TYT Old School November 30, 2017

In Membership, TYT Old School - On Demand by Gigi Manukyan71 Comments

Cenk, Steve Oh, & Jimmy Dore talk Matt Lauer’s trap lock button, Steve’s sexual assault, sending dick pics, Islam coming in Cenk’s favor, Steve’s womanizing skills in college, initiation week, minimum wage, and Cenk’s dad never becoming a smuggler.

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  4. I haven’t watched yet but just reading the description I’m left to wonder why they describe it as womanizing ‘skills?’
    Those aren’t skills, those are tactics, and pretty reprehensible ones at that.

    I’ll come back and amend my statements if I feel any differently after I watch.

  5. Guys. About the dick picks. You guys are male and straight. Of course you think dick pics are as attractive as lawn chairs. You aren’t attracted to dicks. But women and gay men ARE attracted to dicks.

    Women do not get pissed off so often about dick picks because they aren’t attracted to dicks, they so often get pissed off because women are HOUNDED by men 24/7. Occasionally women will send men nudes, and it’s a thrill. But if you were HOUNDED by women incessantly sending you their nudes(women of all qualities, whether you’re attracted or not, whether you voiced interest in them or not), then you’d start to feel dehumanized and offended.

    2. Right, they totally assume that a man receiving an unsolicited pic would be from a woman who they would be attracted to and have interest in sleeping with. They should imagine getting them from any and every woman and how uncomfortable that would make them feel.

    4. Actually, I want to elaborate in case others believe the same and still haven’t heard women, including Ana on one episode, explain this.

      It’s probably different for gay men, but the overwhelming majority of women I know are not attracted to a man’s penis. Women are attracted to his face, physique, etc. Men receiving nude photos from women can elicit a different response because men and women are usually stimulated differently (e.g. some women like trashy books and men like visuals). The problem with dick pics is that they’re unsolicited. Whether you think the woman likes you or not doesn’t matter. Did she ask for a picture? Probably not. The only time I can even fathom a woman being okay with it is if she’s cruising dating sites and is wondering about his size. But even then, I think the majority of women find that a turn off and would go for a guy that’s at least pretending to be classier.

      Point is, this dick pic can be the first time a woman’s ever been “hounded” by any man, and she’ll still hate it. Don’t send it unless she explicitly asks, and she probably never will.

    5. 100% disagree. I was caught totally off-guard when a young guy sent me a dick pic–not a turn on at all even if I liked it a lot “face to face”. He, on the other hand, loved to get naked pictures from me even if I obscured my face for protection against any future blackmail.

  6. Finally got to watch this Old School after a week in the UK and getting back to a crazy workload in Tokyo a week later.

    Ain’t Jimmy the life of the party? Ain’t nobody drinkin’ beer outta HIS ass or pushing any buttons in the room on him. He ain’t gotta be 5’11”, Stef’ll come over and go upside your head for you with due diligence.

    I went to Penn like Cenk and didn’t join any ‘…ity’ like Cenk. I’ve heard of drinking the Kool-Aid but vomit?? Dag Steve, that’s one hell of a pledge you made it through without going THAT far. You found ways to stay a good guy especially with the ladies, most of whom I am sure had never seen or experienced a nice guy before.

    Cenk said people change and we’re not the same people we were when we were younger, but I disagree. I think the core of a person never changes. It’s like that interview Cenk did with George Halvorson back in May about kids’ brains forming a pattern for life from age 3, there are things buried within us since babyhood waiting to be released that may not be apparent while we are trying to find ourselves. That’s not change, that’s development on the already fixed core. Cenk was always progressive, he just didn’t know it while he was looking for himself.

    Women are gross too, Steve. They can leave a bathroom pretty funky too, and they can BE funkier than a lot of homeless men I’ve seen/smelled. They can do things in groups of women that’d knock your socks off more than men drinking beer off asses, too, you just don’t hear about it a lot because A) women tend to be more secretive about these subjects and B) any men around or with them getting wind of these things hush it up to avoid embarrassment. Funny how talk about ‘disgusting men’ gets around more than disgusting women.

