TYT Hour 2 November 10, 2017

In The Young Turks Hour 2 - On Demand by Gigi Manukyan73 Comments

Cenk, Grace Baldridge, & Simone Boyce. Louis CK confesses to sexual assault. Ellen Page sexual assault. Lupita Nyong’o slams UK mag for photoshopping her hair. Tiffany’s selling $1,000 tin can and other ridiculously priced items.

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  1. I understand both sides of the argument. Here is how I see it. If he is more powerful than a woman, and he asks to do something like beat his meat in front of her, I don’t think that is an issue. He’s asking for consent. The problem is when you either do it without consent (that’s sexual harassment), or when she denies consent, you retaliate. Then, I think, it becomes an issue. From the women’s side, they seem to be afraid of the retaliation of them saying no the most, whatever that retaliation may be. And it’s not guaranteed that if they report the retaliation they face, there will be any retribution for them. Putting yourself in the woman’s shoes, seeing things from her perspective, the fear of being cornered by a powerful man and what saying no might mean is definitely not to be underestimated, and should def be taken into account, especially since we know that our legal system protects tf out of powerful men

  3. I have to disagree with the Lupita Nyong’o issue and agree with Cenk. If you look at the before and after images, the photoshopped hair isn’t more eurocentric looking. IMHO, the hair in the before image is rather lame- regardless of its texture, its just uninteresting and it detracted from the overall image. I can see an art director making the call that the shaved head look is a better image and not because its eurocentric looking. This is so different than the Solange issue. Maybe they should have gotten a stylist that knows how to work with african textured hair.

  4. Cenk is a hero for going out there and both listening and providing a male view. If this is indeed a watershed time in history, it’s paramount that legitimate discussions from multiple perspectives be heard.

  5. The dude fucking asked. Even if the way he did it or the way he said it was fucked up, he fucking asked! He didn’t try to blackmail and he didn’t say anything about their career. He’s losing everything by asking women dirty shit. This guy just lost everything for asking to beat off, he too has a family and bills to pay just like anyone else.

    I had a boss that asked me to give her a ride after work once and during that ride, she asked me what I wanted to do. I told her no, just drop her off and she continued to flirt. She said would do anything with me and making sexual gestures and putting her hand on my leg. I simply said I’m good, that I got shit to do. Should she lose her job and all future jobs because she liked me and wanted to fuck? I don’t think so. She didn’t threaten me, she didn’t fire me and we continued to work just fine together with no issues. Just because there is a power dynamic, it doesn’t make it wrong. Many people fuck and marry their bosses.

    1. Thank you for putting it so well. What he did was creepy, troubling and disgusting, but given that he sought consent and that none of the these people actually worked for him, I am not sure if it was illegal. Grace was really over-reaching on this segment. In the case of the comedian who was performing at an event LCK was headlining, she totally exaggerated the power dynamic.

  6. I’m sorry I have to voice this. Cenk is right on this, these LCK stories not at all the same as e.g. the Weinstein stuff. Some of it is hardly a “crime” IF a crime at all. It is much closer to a conversation of morally right or wrong, but not criminal.

  7. Just finished listening to Grace Baldridge’s ep “Of The Things That Matter.” If you are looking for it on iTunes, it’s listed under the name “Semler.” If you’ve got some money to spend, you can buy four fantastic songs on iTunes for $3.96 or you could buy a $9000 ball of yarn at Tiffany’s. Be frugal. The songs are awesome.

  8. LCK’s first expression of romantic interest should never be (unless it’s a paid transaction between consenting adults) “may I please whip it out and jerk it?” NOOO! It’s way too much – the person on the other side has a good chance of feeling dirty and taken down to the gutter (maybe for the first time like this). Would McK want a stranger to approach his daughter or niece like this?

    1. @PAtfat, It doesn’t matter what he said the fact is he asked, even if it was the stupidest most fucked up question or pickup line he fucking asked. You can use that parent line for anything dirty or what you think is immoral for you or your family but you cant judge everyone else for your moral’s.

    2. Not disagreeing with you in any shape or form. I’m just slightly intoxicated (very drunk). Who is McK? I apologize for this. I should probably know.

  9. Holy shit, thank fuck Cenk was there during the Louis CK story. Grace was not coming at that from a rational place at all. All she wanted to do was condemn Louis CK. To each their own, but I was almost ripping my hair out listening to her dodge logic coming from Cenk.

