Post Game: July 13, 2017

In Post Game - On Demand by Gigi Manukyan56 Comments

Cenk & Ana talk lack of affordable housing.

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  2. I’m actually really surprised that according to Ana, 1 bd apartments in LA cost 2500-3000k, sounds like prices in my neighborhood in Chicago, and I know LA is way more expensive than Chicago. I pay 1000 for a 250 sq ft studio lol.

  4. Ana, if you’d been born during Carter, you’d understand why it is unacceptable to pay more than 25% of your income for housing. You also need to grasp that money has been engineered, housing prices made to fit the rich since Reagan. I remember believing I’d have a fair shake with a reasonable education, and I saw my middle class family struggle and drown under relying on stocks and investments that were manipulated to make the rich richer. We did everything right, but we still struggle because of this. My perspective is that of a child of a man who worked for Crane and Co. in Dalton, Ma., running the boilers that powered the machines that print our money. It is that if a woman who was a trust officer in Berkshire Bank, when it was BCSB and through several mergers with other financial entities. My sisters and I have all been Federally bonded, and I can tell you, our banking system is a scam now. The stock market is just more obvious. When I opened my very first bank account, I was in 2nd grade, maybe younger. So around 1978 I learned this. I asked my grandmother, who was no slouch (we call her The Great One), why don’t I just keep my money at home, in front of me? Why let someone else hold onto it? She explained the following; We put our money in as an investment, as a trust in the establishment we are investing in and that should expand opportunity for all, thus creating a greater economy. The more people have money, they more they will spend. And if they are wise, this will help them save some. By depositing our money, we earn interest, so we earn money by investing and trusting they will invest wisely and make everyone more money. Yes, they have more responsibility, but that’s on them and the way things are now. This is why we are paid interest. It is a scheduled payment of Trust that they will make money and it’s payment for your investment in that endeavor. You are partly paying for your trust in those who invest with YOUR money that you decided to invest with them…. Now, we are beholden to them, and can do nothing without a card. If we don’t keep a minimum balance, we pay. If we don’t have direct deposit, we pay. For what?! They still are using our money to invest, but now dangerously, and WE have to PAY them for not LOANING them enough! It’s the same with anything else. You have faith in a dollar bill that it will be honored as face value. Why? It’s paper and ink that isn’t backed by anything, not even our industry anymore, let alone the Gold Standard, lmao! It’s worse than you think, and you are just now encountering the beginning of the bullshit. Welcome to being an adult in THEIR world, which makes no sense to me, but I can explain it. I just did.
    Enjoy the inequality, because that’s what our system has become.

  5. My husband and I are in a decent size two bedroom apartment on the edge of town. They raised the rent a few months ago and we are just barely scraping by on my part time income, and my husband’s VA disability. We have been working hard to pull ourselves up and out of poverty by lowering our costs of living. We managed to get a $0 down VA home loan, all inclusive. But it’s such a small amount that we can’t buy here. Now we have the opportunity to become home owners and reduce our living costs by half. The catch is we have to move out of state. We’re trying desperately to cover moving costs. GoFundMe.com/FamilyHome4Vet

      1. I got this job when I was in college. I’ve only been out for a few months. I’ve been looking for a second job, no no luck as of yet.

  6. This is a great subject to actually do reporting in. For the main show. Do research. Expose the issue. Educate people like cenk.

  7. Anne is right. There is a major housing issue all over the country. We have a major affordable housing shortage and units sitting empty all over the country is making the situation worse. Cent is being way too condescending.

  8. Cenk really needs to do some more research about the housing issues, there are several measures that can be taken and should be taken. Otherwise you end up like Paris, with what are essentially slums outside the city with high crime rates and other issues that come about when you force the working classes out of the area they work in.’ You can come and visit the nice area and work as a nurse or a teacher, you can serve us our drinks or clean our houses but you can’t stay peasants, get on the bus and sod off to the outskirts so you don’t spoil our splendid views.’

  9. This is the first time in a year or two of watching this show every day that I started to grit my teeth and had to shut it off. Hearing Cenk say that people just need to keep moving further and further out, and that that is the ‘solution’ to the housing crisis, is patently insane.
    There are countless solutions to the housing crisis that Cenk just ignored and basically said “Tough luck”.
    You would think by this point, when he is able to acknowledge that a point-of-view is coming from his ‘conservative’ side, it is a position that supports this HELL that we who have to cling on and live check-to-check live through.
    Move out of the city? And then my travel costs increase in tandem, resulting in my cost of living actually being HIGHER than it would be if i live in the city where there is already an insane cost of living.

