Aggressive Progressives: Aug 17, 2017

In Aggressive Progressives - On Demand, Membership by Gigi Manukyan50 Comments

Jimmy Dore, Stef Zamorano, Steve Oh and Malcolm Fleschner talk Trump’s Charlottesville comments, the Netroots convention, the media and more.

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  4. The reason Democrats want to work with the republicans is twofold: they get to prance around and say that they’re being bipartisan, which the media will adore; and when healthcare is destroyed for millions of people, they will be able to point to that as a way of winning future elections. So Trumps says, “Let Obamacare implode and we can blame it on the Democrats,” while the Democrats say, “Let Obamacare implode and we can blame it on the Republicans.” Meanwhile, no one in power gives a shit about the healthcare of millions of people.

  5. Hello Jimmy, I was wondering if you’ve ever had David Korten on your show? Today on Alternative Radio I heard his speech entitled “Toward an Ecological Civilization” (Recorded in Edmonton, Alberta on January 30, 2017) and he talks about how corporate greed is destroying our planet. He is articulate and intelligent, I think he would be a great guest on AP!

  8. Can I say that I just LOVE LOVE LOVE Jimmy Dore & Steph “The Miserable Liberal”?? They are savages & I love it!!! I have yet to hear anything come out of either of their mouths that I’m not like “YES!!! EXACTLY!!!!!” The part where Steph says that there wouldn’t be such explosive energy in this country if people weren’t suffering! She nailed it!!! I’ve been saying exactly that for YEARS now. And the other part about sick people not being able to protest?? YES!!!!! I have an aggressive autoimmune disease that I’ve lost 6 feet of intestine to & the most I can do is use social media to virtually protest these issues. I would LOVE to go & participate in these marches & I can’t stand up long enough to wash a sink of dishes, so forget walking miles in a protest!!!!! I rely on my fellow americans to be at those marches & protests & I think there are millions like me in this country that are just too sick to participate. And if I’d had adequate medical care throughout the last 13 years, I wouldn’t be missing 6 feet of intestine & resigned to crapping in a bag for the rest of my life… So THANK YOU to all who stand up & march for those of us who physically cannot!!!!!xoxo

  9. Europe supports the American war. Even when it was the illegal iraqi one. As long as you are killing them in the middle east they will want revenge. Some of them have nothing left. And the death toll in the middle east is unimaginable. Even if they repeated the barcelona incident everyday for a year it wont even come close

  11. We here in Barcelona are bouncing back from the recent terror attack. But I am now at the point where I am angry. Outraged. Fuming. Because I know that the people who lost their lives here – mothers and their children among them – died because of George W. Bush and his criminal invasion of Iraq.

    Prior to the US invasion, there was no ISIS. These miscreants were spawned as a direct result of the US invasion and occupation of Iraq, something which Bernie Sanders has rightly called the greatest foreign policy blunder in US history.

    During the recent election, people seemed all too happy to downplay the global catastrophe that grew out of the Iraq war. And we all know why. I will not rehash the campaign, but I must say that I have found renewed hatred and anger now that the ongoing waves of misery and destruction unleashed by Bush and Co. have washed up on my own shores.

    And I have anger too for those Establishment Democrats and media figures who continue to try to rehabilitate Bush. Every time I see someone like Nancy Pelosi or Bill Maher wistfully long for the “good old days” when George Bush was President, I want to throw up. I want them to look at those scenes from the Ramblas and realise that Bush committed a criminal act all those years ago, and we are all having to live with the ongoing terror and danger and death that stems directly from his ignorant, arrogant and illegal actions.

  12. Really wish this was more than once a week, it’s really interesting and very different perspective than the two hour segment, which I also enjoy but Jimmy and his team are very thought provoking and I often find myself realizing things I wouldn’t have noticed without Jimmy’s show. I would love to see more of Jimmy, like 2-3 times a week, if he was up to it, of course.

    Thanks!

  13. Aggressive Progressive rocks !!! Great observation about the “Club Repubs” trying to distance themselves from their Orange Crush — while the wimpy establishment Dems keep playing “how low can you go” with Wall Street. TYT is fast becoming the only watchable network … Sinclair already has Boris jabbering on my local NBC … Oh, Brave New World (it’s not …) …

  14. So sick of this site glitching out. Could you please spend some of that 20M sorting out your fucking shit, pretty please?