    1. Something that I realized today: what you (and I) consider logic is not necessarily what the other sex considers logic (I’m assuming you’re a cis-male. I apologize if that is not the case. Please correct me if I’m wrong in that assumption.)
      Anyways, what I’ve learned is that we, as males, need to be aware of how females (and males, cough, Kevin Spacey, cough….and anyone else tbh.) perceive any requests we (males) make, especially when we’re the ones in power. Those in power (male or female) MUST be aware of the influence they wield and act accordingly (i.e. not ask to masturbate in front of them.)

  10. Always enjoy it when you have Grace Baldridge on the show. She has a calm, professional manner and hope you’ll feature her more on your shows.

  11. I must debunk this poll I referred to. It was not a poll, but a quote from Margaret Atwood. She had asked a man and a group of women what they fear most about the opposite sex. See the article “Women’s worst nightmare” by Mary Dickson at PBS.org. An article about her experience while working on the documentary “No Safe Place: Violence Against Women.

    With this article in mind, I still urge careful thought before dismissing a victim’s story.

  12. First, I don’t know of any corporation, business, or volunteer organization that is OK with a man unzipping his fly if not alone or there is even a remote chance of someone walking in. Such behavior SHOULD be squashed and have consequences. Management should scare him so bad that he really feels like he dodged a bullet.

    Second, many men don’t, understand the dynamics of when a man you work with (boss or not) is standing between you and the door and making unwanted advances or propositions. Most women would be frightened and thinking, “How can I de-escalate this situation without getting raped, injured, or killed.” Women don’t hate men, but some men are rightfully feared. It’s not OK to use work as a good place to ask for a date. If you do, you should be very careful about it and maybe try talking to the person outside of work and in a setting where she/he feels safe (ie a restaurant with a decent amount of traffic).

    Lastly, a decade or so ago, there was a poll that asked, “What do you fear most about the opposite sex.”

    The most prevalent answer from men : “ I’m afraid they will laugh at me.”

    The most prevalent answer from women: “I’m afraid they will kill me.”

    The men being accused now were in or coming into power when this poll was taken. Of course you can always find some women who dispute this poll,but the most prevalent answe was, “I’m afraid they will kill me.”

    Working with men can be extremely difficult. Safely finding men to date and consider for a serious relationship is extremely difficult for a lot of women.

    Please consider this before dismissing a victim’s story.

  13. I agree with Cenk. This Louis C K thing is different. Asking does matter. I think CK is just a slob and idiot. No woman wants to see a guy jack off in front of them.

  14. I’m glad the Weinstein, Ratner, and other folks who clearly crossed the power/consent line, but I also agree with Cenk in the sense that we’re going to eventually take away someone’s career, family, and reputation for having an unzipped fly in the office. This is an exaggeration of course, but we (all people) need to avoid a witch hunt.

    That being said – we all need to listen to the victims, actively listen to them, and then put one foot in front of the other and DO.

    I’m in a mentor-ship/seasoned position in my industry, and I thank the sun/moon/stars I never did crap like this (with men, or women based on my orientation).

    The victims come first. Men, trans, women, non-binary. Children especially. Blessings to Corey Haim (RIP), Corey Feldman, Ellen Page, and all those who have spoken.

    Also, Gal Godot needs to punch Brett Ratner in the nuts.

    1. Edit on first paragraph:
      I’m glad the Weinstein, Ratner, and other folks who clearly crossed the power/consent line – called out – but I also agree with Cenk in the sense that we’re going to eventually take away someone’s career, family, and reputation for having an unzipped fly in the office. This is an exaggeration of course, but we (all people) need to avoid a witch hunt.

    2. Where’s the witch hunt? The people who have been accused have either admitted the allegations are true or there is evidence that the allegations are true. That’s not a witch hunt. Worrying about a witch hunt when there is none going on is kind of the opposite of listening to the victims, because the phrase “witch hunt” suggests that the victims aren’t being honest.

  15. Hearing about these sexual harrassment cases makes me feel like that South Park episode. Do you like a character on Game of Thrones? They’re gonna die. Do you like a certain celebrity? They sexually harrassed someone.

  16. Simone Boyce FAILED to end execution…..and no one noticed?!

    Also, Cenk burned Feminism; We need to acknowledge that if u use public opinion to check&balance people. Public opinion will Rank people, NOT the Guilty and victims.
    If we trust science to measure our situation MAYBE we can have more Objective ranking scale, but i don’t hear Objective science from Right-Left spectrum…..