  10. There is a way around it. Just make a maximum rent price that landlords can charge based on a median income of a city. There is more demand for low income housing than highrise buildings.

  11. I know he always has pushed regulated capitalism, I just think he’s wrong in this regard. He needs to push is capitalism/socialism further to the left IMO. ?

  12. Keep the PG informative and engaging. Also share positive constructive thoughts encouraging the audience to do good, and to be good and contribute to others, and enjoy their lives etc. I don’t like it when it all goes down to complaining, like non-stop.

    1. I might be wrong Avi, but I think the hoa topic is coming to a close, anyway. She finally had a chance to confront them to some extent, so this might be the last you hear of it.

      Regarding housing expenses in general, it’s a real problem, and some of us mentioned it, in some of the Youtube videos. Maybe Cenk and Ana took that as encouragement, that people were interested in hearing about it.

      Anyway, you should get Dave tonight, and then Ana and Cenk will have the weekend break, and maybe they’ll be in a cheery mood. I personally enjoy hearing anything Ana talks about, to me she just seems genuine and vulnerable. But obviously, many don’t feel the same way.

  13. Love Ana but the past like 6 post games have been about housing/ her place or the HOA…. I get it… I’m a struggling millennial. Housing is a big problem all over the country. Let’s talk about something else for a change.

  14. Cenk said what we all were feeling when Ana starts to bring up her favorite whine…housing, renting, her low pay etc. etc.

  16. Ana should stop complaining about housing, unless she has an idea for a solution. We aren’t going to switch to socialized housed anytime soon and we definitely aren’t going to shove the poor back into tenements. Los Angeles is a bubble of the richest in the country and it’s what makes it Los Angeles. The rest of the country is doing ok. So, if you can’t make it in the big city, move out.

    1. The rest of the country is NOT doing okay. Affordable housing in disappearing in every major city across the country, and it’s not just a scarcity issue — it’s a corporate corruption issue — which is why this discussion belongs on TYT. In San Francisco, for example, corrupt mayor Ed Lee has given tech companies huge tax breaks and allowed their shuttle buses to clog traffic and utilize public bus stops. Tax money that could have funded public transportation systems was therefore not collected and suddenly, due to the luxury shuttles, the city was flooded with high-paid tech employees, who, without the shuttles, may have remained in Silicon Valley closer to work. The shuttled workers quickly began to displace long-time tenants, as rents trippled. San Francisco has always been expensive, but city policies clearly contributed to the exodus of working and middle class people. Same thing is happening in Seattle with Amazon. People expect high rents in good places — they don’t, and shouldn’t, expect their politicians to roll out the red carpet for billion-dollar companies and give them a free ride, when those companies SHOULD be paying into the communities where they are sourcing their employees; not to mention, companies like google, facebook, and twitter are using these cities as a selling point for young new recruits.

  17. As to the half-vacant high rise where they refuse to lower the rent: I have a theory. I’d love to know if I’m on the right track. First of all they can’t lower rent, or they’ll lower the valuation of the property. The supposition is that a 200 unit high rise where the average unit rents at $4000, is worth much more as a building than one where the average unit rents at $2000.

    Additionally, there could be triggering clauses in the loans for these places, that make lowering the rent very punitive. Suppose a lender supplies 5 million, provided there is income sufficient to repay, which the lender believes will require average rent at $4000. So a clause is put in, that if rent goes below that threshold, then full repayment is automatically due.

    Trying to figure out why so much supply is unable to match with so much demand.

  18. I really love Ana and I completely understand that the post game is an informal platform, but I’m getting really tired of her using the PG to complain. Like we get it already, you’re stressed about home ownership. We don’t need to hear you complain about it for the umpteenth time. Less complaining in the post game please! Really missing the fun stories.

  21. what Portland Oregon does, and increasingly the north Bay Area of CA also, to solve this unaffordable housing crisis, is to require every development and apt building that gets built to have both high rent apartments/houses and low rent/affordable homes in the same place. in this way, there can be true integration and not everyone has to be wealthy…i think it works quite well…

    LA, cool as it is, has yet to get to that point of caring and solving….

