior or more informed than those who tried to stem the bleeding and held their nose to vote Clinton in the general.

          1. Think big picture and long term. If we hadn’t elected Trump now, the next would’ve been far worse thanks to Hillary. It appears that some don’t learn from history. Do we want a Nazi-USA? Just look at all of them coming out of the wood work today. How many more would there be in more 8 years of corporations fucking everyone over? You don’t think right wing propaganda would spin that to blame immigrants, black people, etc? This is a rude awakening. But understand how the country feels now and extrapolate exponentially. Things wouldn’t be as bad now if we had Hillary, but they would prime a path for a far worse future.

            Having said that, I’m no fan of Trump. I’m just thinking past one election cycle. All the things Trump has done now can be undone. And actually, Trump needs to fuck things up so his base can finally wake up.

            Paris Agreement is symbolic. Iran deal still intact. Muslim bans? Slapped down every time. Tax/Health? Hillary would do the same. Net Neutrality? Obama tried to kill it. Gorsuch? Dems fault, hands down.

            nothingbeforeus is on the money. I’d like to think that progressives are a little more open minded, as we are willing to hear out different sincere arguments and consider adopting different rational ideas that are presented.

      2. I will also “click like” on your comment here but go ahead and apply it to all of your comments. I’ve read all 125 posts and replies on this page and you’ve saved me some time by making the points that you have. I try not to interject my thoughts/opinions everywhere I disagree (or agree) but on certain topics I find it harder to refrain. The belief that the country should risk potential fascism and certain increased suffering so that we can learn how to come together and be taught a hard lesson seems both cruel and downright stupid. If a person doesn’t believe fascism is a possiblity or exponentially increased suffering a certainty, then I don’t believe they were paying attention. People who voted in whatever way they did or refused to vote because of that sort of attitude is what infuriates me, not the vote itself. I continue to be appalled by the callousness or carelessness of some people. Side note, I’m a proud patreon supporter of TMBS and I think he is doing fantastic work. Out of all the voices on the left with a platform, both my husband and I align the most with Michael Brooks.

        1. This layout makes all the thread replies a bit confusing so to be clear, my comment above is meant for Mona_89.

        2. Thanks! I agree a lot with your comments in here too. It’s important to hear from those who voted Stein (in firmly blue or red states) but still remain cognizant of the realities of what the “never-Hillary/Trump is the lesser evil” attitude meant in purple states.

          I’m likewise very pleased at the work coming out of TMBS thus far. Brooks is doing a wonderful job providing another platform for interesting/informative discussions from a leftist perspective, without needing to pander to obsessive Clinton-haters by dismissing the harms posed by Trump or being willfully ignorant about Russia.

    2. Hmm, I think we could have learned the lesson under Clinton anyway and also had comparatively way better policies than Trump. I think that’s the argument and I agree with Cenk and Ana.

      Philosophically I could almost align myself with you, but when you get into the reality of it, and see environmental regulations being thrown out, a booming solar movement receding because of Trump policies, and then all the other immigration stuff it’s just too much at stake. The tax cuts alone are just devastating and as Cenk would say… brace for impact. Cenk and Ana were right. period. And They really want everyone to see that, including Jimmy Dore. A vote for Jill Stien was an emotional response to the situation and even if it didn’t affect the outcome it was the logically wrong decision.

    4. nothingbeforeus: If I had read your comment, I wouldn’t have taken the time to write mine…very well said, I concur:)

  69. Cenk and Anna – a big thank you for taking a stand on the issue of Sanders/ Trump/Clinton and the realities of the differing political landscapes in primaries vs. generals. You shouldn’t have to apologize for ultimately voting for the option that minimizes the harm posed to the most people in the general election. I’ve always found Bernie to be fantastically clear in this regard – he steadfastly advances progressive policies (and actively tries to create opportunities for cooperative improvement in his own party), while being front and center in the fight against the disastrous Republican legislation we’ve been seeing thus far.

    I appreciate and enjoy the main show’s acknowledgment of context in your commentary – it allows you to criticize both sides on matters of policy, but involves a realistic discussion of which actions by which groups need to be covered as priority matters in light of the existing power structure (I welcome the critique on corporate Dems’ domestic and foreign policy, but I absolutely expect and want to hear critiques of the groups who currently hold the actual legislative power to enact and enforce their own uniquely harmful policy agendas). You can do two things at once in speaking out against corporate Democrats and Republicans when warranted, and I think Cenk/Ana/John/etc. have been doing so admirably.

