MJones, what you post is correct. The model is based on withholding services.
The answer to every question begins as: Kaiser says……..
Deb-n-NCAL you suggest just change the primary care physician. I did change primary care at least 6 times within the 6 years I was with them. At $900 a month premium, Dr visits at $150, and every single service cheaper outside of their system (certain blood test for example outside of Kaiser $65, in Kaiser $250) and prescriptions cheaper (specific Thyroid Meds for example $10 outside of the Kaiser, inside $30) I only stayed because I needed access to a Rheumatologist. Not that the Rheumatologist was any good, no he sucked like dried up mealy rotten potatoes.
Ran out of money in 2013, and quit Kaiser. I still have no access to a Rheumatologist, but my overall care isbetter at the clinic.
In my County not a single Rheumatologist will see you without insurance. Now I have do have insurance, but none of them take the crap insurance that I have. But I did know that going in, I can either pay for crap that no one will take, or pay a penalty that may be higher.
I’m a teacher, I know about the health care models in Europe and this guy is simply lying. He is trying to infiltrate the progressive movement and make us believe that Obama care is good to save the insurance companies. I wish more people from other European countries with national health care would weigh in on this to expose his lies. Cenk, I wish you would have done your own research prior to this interview, so you could have called him on his lies. Please make this right. Send Jordan to Europe to report on what other counties have or something. Because this is really going to set the movement back if people who don’t know any better believe this. And why have you not spoken out, and done more research after reading the post from those who actually live in some of the countries he lied about?
Also, I have had Kaiser for over 30 years, and it sucks. Their whole model is based on giving you as little care as possible. this has been true from the beginning. Nixon even comments about it on tape. The system is not as organized as he states either. I was diagnosed with CRPS, I got I different info from different doctors, so I had to do my own research and found that Kaiser “specialists” in the same field working in my area of CA never even heard of the types of treatment Kaiser was using in different areas of CA. As far as the latest treatment methods, Kaiser is way behind. The “specialists” don’t care about you because your not really their patient your just another client in the system, they don’t do anything to really try and find out what is wrong with you. They do the least possible testing they can, and if nothing shows up, they just shrug and send you home knowing they won’t have to deal with you again. I have had to pay out of pocket to go outside the system several times to get correctly diagnosed and treated. You can’t really get a second opinion at Kaiser because they all stick together. (afraid of law suites I suspect) In addition, I have had two botched surgeries and had horrifying experiences with sadistic nurses while being hospitalized. I could go on and on.
But I am pleading with you Cenk don’t let this misinformation about other health care systems stay out here without a rebuttal.
One more thing, “OF COURSE” you need to talk, read, and play with babies, and I would add, always encourage them to verbalized what they want rather than point, never speak baby talk to them, but rather use the highest level vocabulary you can when speaking to them. The minute they begin to speak they should be learning to read and do simple math with manipulatives. ( counting, anding, subtracting) DO NOT rely on schools to teach your kids, schools are far too slow. A good parent teaches from birth and never stops; every moment is a teachable one.
Everything discussed about a child’s brain development was fascinating! Thank you for sharing the insights of what such research is revealing. The bottom line is that this country really needs to mandate paid family leave when a child is born so that the parents can provide the crucial interactions necessary to forge positive neural connections in that infant’s brain. Forcing mothers and fathers to return to work after only a few days is nothing less than child neglect, setting that child up for much greater risks later in life —to the detriment of the entire society. As with healthcare, again the European model puts this country to shame. For example, Sweden provides paid family leave when a child is born or adopted for 480 days! https://sweden.se/society/10-things-that-make-sweden-family-friendly/ No wonder Swedes are a happier people.
As a Swede I have never had to choose a health plan or anything similiar.
Healthcare is complicated if you have not experience the system yourself.
And he must be very confused with our welfare system in the Scandinavian countries and might include Elderly care with health care.
Health care is provided by my county as required by Swedish national laws.
(Elderly care is provided by municipalities btw)
It is paid by taxes collected by our 21 counties and partly by patient fees.
And there is a max ceiling for patient fees of 120 dollar per 12 month period.
Also there is a discount system for presciption drugs/medicine.
So if you pay 249,99 dollar you get medicine worth ~620 dollar and after that its free.
So the max cost is 250 dollar for all prescription drugs you buy during a 12 month period.
This is of course applied on a national level, so if you have paid 120/250 dollar, its free in all other counties also.