  15. That picture with the guy wearing a Nazi armband was from a Youtube prank channel. He wore it to a Trump rally during the general election to see how they’d respond and they chased him off because they didn’t like Nazis. Naturally it was before the actual neo-Nazis started sticking their heads out en masse and before they really started radicalizing people.

    Now to the main issue.

    There is recurring issue where nobody is willing to acknowledge how bad the violent element of the Left is. You have moderates on both sides, but then you have the Alt-Right, white nationalists, and Nazis on the Right. At this particular conflict it was one of these neo-Nazis who murdered an innocent woman and wounded nineteen more. There’s no denying that. Fields was definitely radicalized at some point and his ideology is likely part of what drove him to take violent action.

    What people have been trying to ignore is the radical anarchist, communist, and black block elements on the Left. Antifa started attacking rightwing people – literally beating people half to death – as far back as inauguration day and the February 1st Berkeley riot, where people ended up hospitalized and stores were burned and looted because one guy wanted to speak on a college campus. These weren’t Nazis. They were there to see a man who was both homosexual and Jewish. They were just right wing people who were brutalized.

    Since then there has been an escalation of violence and radicalism on both sides of the fence, which should be recognized. The shields Malcolm commented on were there for a reason if you look at the larger context. I’ll elaborate. When this started you had mostly moderates and some lunatics. Then Antifa started attacking people consistently after Berkeley. The folks on the right then, in response to the violence from the radicals on the Left, started wearing armor, picking up shields, and soon both sides were bringing guns. This isn’t a storm in a tea cup. They felt a legitimate fear for their safety and started armoring up in response to having fireworks shot at them or getting beaten with bats and clubs. There was even a guy who tried to prevent violence and an Antifa member struck him in the head with a bike lock. These are horrible people.

    As the violent rallies continued both sides picked up military jargon and both sides stopped acknowledging the opposite side were human beings. Now it’s like 75% lunatics to 25% moderates out there and both sides are out for blood.

    The real problem is that people on both sides of the spectrum feel slighted. They have real legitimate concerns with wages, rights, healthcare, etc. and because of that have looked for some larger faction to align with and scapegoats to blame. Antifa are recruiting disenfranchised progressives and making them into violent sociopaths just as the neo-Nazis, white nationalists and Alt-Right have been recruiting disenfranchised rightwing people and doing the same to them.

    Many people I know are online proudly talking about how they pretty much want a civil war in the USA. The militaristic jargon has been like this for a while and Charlottesville only magnified it further. I’m like “No. People on both sides need to calm the f- down. They need to think rationally.” and I’m looked at like a crazy person.

    Nazi ideology is legitimately evil. Their ideals need to be stomped into the dirt where they belong and that’s why counter protests are great. Their ideology needs to be opposed. But you are not at war with these Nazis. They are your neighbors, your family members… Folks may not like it, but they are Americans too. You don’t “bash the fash,” you try to work out why they’re being radicalized and you try to prevent it or undo it. That’s why they really need to bring back those anti-radicalization programs the Republicans got rid of.

    The neo-Nazis are bad, but that doesn’t make Antifa good. It just happens that we sane people share an ideological enemy with them. We both oppose fascism. We are both ‘anti-fascist.’ That doesn’t mean we stop calling them out when they go out and brutalize people in the streets, set cars on fire, cause riots, and loot local businesses, all the while dressed in all black – including masks – and while flying sinister black and red banners.

    Here’s a pretty decent article on them by everyone’s favorite network:

    http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/18/us/unmasking-antifa-anti-fascists-hard-left/index.html

    1. Seems to me you just took several paragraphs to make the same point Trump did. Bad guys on both sides. BS. My grandfather fought the fascists, and anybody willing to stand up to armed Nazis in America gets my support. It’s not that complicated. Evil flourishes when good men do nothing.

      1. So when Antifa showed up all those months ago and started burning down businesses of people who were not Nazis… they were doing good work? When they started attacking normal rightwingers who were, you know, NOT Nazis, they were being heroic? When Eric Clanton bashed a man in the head with a bike lock for the horrid crime of trying to keep Antifa and the Trump supporters peaceful he was being a patriot? Like you said…. BS.

