Post Game January 11, 2018

In Post Game - On Demand by Gigi Manukyan29 Comments

Ana, Matt Atchity, and Malcolm Fleschner discuss bullying and the impact it has on one’s entire life.

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  1. I believe that strength and growth can come from bullying eventually; however, in most cases it does more lasting damage than good. I wonder if Ana actually considered if what those kids did to her had an direct or indirect effect on her decision to change her nose.

    The panel is right that nobody walks alone in this world when it comes to abuse and bullying. More than likely there are people out there who have experienced the same or similar bullying. However, the one point I don’t think the panel touched on was that some instances of bullying can be much more complex to identify and deal with than others. Especially when some kids are ring leaders of the bullying behind someone’s back but act like their best friend face to face.

    From my own experience the panel is right again. People giving a pep talk or telling kids that everything will be alright essentially does little to nothing but to comfort the child temporarily because it doesn’t solve the problem that the bullying is causing long term. In most cases parents or adults in that child’s life need to take the time to examine what is going on and observe exactly how this is effecting the child as best they can. After figuring this out, then they can talk to the child about what they are dealing with, interject what they are observing, and offer suggestions and advice on how to cope with the situation and the damage that has been done to them. It is easier said than done. Some of these situations are complex and with so many families being duel income and some working 2 or 3 jobs their time to spend on parenting is limited as is because in these cases they are just trying to keep their family afloat.

    In hindsight both myself and my parents made mistakes dealing with this. For decades I strangely wound up blaming myself for the bullying that occurred and I became mentally and emotionally self abusive to maintain a level of worthless that I had become accustom to with my abusers. I simply didn’t trust myself or others around me when something good happened.

    I did wind up growing from this. I am a much better judge of character and have become extremely self aware. However, the after effects of what happened to me is still something that requires a good deal of my energy to deal with everyday of my life. it is helpful to know I am not alone in my struggles but I wouldn’t wish them on anyone.

    Overall, this was a good panel discussion though.

  2. I’m with you Ana.

    Smaller, fitted female tees would be GREATLY appreciated. I haven’t bought a TYT shirt because of the available styles there is nothing that would really fit well— I’d have to wear it to bed, and what’s the point in that?

  4. I agree with Anna!!!
    I would order so many more TYT shirts if they were fitted.
    I like to buy women’s fitted Tees in 2x (which is a Lg Unisex most places).

    1. Second this! Anna is right! Same reason why I haven’t gotten a shirt yet. I’m a teeny XS and those shirts are way too big.

  5. I also mentioned the issue with the shirts during the black Friday sales.
    All of witty, creative, and interesting shirt designs come *only* in men’s sizes. There are several pages of men’s shirts compared to the 1 page of women’s shirts with little more on them than the names of the shows. Can We get the interesting designs as well?? And yes, some nice, fitted, XS sizes would be greatly appreciated!

  7. Great Minds think alike, Anna. I would buy the shirts if they are fitted. Baggy clothes and body shame are a thing of the 80’s.

    I wasn’t bullied in school. I sometimes reflect, and regret that I didn’t help this kid that was being bullied.

  8. I went to my 45th HS reunion recently and the kid that bullied me non stop in High school had died. Sorry to say I was quite pleased.

  9. I remember the name of 2 people from my 7th grade class -the bully who tortured me,Billy B, and the hero who rescued me (who is now deceaased) Steve Harmon.

  10. Malcolm’s story about his son, and the differences in how special needs kids are treated today vs. 30 years ago, really stands out as an example of good political correctness. PC can be annoying in many ways, but in some cases society is much better off because of it.