  17. Louis got caught…he didn’t just offer this outing of himself…and he denied it before he admitted it. That being said, his admission was an apology. Do we really have to say the words, I’m sorry! He did not waffle when he made the apology, when denial was no longer an option he outright admitted that the claims were true. He is and will continue to pay the price for his misdeeds and women are finally being heard…. While considering how we can address this let us beware of the proverbial pendulum because we never seem to be able to stop it in the middle but we swing from one extreme to another.

  18. First, I DO believe that teenagers should be given a little leniency in matters of sex. Secondly, there also needs to be some middle ground in the area of contact. If a person makes an advance (spoken or physical) it isn’t sexual assault, it’s just a misunderstanding and ‘I’m sorry’ should be good enough, BUT if the recipient of that advance clearly doesn’t or can’t consent (verbally or physically) to the advance and the instigator continues after being told NO then it’s assault.

  19. I think Cenk’s analysis is appropriately nuanced and pretty on point and it makes me happy to be a TyT member. The most BS thing that was said was the idea that you shouldn’t try to rank the severity of cases (which was Grace). Otherwise everything was fairly reasonable, though I somewhat quesiton the judgment of the other 2 hosts.

  20. You guys, except Cenk, have done gone full sjw retard mode (to be fair, it’s mostly just the fill in hosts).

    “I’ll leave the ranking of sexual misconduct and the sex crimes up to the victims” Wtf? So masturbating in front of someone is as bad as drugging and raping them? It’s messed up behaviour to be sure, but most people can see the difference in severity.
    In the legal system, victims don’t get to determine the severity of the crime, the punishment, or even if they are a victim. Laws, judges and juries do that, and there are differences in the severity of crimes.
    From what we know at this point, lumping Louis CK in with Cosby truly is diminishing the crime of rape. Louis didn’t force himself on anyone, force them to touch him, drug them, or threaten with violence if they don’t watch him. These things matter. It’s a different universe compared to Cosby.

  21. Getting SUPER sick of Grace, guys. We’ve had our fill of ultra-feminist crap. I don’t know how anyone can equate Louis with people like Weinstein, O’reilly, or Cosby. There are levels. If this show teaches us one thing, it’s the fact that there are no black-and-white issues.

    1. I find it quite disturbing, actually, that anyone would possibly entertain the idea that masturbating in front of someone is even close to the same category as rape.
      This hyper-pc/sjw/ultra-feminist/postmodernism whatever-you-want-to-call-it stuff is a cancer on our thinking ability. Any sort of reasoning has just gone right out the window. Just imagine if the justice system were run by someone like Simone, it’d be kangaroo courts all day long, letting victims determine the severity of the crime and then the punishment. And don’t you dare question the victim, you’d be invalidating them.

      This is a dangerous path to go down, there will be a backlash. If we call everything assault, people will eventually stop taking any rape allegations seriously. “Well, did he actually rape someone, or did he just steal a glance down her shirt. You never can tell anymore.” These issues are too serious to boil down to “It’s all a power game, therefore it’s rape.”

      1. I would put it in the same category; basically they are both sexual violations. I’ve been masturbated in front of without my consent and it was AWFUL. I would not claim it is the same severity as rape, but it is still a violation. It’s akin to the time someone broke into my house and stole some of my stuff plus fifty dollars. Sure, it wasn’t my life savings but I still felt horribly violated and since I was poor at the time, fifty dollars was a loss to me. It’s still victimizing even if it isn’t on the same scale. I’m not saying both crimes deserve the same punishment but I would categorize them both as crimes. And the looking down the shirt argument is your basic slippery slope fallacy. I think harping on how different one is from the other is what diminishes the violations that women experience on a daily basis. All of it should be taken seriously and none of it should be acceptable. Rape allegations already aren’t taken seriously, they are generally scrutinized to an embarrassing degree. And why should women have to put up with a man masturbating in front of them because a more serious crime exists? Should I be cool with someone stealing fifty dollars from me because other people are on the more egregious level of Bernie Madoff victims? Also don’t forget women often are justifiably scared of men just because they are generally more physically threatening, there doesn’t have to be a verbalized threat of force because the threat of that force is tacit. It’s often a better bet for women to wait through the sexual violation so they don’t escalate the situation to an even more physical threat of violence. But don’t listen to me, I’m just a victim who’s experienced this shit. Let’s listen to someone who has no idea how it feels. While we’re at it, let’s let a group of exclusively men make decisions on women’s health care.