        Trump’s an idiot and a racist but even a broken clock is right twice a day. Both sides have bad elements.

        Your post characterizes me as though I’m defending the Nazis. Hell no. Their disgusting ideology should be nowhere near power. Their ideals are evil and, as I said before, should be opposed. Counter protests are great. When the forty-thousand people showed up to protest in Boston they weren’t charging the smaller rally the rightwing set up there, but their (mostly) peaceful presence spoke volumes. There was some violence, including violence against the police (who I should remind you aren’t Nazis), but only 20 odd people were arrested. For the most part they were civil, well-behaved, and yet were a show of ideological force.

        Maybe it’s because I’m a crazy Canadian that I believe one should combat bad ideas with good ideas instead of being brutish and trying to solve problems with beatings. Maybe I’m wrong for thinking that these disenfranchised people can be turned away from the dark path with reason and hope instead bat swings or bullets. Maybe I’m wrong for assuming better of people.

        This current madness has only happened because there were consistent escalations in violence at these sorts of rallies for months now. People did not come to these events armed in the beginning, but after hearing about and seeing videos of the violence in previous events they started arming themselves out of self-preservation. If they weren’t attacked in the beginning than maybe we wouldn’t be dealing with these people now. Maybe the neo-Nazi faction wouldn’t be growing as it seems to be if people weren’t driven by fear to radicalize. There are people on the far fanatical Right who praise what is being done by groups like Antifa because it pushes people to them. People become more polarized because of the violence.

        But screw my opinions. I’m clearly, as Cenk would say, too much of a lib. Go ahead with your Edmund Burke. Go ahead and attack them and give them more reasons to go to these rallies armed. Have fun with the American Civil War 2.0.

        …or we can always consider another famous line: “An eye for an eye will leave everyone blind.”

        1. I get what you mean. I believe that hate can be fought with love and when we show Nazis violence we are giving them what they want.

          Violence is violence is violence. Sure, violence can at times be justified, but we have to be careful how we describe it lest we become liars and propagandists. Antifa, in my opinion, is wasting it’s efforts with any sort of violence against any hate-group. Mind you, it’s on our corporate media when they choose to portray antifa as on the same moral and intellectual plane as Nazis, giving no context to their actions or fair comparison to the groups they counter protest. For example, doesn’t it grind your gears that local police forces, more so our own all-powerful government, would allow for water-protectors and native americans to be brutalized as they peacefully protested and stalled a monumental threat of the environment and clean water to millions of americans–not to mention a shameful breach of a treaty, a promise we made? And then they let these bastards “protecting” what? a brass statue? their egos? in the streets, terrorizing groups unrelated to their precious bronzed block of metal all the while running around with guns? Is that okay with you? Even when military action was taken to “stabilize” the situation in Ferguson and Baltimore?

          No, Antifa is not the solution, but they are an understandable consequence of the world our government has permitted. At the very least, they should stand in as the

    2. >The real problem is that people on both sides of the spectrum feel slighted.

      I can guarantee you the Antifa do not feel “slighted.” They fight fascism.

  16. I agree with Steve Oh there are no backroom schemes being hatched but the axiom of “Divide and Rule” is in play. During my military career, it was modus operandi to keep the pot stirred between natural allies by playing on their weaknesses and suspicions of each other.

    1. Heh, I was going to suggest a nickname, Steve Naive. If you don’t think schemes like this are hatched by small committees of “leaders” in both parties, you’re naive. You might as well not believe in the Deep State, or that money influences politicians.

  17. Good show, great points by the whole crew. Many have said that the War Machine is America’s Jobs Program. The Nazi Protestors were probably well trained since they probably trained in Standing Rock and Ferguson. What was the difference from the cops and the Nazi Protestors and the American Military and the Israeli occupation? Did you see the presentation by the son of an Israeli general that served in the military in Gaza and he quit when he heard a Palestinian Mother screaming and it reminded him of the screams of his mother who had survived a concentration camp. He started a peace tour, but when he went to America he talked with some cops who showed him some pictures of his father training the cops using the same tactics that they use in Gaza. I think that your Jobs Program is coming home to roost. It is time to keep talking and stand up to power.
    Please don’t talk about political options, since you don’t use Paper Ballots and so any “election” is just wank time. Start the Green Revolution. Keep pushing to have a demonstration for $15, Medicare for all, Green jobs, electric cars, battery factories.
    You talk about Trump’s policies, he has no policies. Didn’t you see the video of Goober Norquist in 2010 when he said the Republicans wanted a president in 2016 with a pen. They don’t care if he is one of the most sophisticated, cosmopolitan, articulate personalities that has ever graced our lives. They just want him to sign their laws.