    1. I really hope his story is representative, I really hope so…

      I don’t know, if it’s PC. But I do believe it’s all about the parents. While some parents might be shocked to find out their kids are bullies, I do believe that a lot of kid’s attitudes mirror their parents. If parents make fun of people or talk bad about them, their kids are more likely to do so as well. If kids grow up understanding that it’s wrong – and I mean really understanding, having empathy, not just getting told “you’re not allowed to say it” without explanation – they are far less likely to do so. The problem with PC (sometimes) is that kids know and understand / sense if their parents tell them they shouldn’t say certain things, but are actually more concerned about the backlash, instead of being convinced it’s wrong. In those cases I’m sure it’ll lead to a backlash at some point in time…

  11. Super interesting discussion! Always great to see Malcolm & I also appreciate Matt’s input.

    Unfortunately, it’s a very complex issue. I don’t think you can say there is a silver lining in bullying, in fact you have to find a way to fight back, and I mean the parents, the teachers etc. For the victim I agree, it’s just important to be there for them, if they wanna fight back you can help them. But if you are the victim, it already happened, you have to find a way to deal with it, and it can make you stronger, personally.

    I understand that you don’t wanna hear any of it while it’s going on and it is better to just be there for them, but here it becomes very complicated and a matter of perspective. The least thing you want to hear in that situation, I guess, is that someone else is definitely worse off. “Grow a pair”, “get over it” etc. all don’t seem very helpful, and yet…

    Picture yourself growing up in the middle of the country, abused by your father, bullied in school constantly, just for the clothes your family is able to afford, your mom never home, working 3 jobs, friends and family members addicted to opioids. The least thing you want to hear is “you’re privileged”, “you’re better off than most”, “you have all the power”. All of those statements are 100% correct, but you don’t wanna hear it, and after all, the people telling you this are better off than you, not worse. The people who are worse off are not on TV or YouTube. Those people all have different backgrounds, all had different issues to overcome, some had to deal with things you didn’t have to deal with, but a lot of them didn’t have to deal with the things you had to deal with and so all you see is people who (rightfully so) complain about housing, but have a condo, have a relatively safe job, are married, live a fulfilling life, while you are living in a trailer park with no perspective of ever earning anything, gender ratio is 9:1 against your favor, but you can’t leave, because you’re held responsible for taking care of your mom and other addicts and now “those people” are telling you how good your life is and that seeking out understanding and people listening to your story is pathetic and they keep blaming you for all the problems in this country. Now you are on a crossroads, right? Do you let those feelings get at you, do you harden and join the alt-right or white supremacist movements, hate women and the whole world or do you reflect your situation, see that it’s part of larger issues, that there are people worse of and only united under their leadership can you overcome your own issues?

    Do we have the empathy to help them make that decision, is that necessary, is that in and of itself a privileged view? Again, it’s a matter of perspective, so someone else can tell a very similar story, but with the guy in my story being the bad guy, or (just) the guy who has no right to tell him anything or ask for any help etc, because he still is privileged etc.

    Think about the boy who was bullied in school 2 weeks ago. Ana and Cenk talked about it, than Hannah on Think Tank, Francis on Facebook and I’m sure others as well. But the takes on it had been very different. Now there are two possibilities and we have no idea which one is true. 1) The guy was bullied and that had nothing to do with the political views of his parents/mother. 2) He was bullied for talking about the supremacy of white people, brought a confederate flag to school etc. From his perspective it may not be a difference though, he might just recognize that other people hate him, as he thinks for no reason, his mother is no help, but he’d definitely be a bully himself in case 2, right?

    How does he feel about maybe finding some coverage later, maybe Francis’ or Hannah’s, something more critical? Does he hate it, does he hate himself, does he blame his mother? If case 2 is correct, how do his classmates feel coming across the more positive coverage, seeing him getting free stuff from and meetings with black celebrities?

    I understand very much that, in those situations, especially as a kid you don’t wanna hear any of it, but ultimately I believe you can only really and fully get over the experience once you are ready to hear all that shit and reflect objectively… That’s the dilemma.

    1. “bullied in school constantly, just for the clothes your family is able to afford” and/or the video games you like to play

      For some reason I found it important to include there ;-)

  12. Great discussions and observations!

    On the one hand I agree with Ana because I went through a very similar experience in my youth with very similar positive long term results.