        1. Women shouldn’t have to put up with Louis-type behavior, it’s definitely inappropriate and wrong, but it’s not assault. And it’s not a slippery slope fallacy, we’re well on our way. On one end you have a politician dismissing rape by saying “some girls rape easily” and people using the duke lacrosse case to dismiss all rape, closer to the middle, female family members have warned me “be careful, there’s an epidemic of girls crying rape”, and on the other end you have 3rd wave whackjobs talking about the male gaze leading to rape. So I think Cenk’s comment of diminishing other crimes is spot on.

          I’m been robbed too, I know the feeling of violation, even had the repeated dreams about getting robbed again, it makes you feel uneasy in your own home. And if the people had been caught, I don’t get a say in judging the severity of the crime or the appropriate punishment. That’s the job of the legal system, where it’s been recognized for a long time that the victim doesn’t get to dispense justice, for very good reasons.

    2. I’m glad Cenk is giving some pespective to this issue. There is a awfully wide range of behavior that’s that is all recently been called “sexual predator.”

      What I haven’t seen discussed at at all that’s ALWAYS got to be considered in a particular situation is how much CHOICE does the woman reasonably have in the situation? If none–and it involves rape, that’s obviously got to be horrible and the very worst and is at the very TOP of bad. That’s far worse than masturbation on any level–whether choice or not.

      But without choice in the situation, having to be witness to masturbation is at best extremely disgusting–but certainly not nearly to the level of rape. Men doing this deserve to driven out of their position of power–and if women stand up against them they probably will, just as has been recently demonstrated. If nobody protests, then some men are going to think that it’s maybe OK, and continue. I’m glad some woman are finally standing up to this.

      But, look, women need to recognize in real life that if they DO have some realistic choice, and ARE at least allowed some kind of choice THEY HAVE RESPONSIBILITY TO to say NO! They must make it VERY CLEAR that they don’t accept or want that behavior–that they are NOT willing to make a deal of that type. And fortunately it is finally happening! Whether they actually have a realistic possibility of that choice or not makes a BIG difference–and unfortunately in some situations hard to decide how much choice is really there. But in a particular situation this issue must be discussed too.

      Do people realize there’s a biological difference between men an woman? Because of that difference It is a lot easier for women to sell their sexuality should they be WILLING to reduce themselves to that level–whether for money, or promise of a job, or any other favor. You might not like to admit it, but in dealing with a man in power, or with money, SHE may have power over him which she can voluntarily submit to or REFUSE. If the woman says “I had to do it to get the job” that is essentially being willing to be a prostitute. It reflects VERY BADLY on both parties of such a transaction–where I would put at least some greater responsibility on the job giver, who is usually the person with the most power.

      If she HAS HAD a job for awhile, and a man demands this kind of behavior to continue to work, that’s “very little choice” and has to be also extremely a very high level of predation. Women do need to stand up to this, which they ARE finally doing to stop this.

      And–it must be said that men really can come to regret their bad behavior–especially if they hear some loud complaints– and an honest and sincere admission of regret should at least be give SOME credit for what they can’t erase now, which two of your panelists seem to give very little, if any credit.

    3. Seeing the red in her eyes is the exact type of behavior that Cenk is warning will lead to folks pushing back on an otherwise legit movement. It lowers her legitimacy in that nuanced movement and the legitimacy of the movement itself. Even to allies like me.

  22. Can you please cover the story of a million kids in danger of cholera contraction in Yemen? Because of the war we are funding and in support of? That is the life a million people. I am just putting this out as an example of the news that are not attracting enough attention lately on your media. Social issues are important and often crucial to the development of a public discourse, but moderation also matters. Everything in moderation. Too much of the same type of stories over and over again, does not sound to be the right approach to the coverage of the news.

    1. I agree with you. I’d love to see a weekend show dedicated to all the stories they didn’t get to during the week and/or major international news. They live in Los Angeles. You’d think they could find people from those various countries to help with understanding the situation better. These experts could sit in JR’s chair and chime in when Hasan totally misunderstands something. ;).