  22. Both Ana and Cenk make great points. The problem is that economic growth hasg been stagnant for the middle class and the poor while corporation stand developers who rely on foreign wealth and the upper… upper… UPPERclass are too busy catering to them. I just took a class on the skyline of Manhattan, and as a native New Yorker, I can say without a doubt that the reasonspeople come to New York City, and the character and charm of the city and its individual boroughs, is quickly evaporating. If Real Estate is all about supply and demand, teh demand is about to drop because no oen can afford to live or work here. In class and at work my peers came in from New Jersey, Long Island, or Upstate. They all were planning drastic moves. It’s a part of the influx of cities. People will flee, prices will lower… people will return… prices will rise… etc etc. Its’ natural but it sure is a pain in the ass when you’re trying to keep up, excel and achieve.

    The closest to a solution here would be to get money out of politics (it all goes to that) because a lot of these politicians changing zoning laws or making requirements for developers more lax (ie, how much low income or affordable housing they have to have in their buildings) are being paid a lot of money to make those decisions.

  23. Cenk’s pov doesn’t have to be categorized as Conservative. People from many political persuasions believe that Capitalism should have some role in human affairs. Supply and Demand are attributes of this construct, and they are working the way we should expect, when it comes to shelter in big cities.

    Ana can’t put her finger on it, but she’s circling around the suspicion, that this is fundamentally and seriously wrong. Capitalism manages scarcity, but unfortunately it has to continue to perpetuate scarcity, in order to justify its own existence.

    In a world of ownership, of property, it’s very difficult to see how we could possibly survive in a world based on collaboration and access. It’s too ingrained.

    This prohibitive expense of renting or buying your own place, has been bothering me for a while, and I think it started when Hannah discussed her search for a roommate. The idea that so many people cannot have a private place of their own, that their survival depends on someone else sharing the rent, isn’t how things are supposed to be. We’re too smart for this, it shouldn’t be happening.

    The necessity of requiring multiple people for shelter, is analogous to both spouses having to work outside of the household. Feminism properly leads to women having their own careers. But it should also have led to men having the choice of staying home to raise their children.

    It wasn’t always this way, but this is what the system breeds.

    I’m sorry, Ana, and to anyone else who realizes how insane this is, but sees no end in sight.

      1. Yes, it was a good PG. Cenk can be engaging at times, but there’s nothing like having Ana on the panel.

  24. I agree with the comment above about being disappointed in stories. Same here, most often from Ana, or maybe it’s just her reactions to stories. We hear about what she “likes” or doesn’t “like,” but not a lot of facts that go beyond what other reporting is already saying (John brought great facts to the climate change piece yesterday, for example). I know that Ana gets impatient with Cenk interrupting, but it’s his show, and he interrupts everyone. She takes things so personally, it seems. Instead of losing her cool, she ought to just debate him (like, with facts, not just anecdotes or inclinations). That’s why the “buffoon” comment was not just out of line but moot; how she feels about him doesn’t matter if he’s got the better argument (I’m not saying he did), and Cenk kept trying to keep the conversation about the arguments being presented, but Ana was turning it into an argument (i.e., a fight). Too bad. Anyway, it reminded me of someone else who noted in another comment thread on a previous Post Game, I think, that there seems to be some beef between Cenk and Ana lately. I dunno what’s afoot, but I’m getting to where I dread seeing Ana on the shows and hope for John or Michael or (especially) Ben.

    1. Isn’t that just Ana’s M.O.? If someone disagrees with her, she takes it personally and goes on the attack rather than rationally defend her position?

    2. I feel like it has to do with the fact that Ana is has continuously complained about her job on air. Why would Cenk want to listen to that? Compared to the average audience members she is doing pretty good for herself, so why would we want to listen to her complain?

  25. I agree with you Cenk except about Istanbul situation. that being said; we dont live in Turkiye soo can’t make a proper comment about that but I trust capitalism over Communistic policies from the Majority here.

  26. I like Cenk. Seems like a good guy. But I have some suggestions, if anyone reads this.

    1) Cenk, be mindful of how much you interrupt Ana. It was particularly problematic on yesterday’s show. And, no, I’m not some social justice warrior who thinks men need to shut up. However, I do think constant interrupting is rude.