    On the other hand: A few years ago while speaking on the matter I was reminded that while some people do grow stronger due to the bullying….for many people the opposite is the case.

    The reality is that it takes a very strong person to come out stronger post-bullying, and that for many kids they bullying breaks them for life.

    Bottom line: Schools must have a zero tolerance policy on bullying and parents should be teaching their kids not to bully. It should also be remembered that bullying is not just physical…in fact the worst bully is typically verbal and involves ostracizing individuals.

  14. Although I dont condone violence and grounded him for a week after but when my son was in 8th grade another kid started making fun of handicapped black student and my son broke the bullets nose. I had a slight tinge of pride even though he pumched anpther kid

  16. Totally agree with Ana re. the shirt sizing/fits. I love the designs, but have not purchased any for myself because I am very petite and would need an XS in the women’s shirts… of which there is very few overlap with the men’s designs. On that note- please make more designs available in women’s tees/tanks!

  17. L-o-v-e that Matt is participating in shows outside of WTF lately. Always a fan of Malcolm. Ana should absolutely look into learning to sew. Having the skill and the equipment (which doesn’t at all require an expensive fancy-schmancy brand new computerized machine) can go hand in hand with interior decorating and design, not to mention fashion, and doggie bow-ties.

  18. LOL Dudes, in Hawai’i they are called Aloha Shirts. I promise.

    Also, Ana, you should just get them taken in. :-) I unfortunately can’t wear your guys’ shirts because I’m way too big for them. My kids love your shirts though.

    And I so agree with you guys about telling kids to not be upset. You don’t want someone to fix it, you want someone to be there for you. Of course you want teachers and what not to stop kids from bullying. It’s good to be there for someone. Unless someone asks for specific advice, just be there for them. I don’t tell my kids to get over it. I tell them to cry if they want, be sad or angry if they want, to be happy, or what ever. I’m just there for them and when they need more, I’m there for that too. :-) If you choose to have kids, you will grow with them. What you feel like now, may very well change as they grow. I think you’d be a good Mama.

  19. Being around athletics, I have often wondered why the deportment of older kids toward younger kids is not addressed. Much of the hazing / bullying in sports is institutionalized and mindlessly passed on from group to group. Why not actively teach the older kids to mentor and help the younger ones ? Create a positive overt atmosphere rather than a secretive negative one. Make it a mandatory curriculum for every coach and every player on every team in every sport in every school.

  20. I don’t think Ana really considers herself to be white. I know she says she is but that’s just l mean. White people don’t mention that their white . To me it seems as if she is trying to convince someone that she’s Caucasian. Also Armenians are not originally from the Caucus mountains. The Turks are but not Armenians. I’ve read they came from India which is a sub-black nation. They all have indigenous features dark skin dark hair fuller noses and lips the evidence is in the mirror.

    1. Oh boy, here we go.
      First of all, yes the Armenian ethnic group originated in the Caucasus.
      http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Gazetteer/Places/Asia/Armenia/_Texts/KURARM/home.html
      They do not come from India. Several groups, such as the Hittites, Nairi (Assyrians), and the Kingdom of Urartu (Ararat in the Bible) contributed to the Armenian gene pool.
      Armenians are Indo-Europeans, the group which “white” people belong to. In fact, some scholars argue that the Armenian highlands are the area where the original Indo-Europeans were from.
      To be fair to you, Indians are also Indo-Europeans (a very general statement, as their have been multiple migrations into India throughout history and the population genetics are very complex and currently the subject of research). At the same time, India is incredibly ethnically diverse and saying “They all have indigenous features (such as) dark skin…etc” just simply is not true.
      “Race” in and of itself is a fallacy. Ethnicity? yes that is real. It refers to the to one’s genetic makeup and where various contributions to the genome came from.

      No, Ana is not trying to convince people she’s Caucasian. She is Caucasian. There are no ifs, ands, nor buts about it.

      1. so r u playing hard to get answers now?

        u still havent fulfilled ur promise to telling us ur Armenian Christening name?

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