  23. I can’t find myself in much agreement with Cenk on the Louis CK story. By initially refuting the allegations and by confessing to one of the women he did this to that he has problems, he knew that what he was doing and what he was asking of these women was wrong. It doesn’t matter that what he did doesn’t rise to the level of Bill Cosby or Bill O’Reilly or Bill Clinton (what is it with Bills?). It was wrong. He knew it.

    Nit-picking over whose actions are worse when all of the actions center on the idea that women exist as sex things for men’s enjoyment ignores that the real problem is that men in power seem to view women only as sex things for their enjoyment! The nit-picking is an argument not worth having, and it serves only to obscure the real issue.

    This is akin to what Cenk rightfully called out the Republicans and Fox News of doing in the case of Roy Moore. By instead pivoting the story from “Roy Moore is apparently a pedophile” to “some women make up allegations” or “yea but Mary was a child and Joseph was an adult so it’s okay” they are obscuring the real discussion. By pivoting the story from “Louis CK treated women like objects knowing it was wrong to do so” to “but what he did wasn’t as bad as these other cases”, he is obscuring the real discussion. And, giving him the benefit of the doubt, I suspect Cenk is doing so unintentionally whereas Fox News and the Republican Party are very much doing so intentionally.

    I do worry that Cenk was apparently concerned at all about whether or not people in power can have sexual interactions with people not in power. That’s… dude that’s just not relevant here at all.

  24. Again, another fake Power Panel. First off, again, why does the random co-host of the hour 2 have a Car Windshield over her face? Second, again, WHERE IN THE WORLD IS ANA SAN DIEGO?!?! Also, I vote we replace Cenk permanently with Jayar from yesterday – he’s hella cool!

    Louis CK- Cenk is ok with sexual harassment and abuse towards women. I’m DISGUSTED by Cenk after this 1st story. Is he just a sexist? Or a DINO? Cenk is a sexual abuse APOLOGIST. I’m sorry, but he just is. At least this hour. I totally agree with Grace, and if I were here I’d walk off the set and he can run the fucking hour himself. I’d home that the guest co-host would, as a woman, support her and walk off camera with Grace in protest.

    On the hair story- Lupita, you’re a MODEL and this is a MAGAZINE COVER, you knew you would be touched up and have photoshop used on the picture. They do that to EVERY picture on the cover of a magazine with models. Furthermore, I didn’t hear the panel tell us that the magazine revealed why they altered the image. I have a journalism background, and there are MANY Reasons to edit a photo or crop it down. There are visual and artistic reasons to balance a photo that have nothing to do with race. Let them offer their defense before we judge the case, I think.

    On Tiffany’s- I can’t afford any of the accessories because I spent all my money on Asparagus Water and Avocado Toast! But wait gang if we buy TWO tin cans AND the ball of twine we can make a phone out of it!

  25. The stories in the 2nd hour today are complete bullshit. The whole week sucked.
    One. C. K. Ask and far as we know never did he show them anything or touch them and when rejected hi didn’t threaten them or used his “power” to get back at them.
    Two. The black model angry at a magazine photoshopping the picture has no right at being offended, it’s a magazine they photoshop everything, don’t like it, don’t be in the business or at the least try to be in the production side if you want to make those kinds of inputs.

    Have more issues with a lot of the stories this week. I’ve always not loved the 2nd hour but this past month have been specially full of bad, boring non story stories.

  26. I agree with Cenk about a lot of this. I do not think Louie is the same category as those other assholes. I am a woman, by the way.
    Cheers!

    1. I totally agree and I am also a woman.

      I almost rolled off my chair when Simone told him that maybe he needed to be a woman to understand. LOL

      Hilarious! Bravo all.

      -Celan

    3. I’m not a woman so I guess my opinion isn’t valid. Plus since Grace also hits on other women can we really count her opinion 100%? ;) In addition, the whole just-say-your-sorry comment is totally silly. They are on their way to court. Apologies in a court of law is an admission of guilt and will make you lose the case.

  27. Ce nk, the man did it over and over again. He didn’t decide not to do it the second or third time. He continued. The ONLY reason he stopped is because he got caught. Yes, he admitted it and, yes, his statement seems to show he finally gets the power aspect. The question I have for him and Weinstein (and other men) is this: will you continue to abuse women? Will you stop because there has been some light thrown on this not?

    As far as power, most men are bigger and stronger than most women, so saying no to a man is always risky.

