TYT Hour 2 October 18, 2017

In Membership, The Young Turks Hour 2 - On Demand by Gigi Manukyan38 Comments

Cenk & Ana. Amazon CEO resigns. Gymnast McKayla Maroney says she was molested by team doctor. GOP legislator wants emergency rooms to turn away patients. 46% believe media makes up stories about Trump.

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  1. It’s great that Hollywood is EXPERIENCING; The Unraveling of ENTERTAINMENT/BUSINESS we need to punish and isolate Men/Women pervs their place regardless of the economic ladder they land on….ONLY then can we see Better Equity Standards for Male/Female roles in society to Progress.

    The Sad Historical Fact is that Americans DONT care about International hypocrisy in our Policy abroad is Y Trump has upped the Approval. When Americans r FORCED to Reality; MANY will lose the Trust of Foreigners….but we need America to lose it Excellency staus soo we can redeem but REFORM broken Gears of U.S. Federation of Republics with BETTER HUMANE Constitutional policies.

  2. I agree with your point of view, like Cenk said, the corporate media is obviously biased. I have noticed it after watching different news channel and decide who I want to go to for my news intake. If it’s an important or interesting story we can also do some investigating of our own to get a more well-informed understanding.

    I think the greatest threat with Trump however is his blatant attempt at discrediting the media completely so he and his administration can distract from the truth and push their own narrative. I also don’t hold the media to the same standard as I expect from the President of the Free World. Trump holds tremendous power, and so has tremendous responsibility. He is not just the President of his base.

  3. Ana,
    Don’t feel bad that your experience seems less horrific than others you are hearing. It is a feeling of violation, degradation and objectification. It feels horrible. Pain is pain is pain. I’m glad so many women are speaking out now. I feel cynical that any real change will come of it. Awareness for men is something. I am in my 50’s and have spoken out to people who have asked. I have been dismayed by our society in general about sexaul abuse, assult, rape, molestaon, harrassment…… so many forms, it’s overwhelming. Cenk was right the other day he said something to the effect of it is a small amount of men doing the majority of these evil deeds.

  5. I’m concerned by the constant TYT “bashing” of Trump’s incompetence. It is leading to a false narrative regarding this man’s danger. It focuses on one of his clear weaknesses at the expense of seeing his strengths. This approach can lead to complacency that somehow his incompetence will lead to his downfall (via impeachment, 25th amendment, or Mueller’s investigation outcomes)

    I believe that Trump is a master propagandist. I believe that this strength could overcome “real” evidence of wrong-doing. He uses a consistent methodology to manage the national discussion and dominate the news cycle. His propagandist’s skills are the real danger. See the following article:

    Trump Isn’t Hitler. But the Lying …
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/19/opinion/trump-isnt-hitler-but-the-lying.html

    It is clear from this article that he has studied and learned the skills of successful propaganda. What concerns me is that fact-checking doesn’t seem to be enough to thwart Trump’s propaganda approach. The statistics concerning the believability of the media seem to support that he has been and will continue to be successful in this regard

    As citizens, we need an approach to address the success of his propaganda approach. Continued TYT bashing of Trump may increase subscribers; however this approach is a sort of propaganda itself. We need a truthful approach that is balanced so that we can better sort out the truth for ourselves.

    We need to learn how to identify propaganda, how is it is used, and how to decipher its message. I think a little more specific review of Trump’s message via TYT objective analysis would help in this area.

    1. The only thing Trump has mastered is failure. He’s not smart. He’s a reflection of 35% of the population. They feel they can relate to someone as dumb as themselves and gives them a voice. Trump’s only strength is his base. When they leave him, he’ll be gone.

      1. Did you even bother reading the article I cited?

        However, your response does support my contention that “Continued TYT bashing of Trump may increase subscribers; however this approach is a sort of propaganda itself.” Trump may be incompetent and he may appear that he is dumb. However, he is effectively using propaganda. So dumb, smart, or whatever, he is a danger.

        1. Trump is effectively harnessing tribalism. Yes, he does use propaganda in the form of his lies. That’s just his personality though, he’s a con man. His base will show him unconditional love regardless of what he says and he will reconfirm their hatred for the left. If anything, it proves that it doesn’t matter how dumb he is or gets (yet). He can say or do outrageously stupid things and his base will support him.