I greatly admire the Swedish healthcare system, and wish this country would emulate it. The sooner the better! I get the impression, however, that it is a bit more complicated than never having to “choose a healthplan.” As you say, the care one receives depends upon where that person lives in Sweden, since county councils and municipalities oversee those services: https://sweden.se/society/health-care-in-sweden/ I take it, therefore, that moving from one county or city to another might involve slight differences in the “healthcare plan”…? Still, it sounds great to me, and much better than the system in this country, in which greedy insurance and pharmaceutical companies seek to PROFIT off of people’s misfortune.
Since I have no actually experience what is included in a ”health care plan” and how much a patient can influence the care they are provided I dont know how to respond directly to your comment. I dont know how these plans are/could be different or what it means in patient influence and rights.
________________________________________________________________
You are correct that it is more complicated than what I wrote =)
Tend to be that when talking about something that is 11% of a nations GDP.
We have 21 counties organize health care for 10 million people in a country with an area bigger than California.
All this affect, for different reasons, the quality of care, if your home county can offer a certain treatment and how fast they can provide it. If they cant provide it themselves, they send you to another county that they cooperate with or a private provider to get the treatment, which your county then pay for.
Or are you referring to if the patient by itself can decide exactly which treatment he or she should be given? We have laws for patient influence and be part of the decision process. People can also appeal a decision if they are not satisfied with the treatment that was offered, BUT in the end, treatment is of course decided by people with medical expertize and not the average Svensson.
But wont any system have a similar thing. That depending on the doctor or medical expert you see, they might have their own preferences which influence the treatment you will finally get offered?
Maybe if I understood what a healthcare plan was and what it included.
What I do today. I call our national healthcare counseling number 1177.se or my local healthcare provider, explain my problem and they tell me to come in, send me to an emergency care, set up an appointment or direct my phone call to the specialist I should be in contact with which then do a similiar thing. Thats how i plan my healthcare =P
George and Cenk agree that we must expand the definition of “us”. I looked at a Native American woodland painting with all its connections (using literal fluid lines) connecting humans to other humans and animals and plants. Talk about expanding the definition of “us”. And they were once called savage. Their spirituality is one of few where science is actually confirming their beliefs millennia later with the DNA connections that have been found to be shared between humans, animals and even plants. The native mind must be thinking, why did it take you so long???
Last time I went to Kaiser, they said I had strep, tested me, said I didn’t have strep, made me wait almost two days to come back, then when I came back they told me to come back, said I had strep, then gave me meds.
The time before, they stitched me up, gave me a topical antibiotic, told me to wait a week, told me I was allergic to the antibiotic, put me on something else for another week, yelled at me for waiting for 2 weeks to get stitches removed, ripped them out in the nurses station, mocked me for showing pain and then sent me home.
Time before that I went in with swimmers shoulder from work and was told not to worry about it and to take Ibuprofen (shockingly, the most common OTC pain pill is what I was already taken) and had to beg for Naproxen.
Anyone that watched this ever had Kaiser? Because no one I know who has it likes it.
I’ve had Kaiser for decades and most of the care has been excellent. There were two occasions when I thought the treatment was sub-par, and on both occasions, I simply changed doctors (there is no law that says you must stay with the same primary). Over the course of 20+ years I have encountered the rare occasional a-hole there (because, you know…humanity), but for the most part, the staff at Kaiser are excellent.
Most people I know who have Kaiser swear by it and wouldn’t change. I had one friend who did not like her primary there, so she quit. She disregarded my advice “just change your primary.” A year later, I ran into her at a store and asked wassup, and she said she was on her way to Kaiser. I said “I thought you quit” and she said she did, but “Everyone else is worse.”
Might not be the best advertising slogan, but… true that. To the best of my knowledge and experience, I am not aware of a better health maintenance organization here in the USA.
The interviews usually sound kinda boring by the titles, but when you actually listen to them they are awesome. This one was particularly good. I went to go find his books but most of them are paperback only. Tell him to publish on kindle more!
I third that. And if TYT decides to make the interview public, I’d suggest that it be extracted and posted under different topics. For example: healthcare as one segment; child development as another. People need to know these things!
Thanks. I really enjoyed that interview, even though I expected to hate George since he had been a Healthplan CEO. I found it enlightening and encouraging that he could talk about something other than money.