  28. God Cenk, just shut up about Louis C.K. and stop victim blaming and let the women talk on this issue. You sound like such an ass.

  29. The problem with the interactions between the male and females of are species as Homo sapiens various parts of our brains have evolved at different rates.
    We may be able to go into space and see the universe or understand micro biology but on are interactions between the genders we are still in the stone age (Ref read The Naked Ape also Men are from Mars Women are from Venus)
    Wealth/Power replaces strength and nurturing for the male requirement in the modern 1st world female. Trophy attractive females become a priority for the males as the nurturing child rearing is delegated to the 3rd world females relegating that priority.

  30. The problem with the interactions between the male and females of are species as Homo sapiens have evolved at different rates.
    We may be able to go into space and see the universe or understand micro biology but on are interactions between the genders we are still in the stone age (Ref read The Naked Ape also Men are from Mars Women are from Venus)
    Wealth/Power replaces strength and nurturing for the male requirement in the modern 1st world female. Trophy attractive females become a priority for the males as the nurturing child rearing is delegated to the 3rd world females relegating that priority.

  32. The magazine cover, from a personal viewpoint removing the distraction of hair to the rear of her head shot gives her an extremely strong intense facial photograph without distraction.

  33. Have mercy, The majority of girls and women are sexually assaulted. It is not the industry but the country that enjoys abusiveness and sexual profanity.

  34. Where’s the assault with Louis ck? It’s messed up, but there’s no assault here from what we’ve heard. Calling it assault is Fox News style shit.

  36. i agree with cenk on the louie ck point. he fucked up but is not in the category of weinstein. he royally fucked up.

  37. About black women’s or men’s hair. It’s been an object of white European fascination for at least two thousand years, and the types of hair usually found amongst different kinds of white people has been an object of fascination in African and Asian countries in particular for just as long a time.

    The only reason Americans are so preoccupied with black women’s hair is because of all the slavery treatment/fallout baggage it comes with. After WW2, more women in the workplace meant more black women, and as a result incredible restrictions on how black women should treat or wear their hair to ‘get along’ in and 88% majority white society. What chemical-filled horrid times those were. As far as I know, the only time I started to see my way out of perms, curlers in bed and hot irons was in the 1990s, with the widening acceptance of braiding and weaves. FREEDOM! I’ve been braiding my hair ever since.

    Hollywood producers and other hot shot photographers / media people can be stuck in those ‘tell black women what to do with their hair’ mode from back in the day, even though they know WAY better than to mess with the image of a star. What do you think Justin Bieber would say to a photo missing something he had in his hair? What would Taylor Swift say if somebody airbrushed out a part of her hair without her permission?

  38. Sucks to hear CK is a scumbag behind the scenes. I always admired him, and this is one of the best comedic rants of all time about corporations and capitalism and the good vs the bad. (anthony cumia is also a scumbag)
    Smart guy, funny guy, but an alt right asshole. and that screenshot is now extremely ironic.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCQG-4FmhWc

  39. I really loved this panel. As men, we really need to listen and hear more, so it was good to have Grace in one of Cenk’s ears, and Simone in the other. As more of these stories are told, we will have to have more nuanced discussions about sexual harassment and assault. Unfortunately, I think we will continue to need these conversations as long as we fail to address how we raise our boys into men. We are raising emotionally stunted men. We teach our boys to be at war with their emotions and to have absolute control over their emotional needs. Our society promotes and rewards the most toxic aspects of the masculine. We have a male emotional illiteracy problem and it’s at the root of our sexual assault epidemic, our domestic violence epidemic, our gun violence epidemic and our greed epidemic. Now we have the poster-boy for toxic masculinity in the Whitehouse and we should see that for the mirror that it is.

  40. Why is it so difficult for some men to understand that women are not there to help them get their rocks off? Just keep it in your goddam pants and everything will be a lot better for all concerned.

  41. I’m An Amateur Photographer Most models sign a release form which means the person who holds that document now owns that said photo.

    1. Women (and men) have been systematically attacked across whole swathes of society and you decided that the real victims are the perpetrators for being held to account.

  44. BTW REMEMBER how women kept be accused of “sleeping their way to the top.” ! Everyone KNEW .. they just decided to blame the victims. Sunshine needs to disinfect the society.