  6. Why the surprise on the poll regarding people’s trust in the media?

    People’s hate towards journalists is as old as journalism itself and people’s devotion to their political leaders and indifference towards their scandals is just as old.

    Nixon was linked to Watergate a full month before the elections, the then truly liberal media hounded him and the republicans and he still won 49-1 because people distrusted the news that “stabbed us in the back” in Vietnam and it took an economic depression in 73-74 to convince people that Nixon was truly evil. Even so his approval rating remained higher than either Ford or Carter and a large percentage of Americans still believed that the whole affair was fake news.

    Indeed who knows, Greenwald if he was old enough would have started defending him against “fake” WaPo news and demand evidence and discrediting “anonymous” sources.

  7. my take on peeps believing the “fake news” bandwagon, is that there is partial truth in it, and survey questions are themselves notoriously biased with black or white answer choices, no nuance whatever. Are ‘news’ personnel outright making up utterly false shit? Fox, certainly. Others? not really, but kind of….

    …in the ways that there is ZERO fact checking and so they promote whatever outright lie their interviewee is spewing

    … via lies by omission. IMO, corporate media’s crime lies in silence, in NOT reporting critical information, and instead, focusing on identity BS and opinions with no factual backup, a whole lot of propaganda framing.

    People know they are not getting the real or whole truth of any matter at hand, either by omission, or by letting lies be given sans facts or challenge. The marriage between corporate ‘news’, which is actually entertainment for profit, and government leads to what most cable outlets have now…. a whole lot of witch hunt rhetoric and almost no facts. People seem more mis-informed and under-informed than ever, …with more information available than ever.

    If you don’t want to call it ‘fake news ‘, what do you call it? It is most certainly not exploratory, investigative, informative with truthful facts type news…. it is extraordinarily misleading by design. So how does this not meet the definition of ‘fake’? Just because what they do give isn’t necessarily an outright lie? What about the opinions sans facts that gives false impressions to the viewer? The lack of facts and context and preponderance of personality based opinion continually puts out false overall impressions of what the truth actually is, and yes, sometimes reports lies as if they are truth because, again, no fact checking. By hook or crook, falsehoods are being promoted… it’s called propaganda, and they are very very good at it.

    Just because the supreme asshole liar-in-cheif is the one outing cable news. doesn’t necessarily make it completely false. This may be the one arena where donnytinyhands actually has a point.

    Do i think commentators other than Fox deliberately put out false info? Not really. Do I believe their corporate masters frame what can be shared and how? Absolutely. Either way, we have an ill-informed public.

  9. Trump’s approval rating is 38%, close to his record low. Cenk, don’t cite an outlier poll. A lot of people use the RCP average because its been around longer, but the fivethirtyeight average does a better job of properly weighting the polls for both recency and reliability to get a better reflection of the actual views of the people. Their average now shows him at 38%, not far above his record low of 36.8% (8/29) and below his recent (9/25) peak of 39.7. His trend is slowly downward overall with minor peaks and valleys along the way, similar to most Presidents, but starting from WAY lower and without too many points in time that give him large boosts like others have had. He hasn’t hit 40% since 5/15.

    If you compare him to the last 12 Presidents, the only one with similar numbers is part term President Ford. These are the numbers of a part-termer. I’m hoping his part ends soon.

  10. I remember that time over here in Tokyo when a journalist with one of the biggest newspapers in Japan, the Asahi Newspaper, reported on a light summer story about cicadas. His article had a picture of loads of cicadas on one tree trunk, and he said they were all making super loud sounds from their wings to the point of getting the attention of the whole town.

    HE. MADE. IT. UP.

    Get this. He went around snatching cicadas and TAPED the hapless creatures on their undersides to that tree. They fired the guy as soon as word got out. And that was before the internet, about 20 odd years ago.

    Henry Tudor made up LOTS of shit about Richard III, most of that stuff got layered on with more made up stuff from Shakespeare. I don’t know where to BEGIN when it comes to all the shit made up about my fellow black Americans. Governments and news organizations have liked making up stuff for centuries so it used to be hard to find the truths, but not anymore.

    We do live in an awesome age, one where millions upon millions can connect, compare notes and get to the truths. Governments and news organizations with deep pocket sponsors and 30,000/hr anchorpeople do NOT like it when We The People find truths. But they’re going to have to deal with it.