    Some people are just so narrowly focused on slamming Democrats 24/7 that they barely pay attention to Republicans (or in some cases even whitewash them – I can’t roll my eyes hard enough at videos with titles like “Clinton Colluded With Russia To Smear Trump During Election” or “Flynn’s Plea Is Another NothingBurger In Russiagate”). It’s the policy that matters, folks. I notice that Jimmy Dore’s “criticisms” of Trump primarily focus on inane shit like his goofy behavioral mannerisms/general stupidity – on the rare occasions when Jimmy talks about Trump’s policy (social, economic, or international) , he tends to ignore or downplay the bad while proactively devoting time to stories like “Trump Nails Bezos & Amazon On Corruption.” Come on. That isn’t being objective. Take a cue from Bernie Sanders and support progressive policy without having your judgment so clouded that you give a pass to very real harm effected by Republicans and the Trump administration. On a side note – for those looking for smart, nuanced political commentary from the “far left,” check out the Michael Brooks Show. So happy to see him on last week’s Friday power panel. Frankly, his show makes Jimmy Dore’s ‘coverage’ look like something from Mickey Mouse and Friends. #sorrynotsorry

    Anyways – Cenk/Ana, don’t sweat it. Some people just won’t be moved in their beliefs about things despite what sort of evidence comes about. There’s nothing that can be done about it. Keep doing you and know that many of us appreciate your perspective even if we don’t always make it known or may not always agree.

  70. “Did you really think Jill Stien would win?” Let me get this straight, Cenk… I shouldn’t vote for anyone unless they have a chance of winning? You are playing into the 2 party monopoly. We need real choice.

    1. I agree and disagree with you. Yes, you absolutely should vote for whoever you choose to do so no matter what those reasons are for your choice. Don’t be silenced, your vote is your voice! Imagine if a 3rd party candidate managed to gain 15% of the vote, then next time maybe it gets to 25%, then next time there will be a crisis and we’ll get change. That’s just one valid reasons among an infinite amount to vote for a 3rd party.

      The part I disagree with is that we will always have a two-party system unless our election laws are changed. That is because of a political theory known as Duverger’s Law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger%27s_law), I highly recommend that you read up on it if you aren’t well versed in Political Science, like the vast majority of us aren’t. We can have one party fall to be replaced by another party, or have a party split (like what happened to the Whigs) and then the dominant party from that split becomes the second party, but those are the only real options here under our current election system.

      That is why we need more than just party transparency, more than just reform in the Democratic Party, we need full electoral reform, we need to blow the whole election system up and start from scratch by looking at what works in the rest of the world and adopt a system like that, one that gives us true representational democracy, or even better we could adopt a theoretical direct democracy system like Internetocracy or the like.

    2. Sorry, the first line of my second paragraph is a little unclear. It should read “The part I disagree with is your assumption that you can get away with not playing into the two-party monopoly. We will always have a two-party system unless our election laws are changed.”

  71. As a loyal TYT viewer, I don’t understand the repeated bashing you are giving to those of us who have took a different approach to voting in the general election. I respect your decision to vote for Hillary. Why can’t you respect my decision to use my vote differently? The destructive power of the presidency has been unleashed overtly & covertly through many administrations. The problem is way bigger & deeper than who holds the chief executive’s office. Hillary might have taken us to war by now. Who’s to say? Let’s stick together & respect the idea that the diversity of our approaches can be a strength. Same goes for this Russia issue. I think you guys keep misrepresenting & over-simplifying my position & the position as generally laid out by Glenn Greenwald & Jimmy Dore. I don’t understand why you can’t refer to both viewpoints without making one out to be “stupid”. Be more mature. Keep TYT diverse & intelligently engaged in debate. This dumbing down is what’s offensive. Not to me personally, but to the original mission you profess to embrace.

    1. You ever taken a look at the Aggressive Progressive comment threads? Not a lot of respect given to different opinions there. And Jimmy’s the first to call people who voted for Hillary in the generals chumps/idiots/etc. even though many of them were understandably frightened and disturbed by the prospect of a Trump presidency…while also taking a noticeably more sympathetic approach towards Trump voters (‘they’re misunderstood, they’re victims of the system, they were right in wanting change, you can’t blame them for their choice but you sure can blame Democrats for all of it!!’). He intentionally stokes the ire of never-Hillarys (both on the left and right) because he’s caught on to the fact that his videos get more hits that way.