    EXCELLENT Old School, love to Cenk, Steve and The Doreman, you guys take EXTRA care, smoke particles can be just as hazardous as the fires.

    Thanks Gigi for the notice, you all take good care of yourselves first so you can be there for us later.

  8. Author

    Hey members,
    Due to the Skirball fires in Los Angeles, many of our hosts could not make it in to the studio today; therefore, Old School for December 6 has been cancelled.

    1. on the post game last night, Cenk was sayin it was still on. Thats really too bad, got my hopes up. Stay safe.

  9. @karma101 @vanBronco @Dicrostonyx @John Leaman @Member_0815 @marazona @jarheadpena @Aimee V @berlinblue1706 @CarolSiriusb @drdan @discotec @fake_brasilian @hasaang @tlcool0 @kemstone @calpittman @chetzmom @reba @Steve Oh @dagmara @Sam @robertjordan18 @Cadenita07 @cinderaella @etpol01 @Arcbound Ravager @alex143656 @diremoon @Adam @immortal_champion @Berry Noice @sinistersalami @CJacquot @jaymeister @k0m0rebi @Justin @FEEDME @Gigi Manukyan

    I try to tag u all to draw question to cenk’s stories on Islam.

    Ataturk installed weird ideas of what it means to be “Religous”. The father of Turkiye created a situation where there were out of contexts claims about Quran and Sunnah that twisted average Turks’ understanding of Islam. the assumption that Islamic teachings = Christian teaching was the basis of these understanding/claims.

  11. We always had warm nuts, specifically, freshly roasted nuts with a little bit of salt in my childhood! Warm nuts win.

  12. You know what? Growing up in Germany I still have a hard time sometimes getting American views on both the human body, but also sex and sexual attraction :-)

    In Munich there is a naked beach in the middle of the city. Old, young, thick, thin, small tall, male, female – they enjoy the sun, the wind, their freedom – it has nothing to do with sex. But I can imagine American’s being all worried about how sexually attractive they are in that setting. Fast Forward to Americans being in a strip club – a consensual setting for the sole purpose of enjoying the art of sexual play/seduction. Now all of a sudden you guys think about “losing”, how other imaginary people would judge you for enjoying/ not enjoying yourself, if and for how long to keep eye contact :-)

    You guys are really funny, remind me of the guy who can’t concentrate on his speech for sexual thoughts – a speech he wrote unfortunately in his head while having sex with his wife :-)

    Tell me, do you guys ever actually live in “here and now” / enjoying yourself instead of worrying about the judgment/imaginary/possible judgment of people that you already agree and are 100% convinced have no god damn business judging you :-)

    I don’t really know if my attitude comes from growing up in Germany or just smoking a lot of weed tho :-)
    But while no editor in Germany would go out of their way to cut out a nipple or even frontal nudity of people showering or in a Sauna, I’ve never seen a burger humping ad in Germany – so there is something weird going on in America, that’s for sure :-)

    You gotta relax guys, you gotta relax

    1. I’m from Canada, but I’ve lived abroad and travelled a lot so I can see both sides of it to some extent.

      The big thing to keep in mind when trying to understand why the US is so rigid about sexuality is why the original colonists came to North America. In the 16th – 18th centuries, Europe was slowly becoming more secular, and the more extreme sects were dying out, so those people came to “the New World” where they could practice their extreme interpretations of the bible in peace.

      Puritans, Baptists, Quakers, and later Methodists are actually some of the most mainstream of the sects. Have you ever heard of the Shakers? They practice in absolute celibacy, even between married couples. At their height they had 6,000 members. Today there are 2.

      The point is that as Europe was becoming more progressive and secular, that was in part because all of the most conservative elements came here. So as places like Germany were shedding themselves of old traditions, it was becoming entrenched in the US.