    They’re going to have to quit name calling and be REAL investigative journalists or be irrelevant. Looks like they’ve chosen the latter.

    TYT rules.

  11. i love you Cenk but your quoting of polls needs work. While Trump did reach 44% in one poll it isn’t representative. His RCP average score really hasn’t shifted more than a couple of points in either direction (currently at 39.7%). Individual polls are rarely illustrative of ongoing trends, it’s better to look at many polls over a longer period.

  12. This whole time, I was thinking, TYT is probably on Putin’s radar. I hoped they don’t send people after them. Bots, threats, propaganda or something, but I think the latest comment which goes on for paragraphs might be such a thing. Does TYT employ a tech person to verify these things? Shit-

    1. I’ve watched TYT since 2006 and been a member for many years. Guess for you that means “the Russians did a long-term infiltration, herp-derp”.

    2. Oh, and, btw, what the fuck is this “Anybody who writes a detailed comment is a russian bot!” mindset? Modern McCarthyism at its finest.

  13. Well, then. That last story sure revealed a lot about the mindset of Cenk and Ana. I really wish they (or, y’know, *anybody from TYT) would read these comments we are making, so that maybe, *maybe* they could get a clue why people are thinking the media is making up story wholecloth. But for some weird reason we are lumped into the camp of YouTube and Twitter comments, although we are all members and therefore “family”, as Cenk likes to state on the postgame show.

    Anyway. There is a reason that Americans believe that the media is just making up stories and that is that a.) factchecking has become a thing of the past and b.) they *are* on a witch-hunt against Donald Trump.

    I’ll go quickly over the second point, because it is pretty self-evident. Every small mistake Trump makes (of which there are a lot, of course) is blown up to be “OMG, he is the worst president ever, why can’t we have nice people like Obama and Dubbya back?”. This inevitably produces outrage fatigue and people start to believe that the media is just making stuff up to keep up the outrage.

    At the same time, other real problems caused by Trump are ignored which many Americans know should be talked about are ignored or minimized, because they don’t fit into the mainstream media bias category. When he attacks healthcare, nobody is talking about single payer because both parties don’t really want it. When he blows up children with drones, nobody talks about it, because both parties did it. When he casually spends 700 billion dollars on more unneeded military budget, nobody in the MSM complains about it, since both parties want it.

    Now, to the first point: Since the MSM feels a need to keep the public outraged at all times about Trump (just check Huffington Post for the outrage story of the day, you’ll find several), they just post whatever leaking sources tell them. Fact checking is almost non-existant. I keep coming back to the Russia hysteria thing, because it is the prime example of this attitude. Instead of writing my own poor prose, I’ll just copy/paste a section of Glenn Greenwalds article from The Intercept, link follows: https://theintercept.com/2017/09/28/yet-another-major-russia-story-falls-apart-is-skepticism-permissible-yet/

    “But this is no isolated incident. Quite the contrary: this has happened over and over and over again. Inflammatory claims about Russia get mindlessly hyped by media outlets, almost always based on nothing more than evidence-free claims from government officials, only to collapse under the slightest scrutiny, because they are entirely lacking in evidence.

    The examples of such debacles when it comes to claims about Russia are too numerous to comprehensively chronicle. I wrote about this phenomenon many times and listed many of the examples, the last time in June when 3 CNN journalists “resigned” over a completely false story linking Trump adviser Anthony Scaramucci to investigations into a Russian investment fund which the network was forced to retract:
    Remember that time the Washington Post claimed that Russia had hacked the U.S. electricity grid, causing politicians to denounce Putin for trying to deny heat to Americans in winter, only to have to issue multiple retractions because none of that ever happened? Or the time that the Post had to publish a massive editor’s note after its reporters made claims about Russian infiltration of the internet and spreading of “Fake News” based on an anonymous group’s McCarthyite blacklist that counted sites like the Drudge Report and various left-wing outlets as Kremlin agents?

    Or that time when Slate claimed that Trump had created a secret server with a Russian bank, all based on evidence that every other media outlet which looked at it were too embarrassed to get near? Or the time the Guardian was forced to retract its report by Ben Jacobs – which went viral – that casually asserted that WikiLeaks has a long relationship with the Kremlin? Or the time that Fortune retracted suggestions that RT had hacked into and taken over C-SPAN’s network? And then there’s the huge market that was created – led by leading Democrats – that blindly ingested every conspiratorial, unhinged claim about Russia churned out by an army of crazed conspiracists such as Louise Mensch and Claude “TrueFactsStated” Taylor?

