Grace Baldridge is joined by Amir Nikoui, Mary Ignatova, & Jack Ruley on MWF’s “Campfire Edition.” This campfire edition’s theme is atrocities of war starting with Grace’s pick: Camp Sumter.
Hi Grace, et al. I am a PhD student in history who studies the Civil War and black soldiers in particular. This was a great topic, and I am addicted to this show. However, the explanation of why the prisoner exchange system ended needed some extra context. The Union Army stopped exchanging prisoners mainly because once it started recruiting black soldiers in early 1863, the Confederate government refused to exchange this new group, only white prisoners. Remember, the C.S. was originally founded to protect slavery and therefore considered black Union soldiers to be akin to participants in a slave insurrection (which was a pretty accurate assessment, since black recruitment caused many more enslaved people to flee to Union lines to enlist and thereby emancipate themselves). The U.S. told the Confederacy that exchanges can only continue if the latter started treating all POWs equally, which it refused to do. Thus, the breakdown in exchanges was a function of the Union conducting an emancipationist war and the Confederacy retaliating against this war aim. Here’s what the historians in the National Park Service posted about the issue: https://www.nps.gov/ande/learn/historyculture/grant-and-the-prisoner-exchange.htm
I visited Camp Sumter a few years ago with my parents and the two things that struck me most about it was 1. how I had never heard of it before in my life and 2. just how small the land was in comparison to how many people were kept inside. Like, however big you’re thinking it is, it’s maybe a third of that.
Native Americans were among the members of captured Union soldiers held at Andersonville. A white soldier’s memoir (I forget his name, sorry) said he wouldn’t have survived Andersonville if it hadn’t been for his fellow Michigan sharpshooter, Battese (fake name), a Minnesota Native American and a member of Company K (also called the Ohio Sharpshooters, which is not accurate–that was a different group of “sharpshooter” cavalry). Many “Indians” were held along with African Americans and members of foreign countries who’d been involved with the Union.
As someone who grew up from the late nineties to mid noughties the leaving out of this information in McGraw-Hill state issued textbooks is abhorrent. The fact that these text books are seen as teachable literature is grossly wrong and the rewriting of said history so that it’s acceptable to children should not be conversed in a friendly way. What happened at Ft. Sumter was worse than concentration camps whether it be US or Nazi camps, the importance of the actions in war should not go forgotten to the up an coming generations.
Great to bring this up Grace! Thanks Amir for that ‘The United States are’ versus ‘The United States is’ point my main man Ken Burns makes in his fabulous series The Civil War.
That was was a defining moment for the country as well as for each and every American citizen right down to this day. One thing people neglect to see is how big a part technological advances such as photography and printing played in the then information technology. That technology brought the horrors of war home to people around the country and around the globe thanks to the wealthy travelers with newspapers. Other countries were still stuck in oppressive aristocracies and empires so regardless of technology their print media was more heavily restricted at the time.
I seriously believe the founders of the Meiji Revolution had their hands on some of these newspapers and photos even though they hadn’t removed the Tokugawa feudal government and seized power until 1867. The first place these Meiji rulers went to learn how to avoid being colonized was San Francisco, then Chicago, on to New York City, Washington, DC and then over to the place they really copied – England at it’s imperial peak. They had to have known about the horrors at Fort Sumter in my opinion, because the way they treated POWs during WW2 was a hell of a lot like it. There was traditional Asian torture going on as well . The Nazis had to have known even more to go way beyond Sumter like they did.
People found out more and more as technology advanced and leaks became easier to accomplish, each time people thought the perpetrators were the worst on earth. I feel no other war reached the point of successfully distributed mass information before the US Civil War.
Comments
Hi Grace, et al. I am a PhD student in history who studies the Civil War and black soldiers in particular. This was a great topic, and I am addicted to this show. However, the explanation of why the prisoner exchange system ended needed some extra context. The Union Army stopped exchanging prisoners mainly because once it started recruiting black soldiers in early 1863, the Confederate government refused to exchange this new group, only white prisoners. Remember, the C.S. was originally founded to protect slavery and therefore considered black Union soldiers to be akin to participants in a slave insurrection (which was a pretty accurate assessment, since black recruitment caused many more enslaved people to flee to Union lines to enlist and thereby emancipate themselves). The U.S. told the Confederacy that exchanges can only continue if the latter started treating all POWs equally, which it refused to do. Thus, the breakdown in exchanges was a function of the Union conducting an emancipationist war and the Confederacy retaliating against this war aim. Here’s what the historians in the National Park Service posted about the issue: https://www.nps.gov/ande/learn/historyculture/grant-and-the-prisoner-exchange.htm
P.S. Sorry to get all history professor-ish!
I visited Camp Sumter a few years ago with my parents and the two things that struck me most about it was 1. how I had never heard of it before in my life and 2. just how small the land was in comparison to how many people were kept inside. Like, however big you’re thinking it is, it’s maybe a third of that.
Native Americans were among the members of captured Union soldiers held at Andersonville. A white soldier’s memoir (I forget his name, sorry) said he wouldn’t have survived Andersonville if it hadn’t been for his fellow Michigan sharpshooter, Battese (fake name), a Minnesota Native American and a member of Company K (also called the Ohio Sharpshooters, which is not accurate–that was a different group of “sharpshooter” cavalry). Many “Indians” were held along with African Americans and members of foreign countries who’d been involved with the Union.
That is really sad. But You Guys are really groovy! :]
I want Grace and Amir’s take on the moors murders!!
I have nothing to add, but *awkward happydance* extra Murder With Friends, w00t!
As someone who grew up from the late nineties to mid noughties the leaving out of this information in McGraw-Hill state issued textbooks is abhorrent. The fact that these text books are seen as teachable literature is grossly wrong and the rewriting of said history so that it’s acceptable to children should not be conversed in a friendly way. What happened at Ft. Sumter was worse than concentration camps whether it be US or Nazi camps, the importance of the actions in war should not go forgotten to the up an coming generations.
Great to bring this up Grace! Thanks Amir for that ‘The United States are’ versus ‘The United States is’ point my main man Ken Burns makes in his fabulous series The Civil War.
That was was a defining moment for the country as well as for each and every American citizen right down to this day. One thing people neglect to see is how big a part technological advances such as photography and printing played in the then information technology. That technology brought the horrors of war home to people around the country and around the globe thanks to the wealthy travelers with newspapers. Other countries were still stuck in oppressive aristocracies and empires so regardless of technology their print media was more heavily restricted at the time.
I seriously believe the founders of the Meiji Revolution had their hands on some of these newspapers and photos even though they hadn’t removed the Tokugawa feudal government and seized power until 1867. The first place these Meiji rulers went to learn how to avoid being colonized was San Francisco, then Chicago, on to New York City, Washington, DC and then over to the place they really copied – England at it’s imperial peak. They had to have known about the horrors at Fort Sumter in my opinion, because the way they treated POWs during WW2 was a hell of a lot like it. There was traditional Asian torture going on as well . The Nazis had to have known even more to go way beyond Sumter like they did.
People found out more and more as technology advanced and leaks became easier to accomplish, each time people thought the perpetrators were the worst on earth. I feel no other war reached the point of successfully distributed mass information before the US Civil War.
I’d love to hear some other thoughts.