      Then World War I happened and fundamentalism went up globally, but that’s a long discussion.

  13. Oh boy :-)

    You know I love you guys, but I think you still don’t really get, what sexual assault and rape are actually about.
    Those crimes ARE NOT crimes out of passion, sexual attraction or misunderstood/”wrongful” flirting or chivalry – THEY ARE about power and control.

    The reason why “we don’t talk about physical appearance anymore” is because it blurs the issue. If a guy was decent and worried about his physical appearance or “his chances” or whatever because he looks LIKE Weinstein, Aisles or Farenthold (“gross”), I would actually feel bad for him, I’d have empathy for the guy. That’s why I also don’t like the “he can’t get laid” attack – someone’s a homophobe, terrorist, murderer, racist – “yes these acts are bad, but remember guys, he also can’t get laid! Ha Ha Ha”. No, the actual crimes are bad – anyone else getting or not getting laid is none of my business.

    The difference between theoretical guys that “look like” Weinstein, Aisles, Farenthold, Rose etc. is that THEY ARE sexual predators. THAT’s the problem. In other words: Of course Charlie Rose knows he’s “The Crusty Paw”, he knows women won’t fall for him coming out of the shower let alone rubbing his penis against their shoulder – so did Weinstein, Aisles or Lauer. They get off by the idea that the women don’t like it, they do it BECAUSE it makes them uncomfortable, that’s why they do it, that’s what turns them on. It’s all about the idea that they can do whatever they want, that the women have no chance of fighting back, that they are in control, in total control of the situation and the other person’s feeling.

    It is super important to acknowledge that reality, because otherwise we’ll make mistakes going forward. You said for example, I’m paraphrasing, “they always look like Aisles or Weinstein – the Gosling’s of the world would never do that”. That’s a wrong and dangerous proposition. The Aisles, Weinsteins, Farentholds of the world play into a societal narrative – that’s why it’s “easier” for women to come out against them. The hard it was for so many years to come out, the protection they had etc. – even more protected, even harder it is to come out against those who are powerful AND “hot”. Isn’t it ironic that your own story Steve involved women who are relatively attractive and how you felt about it / that it made it harder to talk about it? The guy Ana talked about on the main show – she said she finds him relatively attractive. There are countless articles and interviews of/with women stating that Bill Clinton was an super attractive/charismatic guy – that didn’t keep him from doing things (and NO I’m not talking about Monica Lewinsky) that were more than questionable and most likely sexual assault or even rape – I’m not even talking necessarily about President Clinton, but Governor Clinton..?

    The idea that good looking / attractive guys “who can get laid” are less prone to sexual assault or rape is problematic to say the least. It may even make it more likely / definitely more likely to get away with it:

    a) a guy who “gets” 9 out of 10 women can become super entitled and think of the 10th women’s rejection “of course she doesn’t really mean it”.
    b) how much harder do you think is it for women to come out if they are worried that their friends and possible support have the same reaction your friends had when they heard the women were attractive?

    I had a short conversation about the same issue under a different video. Another member brought it up herself as she was talking about Bill Clinton…
    https://tytnetwork.com/2017/11/22/tyt-hour-1-november-22-2017/#comment-162934

    1. Yet the line between consensual and non-consensual seems like it could so easily be mistakenly crossed, especially if one or both parties are under the influence of one or more chemicals.

      Maybe I’m just seeing the examples that make the news and thinking every situation that involves a mistake of that sort leads to a crime.

      I suppose the true measure would be whether someone stops if they do mistakenly cross that line, and then realize it has been.

  14. Cenks second dream did become true, founding The Young Turks, Wolfpack and Justice Democrats, his influence on the revolution should there be one is only rivaled by Bernie Sanders (at least among people who are fighting for a revolution, there are people on the other side that might inspire it even more).