    And now we have the Russia-hacked-the-voting-systems-of-21-states to add to this trash heap. Each time the stories go viral; each time they further shape the narrative; each time those who spread them say little to nothing when it is debunked.”

    *This* is why people believe the news are made up. Because the media, in its hysteria to print every negative story about a terrible president it wants gone, is not checking itself anymore if those stories are factual and not serving some narrative members of the intelligence agencies or other institutions are wanting out there about Trump. Some of those surely would like him gone, others want to shape public discourse so nobody is looking at them, some want to deflect from their own mistakes (i.e. the DNC, the Hillary campaign).

    It would behoove Cenk and Ana to come out of their own echo chamber for a bit and look around at what has happened over the last year in that regard. They are still in the “Russia collaborated with Trump” religious zealotry mode which prevents them from reading more critical sources like Greenwald, Taibbi, Scahill and others who otherwise would be their allies. That has never been more painfully clear than with this latest segment, where they can’t seem to grasp why the public is losing their trust of them (as in “the media” as a whole).

    1. I wish they would read our comments also. I can’t watch the shows live and I feel like if you can’t or don’t tweet you are irrelevant.

    2. On the Russia story.

      Once again, the reason why your side loses is because you treat politics with kids gloves and approach potential scandals like the Russia story with a holier-than-thou attitude. The Russia “hysteria” as you call it is perfectly justified just like the Benghazi hysteria. It is solely to score political points and it is working since even Trump’s core supporters think there is merit to the story.

      Unlike Benghazi however, there is actual evidence to such collaboration. I will believe Trump Jr. and take his word about his father’s affairs with Russia over Greenwald, Taibi or the rest of self-flagellators any time of the day.

    3. magnuskn, I agree. I have no love for trump to put it nicely, but if the left/dems don’t snap out of it’s Trump induced hysteria, they have little chance of taking back the congress or the senate.

  15. OMG, those stats about Trump and the media were totally depressing. We don’t deserve to have nice things, like freedom of the speech, democracy and a liveable planet.
    P.S. I feel your outrage Ana, WTF.

  16. Everybody must see a doctor when walking into an emergency room, because the % of people with weird but urgent noncritical looking issues is significanly higher
    it is free
    not any hospital is allowed to refuse anybody at any time
    Ow wait that is the netherlands :-)

      1. Yes, like many English speakers when their name isn’t English.
        I lived next to Vigelands Parken(park) for most of my life, so I should know how to pronounce it. ;)

  19. You guys are very defensive about the “fake news” polls. I think there’s more to it than just the simple question of “does the media completely fabricate stories?” It’s also “fake”/misleading/dishonest to routinely publish sensational, biased, click-bait headlines and snapshots of articles that don’t give the whole story, which is how a lot of the media operates now. In a world where people focus on the headline/summary and don’t take the time to read the whole story, that comes across as untrue. No, the government shouldn’t regulate the press. But at the same time, the free press does have a responsibility for honest information and discourse. The fact that they have lost the trust of the American people isn’t only the people’s problem…

  20. Is there a possibility that the questions about the “fake news” and revoking the licenses of news agencies were worded in a way that was confusing? Could there have been some misunderstanding of the meaning of the questions? I’m thinking there is a possibility that SOME of the people answered in the way they did because they thought the question of “fake news” included biased reporting. Also, some people could have answered the way they did because of Fox “news”, they do have what I would consider to be fake. Other fringe “news” organizations could have been included in people’s answers (Alex Jones, Breitbart, etc .)

  21. hospitals will use the fact that some people have no health insurance to turn then away. that’s what this is about. this is a terrible precedent and should never happen.

  23. I was molested when I was little for many years. All this talk about sexual harrasment and assault has triggered a bunch of nightmares. I thought i was over it.
    It is really sad that so many young girls amd boys have gone through what I have gone through. It breaks my heart.

  24. Ethically, no hospital can turn anyone away, unless there is a clear plan for the patient’s care. All physicians took the Hippocratic oath, which says, “First, Do No Harm.” Just dumping a patient can be harmful.

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