  45. Cenk, I think you’re missing some things about this. We’re talking about what’s largely known as , ‘A Boys Club’, when we talk about the comedy industry (and most industries, really). Women are coming from a place of trying to ‘get in’ to that club. To break through. So in that sense, it doesn’t matter whether or not Louis C.K. was their boss, or even someone soooo much more powerful than them. It just matters that A. He was more powerful (and he was) and B. Women are so often belittled when they bring up situations like this (‘Oh! So he ASKED you if he could masturbate in front of you and you had a problem with that?! Big deal!) that they knew they’d better not, lest they never get into that club. Frankly, I feel you’re doing that too. These were all industry-related situations. Not dates. He would not have even done these things if he didn’t already ‘know’ he was fairly safe in that power cocoon.

    1. Thanks for this Serious Lee. Agree totally about all the cases being industry-related.

      The tricky thing is what do all these accused men think industry-related means? Harassment/assault’s okay? Okay if you ask? The law doesn’t stipulate in the kind of terms MEN and MALE LAWYERS understand so it needs to be clarified.

      I was on a TV program here in Tokyo once where the ‘guest’ was a wealthy Japanese man who said the only reason he got married was to make kids and satisfy his parents and society. He said Getting married was his license, or green light if you will, to have his long awaited ‘candy’ – lots of girls and women. He said he couldn’t get this ‘candy’ until he got married because society didn’t give him ‘permission’ until then. He also said his ‘candy’ did not include women he had to pay for in the profession of prostitution, but underage girls and women in regular public situations so he could ‘hone his skills’ in hunting, capturing and scoring. There were a hundred of us foreigners on the program listening to this shit and it made us SOOOO MADDDD. It didn’t matter WHAT country we were from we booed that guy out of the studio.

      But we all had to admit there was a DEEP problem with unclear laws on the books along with old-time barbaric beliefs in ALL our countries. The only solution to what Simone AND Cenk were talking about is laws on the books with penalties that are CLEAR TO MEN in particular as well as to women in power that attempt to pull the same shit.

      Regarding the ‘ask’ thing, these men wouldn’t DARE ‘ask’ one of their big sponsor’s daughters or kids. They wouldn’t like it if their brother ‘asked’ THEIR kids, little or grown. This ‘ask’ is just another brain-stem driven piece of ‘logic’ to get around a PR problem they think they have under control. The fact that they’re not ‘asking’ everybody proves these creeps know exactly what they’re doing.

  46. It seems clear LCK would not have admitted it until caught. HOWEVER we do need to acknowledge the nuance of both time and place and admitting guilt earlier and not later. He did not go the Clinton route or the Cosby route. That needs to be acknowledged and considered mitigating. Otherwise there is no reason not to deny deny deny.
    Sounds like LCK knows he “has a problem” which others will not even acknowledge. Geez the GOP is still defending Moore.

  47. Wow. Leave it to Louie to make sexual assault complicated. Honestly I think the black and white situation of ”it made me uncomfortable and therefore you’re guilty” isn’t fair. I’ve literally told women “Before I found out you weren’t single I was going to ask you out to dinner” and she reacted so fucking awkwardly that I felt like I had just assaulted her. It was fucking dinner!! I didn’t even ask her because she had a boyfriend. But I still felt like I was some pervert or like I crossed some boundary that I didn’t even know existed. I felt like shit for forever after that! I didn’t say “I was gonna pull out my dick and start jerking it in front of you until you said you had a boyfriend”. No….I said I was gonna ask you out to dinner!! I think women need to grow up! Stop pretending like men are all perverts and heathens unless you’re attracted to them because I’ve seen “hot guys” do absolutely HEINOUS SHIT and say fucking grotesque things and since they’re hot…the girls are into it! I’ve also seen girls sexually assault men on a regular basis but men don’t come out and say anything about it when they should!

    2. You should look into the concept Schrodinger’s Rapist to better understand why women are justifiably concerned about potentially hostile interactions with men. I would say men are the ones that need to grow up around this point.

  48. I’m kind of surprised you missed the fact that he personally contacted two of the women (one in 2009 and another in 2015) to apologize to them. That was in the NY Times article from yesterday. Not defending the man in any way, but… that ‘is’ an important part of the story when you’re making a point of saying that he hasn’t said he’s “sorry” at all.

      1. Until very recently he had been publicly denying what he called “rumors” so even if he privately apologized, he was publicly calling those women liars.

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