  16. I couldnt agree more with Steve about strip clubs. Its a lose lose for me. If a girl’s hot and you get turned on, sucks for you you have to go home alone. If the girls aren’t hot, sucks for you you just waster however much money you spent in there. Ive never understood the point of strip clubs.

    1. Hey guys, I’m a big fan of Aggressive Progressives and am grateful there’s a place for discussing politics that is relatively sane. That being said, your discussion and outrage about sexual harassment here was sadly off the mark – while laughing in horrified shock at the behavior of monsters for over half an hour, and detailing it, you actually diminished their monstrosity. As if there was a ‘right’ way to get these women to have sex with them, and not the criminal (yet still somehow laughable) wrong way??? Watching you guys made me uncomfortable and sad – you still don’t get it. And when Jimmy tells women (Nov 30, Agg Prog) that high waisted jeans don’t “fucking” work as a way to be attractive – WTF? You can talk all you want about how you want YOUR ass to look in your jeans, sure. But only men who think that women’s asses should look good FOR MEN – yes, guys like Weinstein, Ailes, etc – would complain about how women’s jeans look. Think about it.

  18. OMG – no wonder the planet is so f’d up. How can men be such pigs and still pretend to be adults and useful?

  22. Not all Americans dream of making a lot of money. Teachers, many academics, artists, social workers, many government workers, and others are focused on either public service, working in a field they love, or both. There may be a justified resentment that they are underpaid for their contributions to society, especially when they bear or have borne the expense of advanced education and ongoing training, but they accept the lower income to pursue what matters more to them.

    Apart from the moral argument for sharing the wealth within a society, particularly when those at the top hog the wealth mainly for bragging rights and power rather than actual personal needs, there is the argument that a functioning society requires the efforts of many people filling different roles in that society. This is illustrated by the off-color joke about the different parts of a human body arguing about which is most important. After presentions by heart, brain, liver, etc., when the rectum makes its claim the others ridicule it. The rectum then goes on strike, resulting in such devastation to the body that the others give in. In the joke, this is given as the reason why assholes run everything. However, this truly illustrates that a functioning society requires the cooperation and interaction of many different roles, and so all should share in the benefits produced by that functioning society. Remarkable how those in management or finance make the decision that their roles are most important and as decision-makers reward themselves extravagantly and pay the others as little as supply and demand will bear. This is not based on the actual value of the others’ contributions. If the others don’t do their jobs, the managers would have nothing. It is simply based on a lack of power by the others and established habit.

    One group you appear to overlook in the minimum wage issue are dayworkers. These are people who do not have continuous jobs. They must get their work through temp agencies and hiring corners and only get paid when they find work. Even if they manage to get an hourly rate greater than minimum wage (no sure thing), the limited work hours they find results in a low income without benefits. In some cases, like “hiring corners”, the workers don’t even have a temp agency to handle social security and other benefits. They just are picked up for spot work by contractors and others, possibly paid in cash, and are very marginal.

    1. Such a great point and one I haven’t thought about before. It’s such a joke when conservatives try to paint climate change as a plot by scientists to retain their treasured positions and careers, because scientists are not generally paid much–they do it out of love and a search for the truth and have no incentive to lie about the subject. Every working person has a valuable role in the human ecosystem, but now we have millions and millions of working people unable to save a dime and the 1%, who have more than they or their offspring could ever spend. It’s sick.

  23. I have to comment just to thank TYT for saving Old School!!! This network is absolutely awesome when it comes to hearing fans’ concerns and taking them seriously. LOVE YOU GUYS!!!

  24. I played rugby for my university’s lady team and we would “shoot the boot!”…some women, would understand, Jimmy! :)

  25. Whisper of a dream … that Bernie is running in 2020?

    What about HA Goodman screaming about HILLARY saying she’s running for a THIRD time in 2020?
    Is that true, or is that a nightmare???

    If Bernie runs & Hillary runs, the DNC & MSM will cheat & steal the election AGAIN.
    And we will have Trump for 4 more years … or for how ever long he decides he wants to be king, I mean Prez.

