Grace Baldridge is joined by Jennifer Roberts to talk about the infamous mystery, Jack the Ripper. Who was Jack the Ripper? What were his motives? How was his identity never identified?
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Many discount Walter Sickert as being the Ripper because he is such a a well known artist. Though for anyone interested in case they should take a glance at the non-fiction Patricia Cornwell book Portrait of a Killer. There is a plethora of circumstantial evidence: in his art work, way of life, attitudes toward women, and even in a certain anatomical anomaly that he was born with. Unfortunately, some of Sickert’s documents are not being turned over by his estate. I’m not sure if it’s because there is something to hide or perhaps they are trying to protect Sickert’s reputation.
Thanks Grace, good show!
So now we have a new name which does appear on Wikipedia – Charles Allen Lechmere.
Christer Holmgren, a Swedish journalist who’s been researching the Jack the Ripper case for over thirty years, is the latest to be sure of a name and he makes a damn compelling case.
I wonder why Albert Backert, the name the tour guide Mick Priestly has as the #1 suspect, isn’t mentioned by anybody on Wikipedia. Mick still makes a seriously good case on this guy and he can’t be the only one.
Jack the Ripper murdered more than those unfortunate prostitutes. He also killed the infamy of H. H. Holmes. Holmes built a murder house near Chicago. The first floor presented an innocent grocery store. The second story presented rooms that could be locked from the outside and asphyxiating gas released to silently kill his victims. The basement contained evidence dissolving lye pits. Holmes lured single women with money, romanced them, murdered them, and told authorities that they left for Europe with rich suitors.
Eventually, he had to flee to St. Louis and from there he took a circuitous route to New York, involving the kidnapping of two children that he used to escape police attention. The kidnapping resulted in a Pinkerton agent being assigned to the case. Unfortunately, he was always one step behind Holmes. When Pinkerton pulled the plug on the investigation, their agent refused to quit, especially after finding the children’s lifeless bodies.
The Pinkerton man’s dogged determination succeeded. Holmes was apprehended. Unfortunately for Holmes’ horrific legacy, the sensationalism of the Jack the Ripper case eclipsed Holmes’ trial and execution. The cosmic hand of justice was not done with burying Holmes in obscurity, however. Shortly after a ghoulish entrepreneur bought Holmes’ murder house with the intention of charging admission to the public to see the remote-controlled gas jets and door locks and subterranean lye pits, the murder house mysteriously caught fire and burned to the ground.
I think it was said best when it was said that there are really two Jack the Rippers. The “entertaining” version that we’ve made up and the real one. Look I like the bs version, From Hell, is a good read and a pretty fun movie if I am being honest. I think it’s pretty clear that it’s fantasy though and very easy to realize that it’s not true at all. Looking at Jack from that viewpoint there is a mythos about it that makes for good horror. Looking at Jack the Ripper from a True Crime perspective I think is equally interesting though. It’s this weird middle ground in regards to the police. The way in which serial killers are investigated hadn’t been established yet so the police were at a disadvantage, but there was still a great deal of effort. So we have this odd sort of “well we know more than we did for killers that came before but still not nearly enough”.
Jack was the killer that got me into True Crime but I kind of moved on from it. I was hesitant to watch this episode but I am so glad I did. It was well done, Jen was a good guest, and I am way pumped to read Mick’s book (already got it). I feel that Jack itch coming back as odd as that sounds.
Megan E Pearson, come on, it’s Jack. Ya gotta watch! I know what you mean about moving on. Since it was Jack the Ripper, I just had to see what Grace and gang had to say. I’ve seen one episode before about a year ago. Your comment about the Ripper’s duality made me think of his entertainment side. Besides horror shows, Jack made a guest appearance on a classic Star Trek episode!
Speaking True Crime, Ted Bundy worked on a suicide crisis hotline when in college. A woman, who also volunteered and worked next to Bundy answering the phone, was housewife and crime reporter. After Bundy was identified and put on trial, the crime reporter had transformed her reporting into authoring True Crime books. When she recognized Bundy, she must have realized the inherent potential. She wrote a book entitled The Stranger Beside Me (1980). The author: Ann Rule.
Bundy’s story has an occult element that Jack the Ripper’s must have had, too: the victim who missed a lethal meeting with destiny due to a fortunate coincidence. Bundy had stalked a woman at night while she walked home. He had to estimate which house she would enter in order to run down the alley to get ahead of her in position to blitz attack her and drag her off to her death. Fortunately for the intended victim, her destination was a closer door, not her doom. This woman probably never knew how close she came to being murdered by a serial killer that night.