    2) Stop dismissing Ana’s concerns about affordable housing. You can’t keep courting Millennials and GenXers, who’ve been dealing with urban affordability issues for decades, and then fall back on ye olde market forces argument. I get it that you “got yours” a while back (seems like you live in a nice home, by the way) but don’t begrudge a younger person’s dream of home ownership, wealth creation, and financial stability. Honestly, I was surprised by this postgame and the conversation that ensued.

    1. Yeah Cenk has a massive capitalist blindspot. He still believes that markets are infallible or at least “the most efficient system possible.” He’s going to be sorely mistaken when the housing sector collapses again like it did in 2007-08.

      1. Both of you are super correct. The capitalism comes off as a total blind spot in regards to Cenk in terms of the basics of supply and demand; additionally, we as a society have been moving more in favor of a mix of both collectivism and capitalism in the way taxes work so why not this? I live in a rent controlled spot in West LA, it’s not cheap but not too steep either and I think my fellow tenets bring a level of ease and familiarity to our building manager/owner and it keeps everything very friendly. No offense to Cenk or those who think differently, just my experience living with this topic in play in Wild West LA.

      2. Cenk has always argued for regulated capitalism. Plus, everyone should remember that his dad is in the real estate market and he probably knows a little bit about it.

  27. you have to pass laws that force developers to include affordable housing in areas were ppl need it otherwise gentrification happens , but Cenk clearly has the tooth and nail capitalist approach to real-estate.

    1. yes, josh4socialism, agreed, that works well–to have at least a portion of every development be affordable..

  28. I’ve been super disappointed with TYT lately on story selections, ways stories get covered, lack of diversity of views on panels, etc. I used to learn a lot from watching TYT. Now I learn more from other independent media. I’ve been a fan since 2008 but man I’m considering not renewing my membership

    1. Yeah he’s got a tremendous capitalist blind-spot that will become apparent when what i think is unsustainable housing market collapses again and likely takes the financial system down with it…. again.

      1. I agree he has a blind spot. He likes to say that anchors/journalists dont go out or are not in touch with how the public feels and is doing. I feel like he is not aware of the majority of families living paycheck to paycheck due to their housing or how college graduates like myself still live at home because of developers/land lords. And I agree with you that another housing market collapse is going to happen.

  30. Cenk(“Progressive”) – “But if they just own the real estate and they arent doing anythyng wrong and they want to make more money …I’m on their side”

  31. CENK: “Im ok with corporations not increasing their employees wages because they are just making a business decision. Sad day for you and you should find another job that will pay you more” BASICALLY

    1. Why should an employer be forced to raise wages? How do you figure this would effect a small restaurant owner? democracy has to work for everyone not just the poor.

      1. I hope we can agree that an employer has to pay its workers a living wage…If we agree on that then what should we do when an employer is not paying its workers a living wage? As to how it would affect a small restaurant owner (not sure what you consider small) I would just ask you to find me a study showing any city or state that has increased wages having a bad impact on small restaurants. Democracy currently works for the oligarchs and it is time that we make it work for the many not the few.

  34. Right again Cenk, I’m 100% on Ana’s side and not just because she’s right but also because of the condescending and arrogant way you dismissed her position.
    You talk about corruption in politics, and business and how it distorts the marketplace in favour of the powerful and how unfairly it treats people without power to oppose the corruption. Then you use a shallow throw away line which infers it’s all above board because it’s just about an average Joe in the street wanting to sell his house to the highest bidder rather than actually engage with the issue on its merits. FYI, laundering money through real estate is a thing and it distorts markets just like all the corruption you usually justifiably rail against.
    Ana & the rest of us listen to you outraged & talking about something for 20 minutes when 5 or 10 minutes max would get the message across so please offer Ana the same respect and don’t be a hypocrite.
    Honestly the arrogant ‘wave of the hand’ type of dismissal of Ana was palpable. Ana has done her research and maybe you should to some before dismissing her position so rudely.
    And yes I do love you Cenk but you acted like a dick to Ana. She isn’t the one who needed to apologise to you for being a buffoon.

    1. You nailed it Sue,

      Conservative Cenk is going to be eating crow on this one in a few years, because Ana is spot on, something is going wrong. Leaving aside Cenk’s dismissive behavior, there is clearly some level of corruption in the housing market (seems eerily familiar to the early 2000s up to 2007). I see way too many “luxury apartments” and high end houses being built throughout the metro area that I live in and I almost never see any kind of affordable, low-rent or starter homes being built despite the massive demand for such properties. There is a failure in the market and if I had to guess it’s some kind of malfeasance as I can’t believe this is sustainable. I’m expecting another crash in the housing market similar to the one we had in 2007-08. People can’t afford the homes that are being built, wages haven’t kept up, but housing prices are skyrocketing again, it doesn’t make any economic sense.