      1. @Mona – “He intentionally stokes the ire of never-Hillarys (both on the left and right) because he’s caught on to the fact that his videos get more hits that way.”

        – While I won’t agree with anyone, including Jimmy, telling other people that they were wrong to vote for Hilary, the reason Jimmy is saying everything he says is because that’s what he actually believes, and so do many of us. There’s the short term gameplan in which Hilary is better than Trump and the longterm gameplan in which Hilary would actually make real change take longer due to the “tranquilizing drug of gradualism”. You’re not wrong no matter which one you go for, is just the way you weigh things out.

        Those that voted for Trump (most of them, anyway, some of them really are Deplorables but I don’t think most are) got conned, suckered, exploited. Don’t hate them, their victims of a criminal. Lots of them are also victims of religion as well, and/or Fox News, so they’re so used to being lied to that they’re not used to the taste of truth.

      2. Ideologically and even in the analysis, we agree. But whatever happened to “we are better than them”? That was the left’s motto for, like, forever :-) Now everyone is on the “an eye for an eye” trip, has the argument “but the other side does it as well / started it” ever worked? I mean EVER ever..?

        I don’t think so.

        1. You yourself are calling people hysterical upthread (“whenever there is criticism from the left, left-wingers get extremely angry, agitated, stressed out, emotional, higher pitched voice, speaking faster, hard beat goes up, face turns red, it gets harder to breath”). Practice what you preach, etc.

          I’m curious why others have to take the high road when Jimmy and his camp insist on calling them idiots and morons for voting Sanders in the primary and Clinton in the generals. Maybe they should step out of their “Russiagate is a nothingburger” or “Clinton is the same as and/or would be worse than Trump!” bubble and try to productively engage with others without needlessly shitting on them. Sam Seder for example reached out to Jimmy to debate their differing perspectives on these issues, but Jimmy hasn’t returned the favor. He’s so used to preaching from a megaphone to his audience that he’s lost the ability to convincingly articulate his arguments during a real-time discussion with others on the left who disagree with him. Same goes for a lot of his followers.

          1. First of all, if that came across as criticism of anyone in particular, I’m sorry. Maybe the language barrier is too high, idk, English is indeed not my first language. It was just a general observation that the left deals differently with criticism from the left than with criticism from the right. And I, of course, include myself.

            It’s also just a general feeling that since Trump got elected, the left is more on the “an eye for an eye” train.

            I don’t know, “TheProgressiveVoice” said it was Jimmy making the offer and Sam had been the one who refuses to talk to him :-) And I still think it’s very important to differentiate different Russia issues. Whenever hear fans of both Kyle Kulinski and Cenk argue, one could be under the impression that they completely disagree on Russia. But when I listen to Cenk , he says that it’s not about collusion, but financial dealings, money laundering etc. Then I listen to Kyle and he is saying “I always said, the alleged financial dealings and money laundering is something Mueller should look into, that part is not a nothingburger”. So I wonder if people just like to disagree with one another, it’s harder and harder to believe that people are actually listening what ever “other side” is talking…

            1. I don’t think it’s fair to lump in Secular Talk and The Jimmy Dore Show/Aggressive Progressives (though I do think Steve and Malcolm actually offer thoughtful commentary when they’re on).

              Kyle has a far more reasonable view on Russia than Jimmy – even though I don’t always agree with him, he clearly acknowledges the real possibility of financial crimes and the necessity of an investigation while also sussing out that the ‘DNC hacking’ part (while true, and alarming) is simultaneously used as a crutch by some Dems against calls for internal platform improvement/action. He doesn’t needlessly try to soften Russia or dismiss the need for an investigation like you see with Jimmy. Kyle also has a much better track record than Jimmy in calling out both sides on bad policy, and doesn’t soften Trump the way Jimmy does on his own show.

              Kyle still works within the frame of reason and gives substantive critique on harmful policy by whichever group as it’s warranted. He also doesn’t obsess over hating Clinton or doesn’t actively try to dismiss valid criticism of Russia, which makes his show far more palatable. It’s also why he hasn’t cultivated as many compliments from conservatives and alt righters as The Jimmy Dore Show (seriously, compare/contrast the top comments on their videos).