How many rendezvous with disaster have we unknowingly missed? Something about a coincidence, a lapse, a change of plan thwarting the cosmic alignment of fate is unsettling.
Grace, this episode was great and so were your guests. I especially liked the map showing the ring of death surrounding Backert’s home.
I was trying to save this for the Ted Bundy episode, but since you mention the “victim who missed out”, essentially, I’m going to mention it here.
My mum’s best friend of years was nearly killed by Ted Bundy, but at the time there was no information on his other killings to work off of, so he was hit with a slap on the wrist.
The woman met Bundy, was talked into going to a movie with him, but something about his behaviour triggered red flags in her head. She left the theatre after an argument with Bundy, and went home on her own; Bundy turned up, rather much a different man from the one she had met. He was beating on her door, alternatingly threatening her and trying to coerce her into opening the door. Instead, mum’s friend grabbed a shotgun she had in the home, planted herself across from the door, and made it quite clear she had a gun trained on him by firing a single shot; Bundy fled after that, yelling curses at her as he did.
Years later, when Bundy was caught and suddenly broadcast across the nation, mum’s friend broke down and cried on my mum’s shoulder, realising that she could have been one of the victims, which was terrifying for both of them, as mum had known about the date since it occurred.
Ironically, when I was 9 years old, we ended up moving to Murray, Utah – just minutes away from Fashion Place Mall – where the DaRonch kidnapping occurred. It had sort of become urban legend by then that the Fashion Place Mall incident was the beginning of the end for Bundy, which made it *super weird* to ever have a stranger approach whenever I was there.
Knowing this, I have always suspected – as you rightly questioned – about how many other women avoided death either by rejecting the invitations Bundy made, or in similar situations to mum’s friend, where they realised they were in danger, and left his company before something happened, and how many other women may have faced what she did – having to fend off what turned out to be a gods damned serial killer.
It actually made me wonder how many people in myriad of serial murder cases – including the Ripper case – that somehow avoided an untimely fate; the Ed Kemper case only strengthened that curiosity.
I, like you, was introduced to criminal psychology and “true crime” via Jack the Ripper. Oddly, he was brought up in one of my elementary classes when we were learning about Victorian England, though he wasn’t covered in immense detail, because elementary school. However, I was intrigued about how the “monster”, as the teacher cited him, managed to get away with “5” murders, while taunting the police. We had moved to Utah when I was about 4 because the Hillside Strangler had only recently been caught, though copy cats were creating similar murders still in the early 80s, and mum had been an adult during the Zodiac Killer incident, so she just wanted the hell out of California; her telling me about this after I came home with books on Jack the Ripper only lead to a broader fascination with criminal psychology and serial killers.
Largely, by high school, I had “moved on” from the Ripper murders, largely because of the inconsistency of all the accounts, evidence, and conspiracy theorists. I did want to see Grace’s take on it, and I’m so glad I did – Mick’s perspective on it is truly amazing, and helpful at cutting through the bullshit. I also agree with you on “From Hell” – it’s a great movie, especially with the ending, but it’s highly fanciful and inaccurate. I do want to get Mick’s book, to take a different look at the Ripper murders, because his information was fascinating.
Grace et al,
No, “slaughterers” are not worse-butchers (or whatever weird thing Grace said about the distinction).
1) Slaughterer kills the animal, skins and disembowels. Then sends carcass to butcher.
2) Butcher turns the carcass into various cuts of meat.
Two different professions, with different skill sets. And, obviously, very different working premises. A slaughterhouse is where live animals are sent to be killed. Butchers don’t deal with that.
Lol, I loved that she said that
I’m pretty positive that Grace understands the difference between those two professions. She said that because taking the life of a living being IS worse then simply preparing it.
But that’s just an opinion, and I think it only holds true for the slaughterers that participate in the modern day industrial farming industry.
I agree with your theory. I also think it’s a visceral reaction to the word “slaughter”.