  26. Ugh, I just can’t with the Louis CK asked for permission bullshit. A mugger might ask permission to take your wallet but that doesn’t mean you have much of a choice. Imagine if a mugger kept saying that, but I asked first! WTF kind of defense is that? Your victims did not voluntarily give you their wallets, you fuck.

  27. My 23 yo son yday told me that if you say to a woman at work, “you look nice today,” it’s being called sexual harassment. Wait – what?!?

    I think there is a danger of lumping everything into one pot.

    Since I’ve worked with the public since I was 14 and I’m now 52, I have come across men saying varying levels of stupid shit. If a coworker or customer said I “looked nice today,” I would say thank you. I imagine it would also matter HOW they said it, but geez louise, that is not the same as a dude slapping your ass. It’s just not.

    Have I ever made randy-jokes around with co-workers? Yes. Would my male co-workers call it sexual harassment? Probably not. It also depends if your friends and get along with them.

    Have I ever felt uncomfortable, trapped, or threatened by something a customer has said or done? Yes. Fortunately, I usually mentioned it to a coworker, and it ended there.

    I just worry that the spotlight on this may desensitize people.
    Like when Hillarybots cry that every mean thing someone says about poor, delicate-flower Hillary is sexist.

    1. Hi Aimee,

      Yes, all of my childhood dreams came true! These were my dreams as a boy growing up in NJ.

      – Go to an Ivy League school (this was my parents wish so I wanted to do it for them)
      – Live in California
      – Marry a kind, smart, fun, funny, beautiful woman
      – Have at least one cute daughter that I can adore
      – Work in a job I love
      – Make enough money to provide for my loved ones
      – Travel to interesting places around the world

      I am extremely grateful that things have worked out so far. I am very cognizant that it was a combination of hard work, good luck, and help from so many others in small and large ways. I hope to extend the same opportunities that I had to others.

      Thanks for being a member and supporting the show!!!

      Best,
      Steve

  30. On the dick pics issue, I think the thought goes a bit further – ‘either this will work and it’ll turn her on, otherwise, I don’t care, at least I tried and she’s gonna have to look at it now’. With these guys there’s definitely a mess up sense of what they get to do to women and the woman’s agency. They assume that if she says she doesn’t like it either at best she’s lying (to the guy, or herself) and at worse it doesn’t matter. Either way what the woman says she wants is disregarded. And that’s because these guys have to lie to themselves about how much women want them because deep down they’re desperately insecure, deeply self-loathing and they have to constantly pretend that women will find them attractive – that they should. That it’s an injustice if they don’t so ‘here, you have to see my dick now’. It’s pathetic really. The dick pic is the best thing they can come up with to get women interested in them because they’ve discovered they can’t charm or intrigue women in other ways.

    1. On individuality, I think there are a lot more people than we think he struggle with mastering their own individuality. They don’t know who they are, they don’t feel confident about themselves. And because of that, they search for groups. They like the idea of being given a role, a purpose, and sense of place – that’s what makes them feel valued. So if that means obliterating what makes them unique, then so be it. I think you can see this with the groups that humans form. Ultra-nationalists, religious extremists etc. It’s why people do volunteer for the army – because they want to be given something they can identify with

  31. > I do think that Facebook absolutely has the right to censor whatever they wish

    Then you support the installation of a vast corporate censorship regime. Facebook dominates social media so much that it has effectively appropriated a large chunk of our public dis course. But instead of accepting that this makes them a public institution in all but name, they hide behind this logic that they “are a private corporation and therefore can do whatever the f**k they want with the speech/private data they control.” It’s obviously a dishonest argument and a shirking of social/political responsibilities.