  18. Steph: “What’s his name? Where’s he from? Cut his mic. OK, next guy.” Haha. Steph +1… Jimmy does a good job at opening it up to the rest of the panel this episode. Steve Oh, Malcolm Fleschner, and Stef Zamorano are fine contributors. I liked how Steve agreed with Jimmy on how democrats should make Trump stick to other republicans like glue, and how Clinton screwed up during the election by not doing that… Always nice to see Jordan Chariton on the program… Aggressive Progressives is my favorite show on the TYT network. Something I’d like to see on AP in a future episode would be a reflective interview with someone on the PsyOps of Russiagate. After the The Nation reported that the DNC files weren’t hacked but rather leaked (https://www.thenation.com/article/a-new-report-raises-big-questions-about-last-years-dnc-hack/), russiagate is finally fading into the background after a year long campaign of non-stop hysteria. Haha. A giant “I told you so” interview with someone like Max Blumenthal or Abby Martin would be especially satisfying to watch on Aggressive Progressives… Keep up the great work! Love the show!!!

  20. I have “really good” dental insurance provided by my employer, as well as a great dentist. Unfortunately, I also have really bad teeth.

    My dental insurance covers 50% of any work greater than a filling (the most basic solution to small cavities), and caps out at an annual limit of $1500. Thanks to my excessively shitty teeth, which I inherited from my parents at no fault of my own, my dentist recommends multiple crowns a year.

    A crown costs $1500 on average, so that’s $700 out of pocket every time I need one; and, I averaged 2-3 a year, when my mom was paying for them. That’s not affordable for a young, college-educated woman, who’s now on her own, making barely $40k/year with student loan payments of $500/month and rent of $1000+/month. To the dismay of my mother, I’ve chosen to let my teeth rot out of my head because groceries and rent are more important than pretty teeth.

    That’s the situation when you have “really good” dental insurance. That’s the situation when you go to college to get a “good job” that provides “really good” insurance. I don’t want to imagine what it’s like to have less.

    1. @The Young Scientist

      I am with you 100%, same exact issues, same genetics. I make good money and work for a great company, pay out $500 in school loan and $1200 in rent. I end up with about 2 crowns or partial crowns a year and they just keep going on credit cards. I am in San Diego and I just started asking my Mexican coworkers where they go to get their work done. One person just got 2 root canals and crowns for $200 in Mexico. I am now considering this alternative because this is insane.

      1. Wow, are situations are crazy similar. Thanks for the info, I’m definitely going to look into a dental vacation to Mexico (I can’t believe I just typed that…).

        1. hahaha i know it sounds crazy but hey if i end up with a good one i trust i will give you the name and location :-p

  21. You can’t take away symbols, that are meaningful to someone else, and expect no blow back.

    I’m sorry that those symbols are offensive, and more importantly that they represent (to us) a very ugly time in our nation’s history.

    (And give me a break. I’m not condoning the behavior of people who ram cars or bullets into innocents. That’s not what I’m talking about).

    But spitting and kicking objects of importance to people, is not an act of kindness towards those people. We may feel like heroes, because we believe we are protecting African Americans from painful offensive memories. But we are also dismissing the very real programming that has taken place, inside the minds of these sorry individuals.

    You can’t break that programming, by spitting on it. I’m sorry if this doesn’t sound like a Progressive pov.

    I’m done talking about this. It truly is, like talking to a wall. We feel so good about ourselves, protecting the feelings of the downtrodden and enslaved, that we forget to respect that others might also feel offended with how we go about it.

    There has to be a better way. You know, like simply punishing people who commit acts of violence, but focusing the rest of our efforts on dismantling or neutering the systemic sources of racism and violence.