Does anyone know if there is going to be a new episode posted this week? (nov 16th)
Was just gonna ask that! They’ve had substantially less episodes this “season” so i hope it’s not over yet
Hi Grace & TYT Members, I just wanted to pop back on here to say I was in London yesterday and did the Jack the Ripper tour (Ripper Vision) that Grace recommended. I had to book on the day so I couldn’t get a tour with Mick Priestley as the guide, but I did get Amy who was a brilliant young lady from Northern Ireland. She didn’t agree with Mick’s findings but she greatly respects him of course and invited me to come by the tour office to get a copy of Mick’s book signed. If any of you guys are in London you should do that too.
A woman who is knowledgeable with a deep level of interest in the case of Jack the Ripper as Amy is provides important information from a woman’s perspective, such as how it was to be forced into unprecedented desperation in a London monstrously transformed by industry, drugs, alcohol, technology and uncontrolled overpopulation. Amy was cool, concise and clever. She is also into drama, hence the sound effects and screams she could do while smiling! That was creepy.
Guys, this is not the usual time-wasting bit of titillation, this tour is a chance for you to really learn how we defined the term ‘city’ and how the city has defined us. One very inexpensive way to see the mentality behind police brutality, Cosby/Weinstein/Moore and hygiene / substance abuse as well as the mentalities that led to some of the modern day murders Grace has so expertly covered.
I’m in London and Cardiff, Wales till Tuesday next week. Love you guys!
Hey Grace! Once again, excellent show! Jack the Ripper has definitely been one of my favs since I was a kid writing reports in 7th grade speech class. Been watching since the beginning of MwF and still waiting for my top favorite, Ted Bundy. I assume you’re waiting for the film? No? Either way, looking forward to it. Also, I took a break because I prefer to binge watch stuff like this and was glad to see you got to my number two tied with Berkowitz & The Ripper, The Zodiac. Keep it up, you’re killin it! Pun absolutely intended.
First off, great show, great addition to the TYT lineup! I’ve been watching since early episodes, all very interesting shows but I would like to offer up a couple suggestions to improve your already good show.
1. Vital Statistics of the killer(s) near the beginning of the show. For me, i’m not someone who would ever know about many of the stories you cover, but I have hard about them in passing. So I know little to no details about any of these murderers however I do have knowledge of their existence without the curiosity to actually look anything up about them. So when I saw your show, I found you very entertaining on TYT main show, I do like your presentation so I will take some time (maybe at work lol) to watch about something I’ve heard of but never researched. So maybe start the show off like normal, but instead of going into a few specifics first, maybe go into number of killings, time frame of activity, if you know race/age range of the murder(s) and maybe a timeline of when each person was killed that you can show as you tell the story. I just don’t know any overview of these murders so it would just be helpful mainly because i’m never going to do any research other than whatever you are providing here. I feel like it would just make this more complete.
2. Maybe as you are speaking of victims by name, put something on the screen about the victim so I know why you are mentioning them, such as “Victim 1, 10/18/1888, first appearance of fake coins” or “victim 5, 11/19/1890, second victim this day” . Stuff like that, since i’ve done 0 research coming in and like both the entertainment value of the presentation and the information value of the show, small tidbits like that would be great.
Those were really the main 2 points, great show. Just coming in cold and looking for info/entertainment those added factoids would really give me a full sense of the importance of this in that time in history.
Keep up the excellent work!
Hey! Love the show and glad it’s back. I do wish some of these where longer but I’ll take what I can get. Much love
Thanks for the referral. I bought Mick’s book. It is thoroughly fascinating and wow, it is well researched. Gives lots more information about this time in London. Thanks!!
Why does my stream keep glitching? It happens to me on everything I watch on the website, I can watch on YouTube and it’s fine. But here, where I pay for my content it’s super glitchy. Not only this show, but also live streams and other member content as well. And this happens to me on multiple devices. What’s going on? Every 30 seconds or so I get a 15 second repeat. It’s super maddening.
I get that sometimes too and wonder if it’s only during high traffic times. I just download and delete.
The Masons, the royal surgeon Gove and the queens royal painter Sittard who left clues in his paintings with regard to the murders.
The head of the police took over the search for the Ripper Anderson only stayed in that position over that murder timescale then when the kiilings ceased he moved on.The place of the murder related to masonic traditions ie Mitre Square.
Sittard also married the child of one of the victims.
I had the same thing. It might be a problem with your ISP. I had a similar problem, where service on TYT was limited, but great on high-paying providers like youtube.