    Secondly, Facebook’s rules and the enforcement of them – i.e. their censorship – are 1) non-transparant, 2) non-democratic, and 3) have no recourse mechanisms for those who object. This is unlike the free speech restrictions exercised rightly by the government (e.g. no slander, no child porn, etc.) because they are at least voted on by your elected representatives. A private corporation will censor with zero accountability.

  33. Jimmy’s comments on sexual assault and sexual harassment are Aggressive Un-Progressive. I am glad that Cenk stepped in and tried to first rein it in, and then changed the topic. The types of jokes that he was attempting to make are exactly what is currently changing from being accepted in society.

    1. So humor and satire must be censored? The freedom to joke in any way you please is a vital weapon against the powerful, actually. Also a weapon against corporations which would gladly dictate the terms of your censorship regime, e.g. Facebook deleting any jokes it finds “inappropriate” (“No more jokes where the Zuck is the Butt, if you please! That’s just never published from now on.”)

      1. I was not referring to censorship, but rather the change in attitudes where the jokes about what a person is wearing invites sexual assault not ok. Would you feel the same way if they were extremely racist jokes? Those aren’t accepted in society either – and yet at one point it was perfectly acceptable. When you make those types of jokes, in a way you create an environment that makes racism, sexual assault, sexual harassment, homophobia, etc acceptable. Not that it has anything to do with my post or “my censorship regime”, but I do think that Facebook absolutely has the right to censor whatever they wish. They are a private corporation, and like any private organization, they absolutely do have the right to censorship within their platform.

        1. > I do think that Facebook absolutely has the right to censor whatever they wish

          Then you support the installation of a vast corporate censorship regime. Facebook dominates social media so much that it has effectively appropriated a large chunk of our public dis course. But instead of accepting that this makes them a public institution in all but name, they hide behind this logic that they “are a private corporation and therefore can do whatever the f**k they want with the speech/private data they control.” It’s obviously a dishonest argument and a shirking of social/political responsibilities.

          Secondly, Facebook’s rules and the enforcement of them – i.e. their censorship – are 1) non-transparant, 2) non-democratic, and 3) have no recourse mechanisms for those who object. This is unlike the free speech restrictions exercised rightly by the government (e.g. no slander, no child porn, etc.) because they are at least voted on by your elected representatives. A private corporation will censor with zero accountability.

  34. Ironic, isn’t it, that they’re merrily blab about Lauer for half an hour, and wallow in all that, but won’t even mention Jordan Chariton, not even indirectly.

    You’re officially wasting your time at TYT, James. You haven’t even been let unto the Main Show since November 8.

    1. Yeah, the way they’ve disappeared Jordan Chariton would make any soulless corporation proud. MSTYT.

      Seems like JC has also gone mostly quiet. Hard to really know how he would want to be supported at this point.

    2. They are actually being gracious by not bringing up Jordan, whether he is guilty of bad behavior or not. Maybe they are also protecting themselves legally speaking. But his firing offenses seemed more extensive than just sexual misbehavior, like abusing TYT funds and even bad-mouthing Cenk and TYT while being paid by them. If it was just that one girl’s story (which said more about her than him), I doubt it would have earned him a firing.

  38. I don’t understand why people start crying when it isn’t uploaded instantaneously. It’ll be ready when it’s ready. What difference is it going to make to your life if you have to wait one or two days to watch it.

  39. People need to chill. They changed OS back to the evenings for us, and for those of us who don’t watch the live stream then, we get it some time the next day. That’s entirely reasonable. Granted I’m one of the first to howl when it’s more than a day though :-)

    1. They film it after their regular show and by the time its done they dont have time to upload it so they do it the following day. It has always been like this hasnt it?

  41. Excellent episode. I love when Steve is on because he’s the only one who can really take the piss out of Cenk, even more than Ben or Dave.

    1. Author

      Old School ALWAYS goes up the day after it’s live and is ALWAYS the date that it is published. The only exception was Thanksgiving week, when the studio was closed Thursday & Friday, so editors had to stay in late to have everything ready to go up Wednesday.

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