              2. I agree with you on that one. I just wanted to emphasize again that my question above about the different reactions to left- vs right-wing criticism was not meant to be a criticism of Cenk or whatever. I don’t know if Jimmy is to the left of Cenk or Cenk to the left of Jimmy because of the right-wing applause.

                I also think that Aggressive Progressives is different than The Jimmy Dore Show, because of Steve and Malcolm. But I also have to say, that I understand Jimmy’s frustration. As John pointed out, how many people won’t fight during the primaries for a progressive candidate, because “at least anyone is better than Trump”. And if not on the “Trump is worth it” part, I do have to agree with Jimmy, that another corporate Dem presidency would increase the likelihood of Adolf Hitler III. as next GOP candidate. So we have to break the cycle somehow. But what is most frustrating is the fact that all the arguments that are made from smart people like yourself, objectively right/correct arguments, do and will get answered by a smirk from establishment guys. Every time anyone on the left says “we have to concentrate on fighting Trump”, I guarantee you, there is an establishment type, a Democratic consultant or a “power broker” who does think “Ha Ha Ha, I got ’em”. There are people in DC as we speak, making the exact same points Cenk is making, without actually sharing his opinion, secretly celebrating the Trump presidency, concentrating his/her own energy on fighting US, fighting progressives, fighting TYT, fighting Cenk, fighting Justice Dems and/or people on the left in general. So every time Jimmy calls people “chumps” etc. he’s wrong of course, people believe what they believe and you and, again, myself believe that a Trump presidency is not worth it. We actually believe it, and yet, people on the other end of Jimmy’s argument, the Perkins Coie of the world, actually share Jimmy’s argument, actually also believe we are chumps for, what they see as, “believing/trusting” them. I can see their smirk, I can hear their snickering, I know it’s true and I can feel it, because I know those people and had to endure their thinking before. You can find people like that in union leadership, in progressive organizations, in the Democratic party and in international left-leaning/center-left/liberal parties in Europe. Every time us “reasonable” people making reasonable arguments, they feel like winners and they think they beat us, they think they won and they laugh at us… So at the very least, I do get Jimmy’s frustration about those things, about those people. And that sh*t is going on for 20-30 years now, that sh*t is what lead to Trump in the first place, to a situation where a majority of people, a vast majority of people, lost trust in the system itself, in the institutions, in congress and the mainstream, especially TV news, media. I don’t know, the frustration is not 0.1% less real than Cenk’s and/or Ana’s frustration with people criticizing them for being “hacks” or whatever…

                We have to win in 2020, we have to … and by we, I mean an actual progressive, uncorrupted candidate, or that drama will continue and repeat itself with the tendency to get worse on all fronts for yet another 12-16 years…

    2. Exactly! Not I would be the type of person to tell Ana that she was wrong to vote for Hilary, she needs to stop telling those that didn’t that they were wrong. She insists that the rest of us aren’t dropping it, yet here she’s feeding it and keeping it alive. Just drop it already!

  72. Ana, Cenk, the TYT crew.

    Im not a member here because I agree with everything you say. So fuck the members that cant handle a little intellectual challenge. I disagreed with a few opinions you had this week alone? I’m not going to whine about it. I’ll listen, take it in, and use it to mold my opinion.

    As a smart woman once told me “you do you boo!”

    1. People are always going to tell you what to do without having all of the information. Those who resort to angry attacks against genuine actors generally have something else going on in their lives. Also, don’t FEED the trolls!
      Engaging with people like Ken Bone is productive, not so much paid bots. I do miss having Jimmy on the main show not as much; I worry that he’s gone too much into his own bubble.

      2. Jim is a bomb tosser, I disagree with him much less than the main show, but he comes correct and forms his own ideas. Respect to that. We need some aggressive progressives.
        I completely agree with you that the internet is filled with fake people. Its tough to sort out sometimes. Especially on the shithole black hole that is the youtube/twitter/facebook comment section.
        I agree to engage with people like Ken Bone, he voted for trump because us lefty libs couldnt offer a decent alternative, given a different message and candidate he would have voted another way.
        This is what happens when democrats put up a bland candidate. Hilary was mashed potatoes without any salt or butter, Trump was animal fries.
        If libs want to win, we need more style and substance. Take a bland ass politician and season them with a little jimmy dore attitude.
        -Tom Loring
        38 Years old
        Hyannis MA.
        (aka, a real person)

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