Yes. I was waiting for someone to mention him. I believe his name is Sickert though. Walter Sickert. He was an artist in the area who many people do not want to accept is the Ripper because of his popularity as an artist. Patricia Cornwell wrote a book called ‘Portrait of a Killer’ that I would recommend. There is a mountain of circumstantial evidence;
Not only in his art, but also in the accounts of friends and family.
I came away fairly positive that it was Walter Sickert.
Thank you very much. Great show.
Love the episode and book recs! I am very intrigued by the Jack the Ripper mystery and I was hoping for this episode for awhile. Thank you!
you have to do the story of the ship reck and mutany of the ship Batavia by Jeronimus Cornelisz and the hero Wiebbe Hayes.
SHOCKED about Russell Edwards’ conclusion being thrown out here! But this is all part of a very important process. To get to the bottom of all the Weinstein, Cosby, Moore mess we’re in now, and of course to see more of what happened in cases like Joan Benet, the Black Dahlia and countless others, we MUST consider more than just ‘bad’ policing. People, men in particular, in those pre-modern days had no real knowledge of what alcohol, tobacco or opium could do to the then newly super populated, newly industrialized ‘city.’ Men in all walks of life excused their own gross acts with myths like ‘good women stay stupid and at home’ or ‘working women / women out without a man ask for it.’ Police ‘training’ was basically bodyguarding whoever slipped them the quid — they enjoyed the services of women in the cheap brothels while ignoring them. Rapes and murders came to be titillating reading for men by men in the then new technology of mass printed newspapers. THIS through the decades is how we got here with all the glorification of men who prey on women.
But what is the ONE thing these men of old and of late cannot BEAR?
Getting caught.
They can’t even stand the idea of getting caught after their own deaths. Getting caught blows that out of control brain stem of theirs and shames them into saying or doing all sorts of awkward, escapist things. And it is exactly these things that young wannabes / copycats / admirers need to see. THESE CREEPS GETTING CAUGHT AND NAMED.
If this creep went to the US that would make PERFECT sense with a newly uniformed London police force being embarrassed by a then unexpected mass printed paper readership of angry working class consumers, as well as with a royal elite who hoped a lot of undesirables would go into ‘American exile’ in that third-world failed colony like the Irish did before them. I say the authorities let that guy escape. So now we have a ridiculous legacy of sick men’s fantasy films and books about someone who should have and I say still can be named. And needs to be named.
Noted about this guy and his loads of sources and findings, but my question about him is why is he doing titillation tours instead of work with the BBC or Scotland Yard? He’s a fast talker from all those tours he does, I don’t get good vibes from him. Gonna check again with Russell Edwards (author of Naming Jack the Ripper, 2013) and get his take on your guys’ findings.
By the way, I don’t think it very unusual for a poor prostitute to have a long shawl in those days, London was hella cold back in those low tech days and patrons from all walks of life gave them gifts you know. She could’ve stood out in it without even realizing it. It could’ve been a dud but let’s not laugh yet.
Thanks Grace!
one of the more fantastic theories was from a Anime called Nobunagun , fictional but interesting
PLEASE do SOMETHING about that heavy ham handed klutzy “music!” Please?
Like others, I’ll voice my appreciation for the extra discussion beyond the 101 stuff. Made for a great engaging episode on a story that all true crime fans have researched. Jennifer was a great guest, as was Mick.
I also gotta note that I love it when you recommend books to read for further insight (Jay Light recommended Dave Cullen’s ‘Columbine’ in the Columbine massacre episode and ended up buying it). Will definitely be picking up Mick’s book as well. I’d love to see more book and documentary recommendations in future episodes.
Some of the things that were debunked in your very quick overview was very really wish you could have covered it in two episodes, it’s such an interesting subject.
Also wasn’t the Ripper murders one of the first well publicized serial kilers so maybe that’s why we are so facinated by it.
I was honestly deep into the HH Holmes theory. I had heard a bit about the murders, as we all have at one point, and a TED talk popped up about HH Holmes being Jack the Ripper. I watched it and I was totally convinced after. However, I then was deep into investigating this desperate to find a good explanation that might possibly corroborate the story I had just heard. I found out Jeff Mudgett was actually just plugging a book, in which he details having a brain tumor that goes away after solving some mysteries. This obviously made me a little weary to believe his accusations but it still made the most sense out of anything I had read. His evidence was facial recognition software based on composites, handwriting comparisons, and the fact that Holmes was a doctor. Needless to say, you definitely debunked a lot of his evidence which was only seen as valid due to a number of popular beliefs. I was inclined to believe him because I have a weird fascination with Holmes and having his story get that much crazier would have been insane. You debunked my favorite Ripper theory but thanks for at least giving me a new one in return!