    1. You CAN take away their symbols.
      They are using these statues as totems & symbols to rally around and worship.
      You also can MOVE the statues to Confederate cemeteries and museums.

      Did Germany say, “Well, we can’t move all these statues of Hitler, because it will upset some people.”
      No, they didn’t do that. They MOVED them. Pity we can’t learn from a country that had out-of-the-closet Nazis run their country. Our Nazi’s are still pretending their Republicans.

      So how do you suggest breaking their programming?
      Because enabling an addict or abusive individual does NOT work.
      Punishing people who do violence is one way. But, isn’t that what is just suppose to happen?
      Oh wait, it DOESN’T work when innocent blacks are killed by police officers and the cops get off scott free.

      Sorry if I sound angry.
      This whole week, listening to conservatives around me, is about to make my head explode.

      1. You do this, chetzmom – you go down the road of dismissing people who have strong attachments, albeit irrational, to those symbols – and you’re guaranteed to make things worse.

        And yes – we’re dealing with police shootings, the wrong way. The main TYT team thinks of it partly in terms of training, and that’s certainly better than just repeating the word ‘racist’ over and over.

        I think the way to approach the problem with police violence, is to explore the use of non-lethal weapons, in law enforcement. It’s an open question, as to how much risk it is, to law enforcement. But if e.g. taser-style weapons aren’t completely effective yet, then put more funding into alternatives, until we find more effective technologies.

        This approach won’t change the racist perceptions that some police officers might have. But it would save the lives of scores of minorities, and many whites, as well. That’s more important than fixing racism, for which our current strategies are ill-conceived and ineffective.

        1. As far as the ‘let’s give the cop non-lethal weapons and that will solve the problem” is again bullshit. The problem is the type of people that are hired, the vetting of potential officers and that there is no long-term training to make sure cops aren’t abusing their power. Have you not heard about the problems with chokeholds and beatings with nightsticks? Those are supposedly “non-lethal” but I doubt you would want one of those things used on you. I have a scar running along the left side of my head from a “non-lethal” weapon from law enforcement. Lethal weapons are part of the problem, the people behind the badge are the main problem

          The whole “just a few bad apples” argument does not take into account the silence and protection the the supposed “good cops” provide for the “bad apples”. That means they are all rotten.

          1. Who is making a ‘few bad apples’ argument?

            I’m not interested in weeding out the bad guys and the good guys, from the police. This problem is systemic, and putting in the right people is largely subjective.

            I want to make it impossible for the police to kill innocents, and ultimately impossible for them to kill anyone.

            Ultimately, it will come down to technology, not some subjective test or training that might help prevent a few mistakes. Even the best officers can succumb to peer pressure.

            So, I’ll say the word, and risk the silly connotations: RoboCop. Not necessarily humanoid beasts with legs and arms. But machines with sensors and non-lethal weapons, and an attitude that their lives are not more important than the civilians they serve.

            And not necessarily autonomous. Trained law enforcement might control them remotely. But the main thing, is that they wouldn’t be able to kill people, and all of their movements and the environment should be recorded, for examination by non-law enforcement.

            So, no TTDM – I don’t agree with your premise that we can fix the problem, by focusing on the people who join the force. I’m with Jimmy, that generally you don’t want a job that bosses people around, unless you like bossing people around. You’re right that the people behind the badge are the problem, so far – but this can neutered (eventually), by making it impossible for their attitudes to harm anyone.

        2. Dan Campbell, you still didn’t answer the question of the reason these people have this strong attachment.
          WHY do so many conservatives & Republican voters (not the talking heads on TV) have this visceral reaction?
          Because they are nostalgic for a “Gone With the Wind” South that NEVER really existed?
          They may say that, but I don’t even they really believe it.

          I’m in Michigan … Michigan fought for the Union.
          But, there are people here who have the Confederate flag on their trucks & at their homes. They make a lot of noise about how “the Alt-left attacked those guys who were marching with permits.”
          They SYMPATHIZE with the NAZIS! Why do you think that is? Because of their deep-seated affection for the Old South? No. It’s because of what that Flag & those statues represent to them. Their underlying belief that they are “better” than other races.