      If it were up to me I’d start treating housing as an infrastructure concern and not an entirely a laissez-faire market that currently seems to be. I’d start having the government build public housing again, and instead maybe give the apartments away to anyone below a certain income threshold through a lottery system. Instead of it being publicly owned perhaps turn them into co-ops and make sure the residents pay association fees for upkeep without any rent. Instead of them being able to sell the unit on the private market it they’d have to sell it back to the government or co-op who could in turn give it away again to more needy families or individuals. Dramatically increasing supply of homes, could help drive down prices in the ballooning costs in the current housing market. It makes sense to me, which is probably why it won’t be done.

      1. Hi, thedirtyhippie,
        Similar is happening in Sydney Australia. Australia’s property market has recently been identified as a major destination for the laundering of overseas corrupt money .
        http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-13/should-australias-anti-money-laundering-laws-be-extended/8703354?pfmredir=sm
        I also know the US has stricter laws about money laundering but there are other types of corruption in the real estate industry not just money laundering.
        Also Profiteering by developers who have undue influence on policy makers, the unmitigated inflow of money from legitimate overseas buyers who leave properties empty. There’s an estimated 90,000 empty dwellings in Sydney and there is an estimated to be more cranes building high rise apartments & related infrastructure on the east coast of Australia (Pop 23 million) than in all the USA, but still there is a ‘shortage’ of dwellings that people can afford.

        http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-21/real-estate-warning-more-cranes-in-australia-than-us/7954108

        It’s not just about a simply formula of supply and demand Cenk. Just like with politicians and corporations, corruption (moral and legal) may just have more than a little influence on what’s wrong with housing affordability.
        And yes your sensible suggestion to help affordable housing probably won’t be adopted because of the vested interests that like it the way it is
        Cheers
        Sue

      2. You want to know why you only see luxury apartment buildings being built in most major US cities even though demand for affordable middle-class housing dramatically exceeds its supply? RENT CONTROL AND ZONING RESTRICTIONS. The higher-end complexes you’re seeing are most always considered to be in a different class of housing that goes beyond basic shelter/utilities (thus the “luxury” moniker) and as such the owners aren’t bound by the same price controls which would govern “regular” housing in the same area. That makes it infinitely less profitable to build regular housing and guarantees a supply shortage, essentially forcing prospective residents to either live far outside their city of choice or pay the necessarily extravagant cost of renting/buying a “luxury” home. While it is true that serious market failures occur in many improperly regulated sectors of the economy (see: finance ~2005-2008) this is the exact opposite: a government intervention into a marketplace exacerbating the very problem it sought to alleviate. Rent control never works for these exact reasons.

        As for seeing parallels to the 2007-08 housing crisis I think you are again mistaken, because the drivers behind the price increases are very different. Whereas I outlined above the big reasons for the present increases you continue seeing, the soaring prices we saw in the runup to 2008 were a result of the EXTREMELY lax lending standards set by banks for mortgages in an environment (prior to Dodd-Frank) where the original lender didn’t care about the borrower’s ability to pay it back at all, since they knew any default risk would be obscured by the MBS it would end up sold as part of immediately. When higher interest rates suddenly kicked in on these mortgages after a couple years, the many many borrowers who had been misled defaulted en masse which caused prices to tank. Our current issues regarding housing don’t really contain the same threat of price collapses, because their relationship with the exacerbation of income inequality allows the top 10% or so of earners the ability to afford to live in/own all of these (policy-generated) luxury residences while the rest of us are just priced out of the market for them and as such unable to cause anything like the massive fallout of 2007-08’s default wave. Obviously being priced out of the market is a major problem though, hence the need to relax the rent control and zoning restrictions of many major cities bigly.

        1. Bob625 you make some good points, but I’m speaking of my metro area around Minneapolis. We don’t have any form of rent control so your theory goes pretty sideways pretty quick. The real problem is supply of available land in a developed city is scarce, therefore it costs a premium to buy and redevelop land. The only way to make a return on investment is to make units that are of high rents to recoup the initial cost. It’s another example of a market failure IMO.

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