Black was probably a popular color at that time especially for poorer people because it hides the dirt.
Another good episode. I liked learning all the myths surrounding Jack the Ripper. I’m curious as to what happened to him. Was it Backet and did he make it to America? Did he die? Did he stop? Seems unlikely that he would stop at only 30 some years old.
“Black was probably a popular color at that time especially for poorer people because it hides the dirt.”
It actually wasn’t. At least not among the poorer folks. The best colors to hide the dirt from the streets and coal were middle to slightly darker browns and greys with some color variations in it instead of a plain uniform color (like the fur of a rabbit or wolf instead of paint). On black the mud from the streets would be very easy to spot since wet dirt becomes lighter as it dries. That is why it was seen as a symbol of wealth to be dressed in plain black clothes. The wearer didn’t have to walk through all the dirt, they were riding in coaches. (Btw the white cuffs that always stuck out showed that the wearer was wealthy enough to employ housemaids and didn’t have to handle the coal by themselves.)
Earthy tones for the poor: http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/london-slums-picture-id80584720?s=170667a
Black and bright colors for the rich: https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/article_large/public/thumbnails/image/2012/10/03/09/3070684.jpg
(Sorry for throwing all of this at you. I researched quite a bit about stuff like this and just got really exited about this opportunity to share some of my findings ;) )
I think if Backet was Jack the Ripper then going to America would make perfect sense. The killings in London weren’t really satisfying for him and even trying to get involved with the investigations didn’t help. Than along comes Mary and the opportunity to kill inside…better hidden from discovery…more time to enjoy the act and soak in all the images. (I’m not actually associating those positive words with what he did…just trying to see the situation from his point of view) After that first glance at some kind of actual satisfaction it would make sense if he decided to leave London behind and start all over in the new world where nobody knew him and even the stories of his killings would if at all only be a side note in the papers. I assume he would have continued to kill soon after settling in America. He might have traveled around while committing more murders since a spree in one place like he did back in London would have been noticed in America and still would be.
Thanks for the correction! That’s interesting.
Has anyone brought up the graphic novel that the movie From Hell was to you Grace and team?
Frank Miller the author of From Hell got his thoroughly researched ‘Comic’ some awards over in
the UK over it being the working theory?
From Hell is not really researched as much as a graphic novel version of “Jack the Ripper: The Final Solution” (which is a terrible name since you know the other connotations) an older book that popularized the theory. While it’s a colorful and fun theory it’s been pretty much entirely debunked with the main supporters basically all coming out and saying “yeah no it never happened”. Even Moore himself is iffy on whether he believed the theory were possible while writing the graphic novel.
The graphic novel is great, the movie is not bad either. However, calling either a “working theory” is a bit of a stretch. It was once but for only a small period of time before basically dismissed as fantasy. It is the most “entertaining” theory and made for a very entertaining story but one that depends on a lot on things that simply aren’t true.
I’m SO happy it wasn’t jus a regurgitation of all the old stuff that I’m so tired of hearing. I like the Albert backet theory as I never bought the other suspects as the actual ripper. What if like to know now is if he dissappeared and had previously said he’d go to America if there were any murders in America around the same time with the same or similar MOs cus I highly doubt if he jus relocated that he didn’t carry on murdering. I’d say it inevitable as he’d b in a new place where no one knew of him, and after being so close to the investigations in London and being able to get away I’d say he’d be feeling quite confident when he arrived at his new destination.
Kinda wish it wasn’t Jack the Ripper. Seriously take as old as time. Everyone knows it. I’m hoping for a Richard speck episode at some point. I like hearing about stuff that’s not been overplayed as it were
You are so right that Murder with Friends isn’t a weekly show Stan
Just a suggestion, but why isn’t Murder with Friends a weekly show on the main channel like Agressive Progressives and Old School. Its great that I now know the new ones come out on Wednesdays so I’ll be watching for them. But why not just air it at the same time every week on the Members Live feed – you’re a lot more reliable than episodes of Old School for sure… (Now that you’re back – which is FANTASTIC)
Keep up the great work, “hacksaw!” This is a wonderful show.
I didn’t know how much was taken out of the Jack the Ripper story.