          The totems need to be moved. They were marching in the street with tiki torches!
          So we leave the statues, allow the Nazi rallies, allow them to carry GUNS and wear combat gear while they march. Contrary to what you may believe, there are many more secret supporters of this, who are still “with Trump.”

          How long do you suggest we “understand their feelings?”
          When they are burning crosses in front of synagogues or mosques?
          Did you even watch AP today?
          The police in Charlottesville DID NOTHING TO STOP THEM.

          Our politicians and the pundits seem to want to call everything even, or distance them selves from Trump … which we CANNOT let them do. He’s the Republicans, Corporate Dems and MSM’s monster, let’s see how many go down with his ship.

          1. “The totems need to be moved. They were marching in the street with tiki torches!”

            Torches are different than statues. And besides, marching with torches, without attacking anyone, isn’t a deadly activity.

            ‘So we leave the statues, allow the Nazi rallies, allow them to carry GUNS and wear combat gear while they march. ‘

            Guns are a separate issue, and we haven’t been able to deal with that, yet. But yes, leave the statues, and allow the rallies. Follow proper procedures, when actual violence is committed.

            ‘Contrary to what you may believe, there are many more secret supporters of this, who are still “with Trump.”’

            I don’t care if someone who agrees with me on some issue, also supports a leader we despise.

            ‘How long do you suggest we “understand their feelings?”’

            We don’t have to understand anything. Only to respect that those feelings exist. And not delude ourselves into thinking that we can solve this problem, by removing their artifacts.

          2. I agree chetzmom. The statue was placed in 1920 to remind black people that they are still second (maybe third) class citizens – if citizens they are even allowed to be. It’s a symbol of racist oppression of black people. How do you think those whose ancestors were enslaved feel? Fuck the nazi racists.

      2. Absolutely agree Chetzmom. They cry about the heritage of these symbols which is bullshit. After WWII Germany removed ALL symbols to Nazism and left up places like Aushwitz (sorry, I probably spelled that wrong) to remind them to never allow it to happen again. These fucks want symbols; how about Robert E Lee in chains with a plaque saying “this is what happens to traitors that take up arms against our country”.

  22. Well done @42:30. Everytime people obfuscate, tie policy issues right into their talking points. Economy, single payer, affordable college, etc.

  23. Yet again. Great show. Pity the show was before the Bannon firing.

    I imagine most of your audience wouldn’t feel too bad about releasing the entire second part of the show about the Netroots convention. Important points about the problem with the Democratic party message were elaborated on which are greatly in need of dissemination. Great stuff.

  24. Well said Stef, Jobs, a home, health care, an overall general sense of security for you and/or your family goes a long way. Folks ain’t sieg heiling if your life is good.

  25. Jordan needs to be a regular on the show. And the show should be at least 3 times a week. Just saying.

  26. Jimmy, check out John Pilger “On The Beach ” Also I appreciate Stef saying how the biggest victims have the least abilities to network with other people to fight back. Too busy trying to survive!

  28. Jimmy, you are a lunatic…thank goodness.

    1.) Thank you for reminding your viewers that Steve Schmidt was responsible for Sarah Palin. Political punditry consumers should never forget this, just as voters should never forget who voted for the Iraq War and never vote for them again.

    2.) The party hack who espoused the party-sanctioned campaign philosophy to run on local values is simply a way of entrenching the status quo. This is a simple, yet, clever strategy. Note: if people listen to what they already know, they will never think and grow. (Rhyme intended.) Case in point: Bernie said things last year that did not directly affect me, but I saw it’s value to my community, my state and our nation! We should be lifting people up, not allowing them to dog-paddle in a quagmire of not-knowing-there-is-better. Campaigning is an expression of hope, voting is the concurrence in that hope, while governing is the delivery of that hope.

  31. To the woman in yellow talking with Jordan: first off, Senator Sanders has NOT been in the Senate for 30 years. If you don’t know the difference between the House and the Senate you have little credibility on federal politics. But with your anti-Bernie rhetoric you should fit in nicely with the rest of the corporate-bought Democrats.

    Second, we aren’t “acting like Bernie Sanders just invented economic equality.” We are telling you that we can see his authenticity and sincere desire to address the issues at their roots. His words and actions match. Study him instead of dismissing and deriding him. You might become a better human being.

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