It strikes me as really strange that he said that the danish model of health care doesn’t exist in Europe. Last time I checked, I don’t have to buy a health care plan, my health care is paid for by the government, through taxes, and so is the health care of every other Dane.
Comments
MJones, what you post is correct. The model is based on withholding services.
The answer to every question begins as: Kaiser says……..
Deb-n-NCAL you suggest just change the primary care physician. I did change primary care at least 6 times within the 6 years I was with them. At $900 a month premium, Dr visits at $150, and every single service cheaper outside of their system (certain blood test for example outside of Kaiser $65, in Kaiser $250) and prescriptions cheaper (specific Thyroid Meds for example $10 outside of the Kaiser, inside $30) I only stayed because I needed access to a Rheumatologist. Not that the Rheumatologist was any good, no he sucked like dried up mealy rotten potatoes.
Ran out of money in 2013, and quit Kaiser. I still have no access to a Rheumatologist, but my overall care isbetter at the clinic.
In my County not a single Rheumatologist will see you without insurance. Now I have do have insurance, but none of them take the crap insurance that I have. But I did know that going in, I can either pay for crap that no one will take, or pay a penalty that may be higher.
I’m a teacher, I know about the health care models in Europe and this guy is simply lying. He is trying to infiltrate the progressive movement and make us believe that Obama care is good to save the insurance companies. I wish more people from other European countries with national health care would weigh in on this to expose his lies. Cenk, I wish you would have done your own research prior to this interview, so you could have called him on his lies. Please make this right. Send Jordan to Europe to report on what other counties have or something. Because this is really going to set the movement back if people who don’t know any better believe this. And why have you not spoken out, and done more research after reading the post from those who actually live in some of the countries he lied about?
Also, I have had Kaiser for over 30 years, and it sucks. Their whole model is based on giving you as little care as possible. this has been true from the beginning. Nixon even comments about it on tape. The system is not as organized as he states either. I was diagnosed with CRPS, I got I different info from different doctors, so I had to do my own research and found that Kaiser “specialists” in the same field working in my area of CA never even heard of the types of treatment Kaiser was using in different areas of CA. As far as the latest treatment methods, Kaiser is way behind. The “specialists” don’t care about you because your not really their patient your just another client in the system, they don’t do anything to really try and find out what is wrong with you. They do the least possible testing they can, and if nothing shows up, they just shrug and send you home knowing they won’t have to deal with you again. I have had to pay out of pocket to go outside the system several times to get correctly diagnosed and treated. You can’t really get a second opinion at Kaiser because they all stick together. (afraid of law suites I suspect) In addition, I have had two botched surgeries and had horrifying experiences with sadistic nurses while being hospitalized. I could go on and on.
But I am pleading with you Cenk don’t let this misinformation about other health care systems stay out here without a rebuttal.
One more thing, “OF COURSE” you need to talk, read, and play with babies, and I would add, always encourage them to verbalized what they want rather than point, never speak baby talk to them, but rather use the highest level vocabulary you can when speaking to them. The minute they begin to speak they should be learning to read and do simple math with manipulatives. ( counting, anding, subtracting) DO NOT rely on schools to teach your kids, schools are far too slow. A good parent teaches from birth and never stops; every moment is a teachable one.
Everything discussed about a child’s brain development was fascinating! Thank you for sharing the insights of what such research is revealing. The bottom line is that this country really needs to mandate paid family leave when a child is born so that the parents can provide the crucial interactions necessary to forge positive neural connections in that infant’s brain. Forcing mothers and fathers to return to work after only a few days is nothing less than child neglect, setting that child up for much greater risks later in life —to the detriment of the entire society. As with healthcare, again the European model puts this country to shame. For example, Sweden provides paid family leave when a child is born or adopted for 480 days! https://sweden.se/society/10-things-that-make-sweden-family-friendly/ No wonder Swedes are a happier people.
As a Swede I have never had to choose a health plan or anything similiar.
Healthcare is complicated if you have not experience the system yourself.
And he must be very confused with our welfare system in the Scandinavian countries and might include Elderly care with health care.
Health care is provided by my county as required by Swedish national laws.
(Elderly care is provided by municipalities btw)
It is paid by taxes collected by our 21 counties and partly by patient fees.
And there is a max ceiling for patient fees of 120 dollar per 12 month period.
Also there is a discount system for presciption drugs/medicine.
So if you pay 249,99 dollar you get medicine worth ~620 dollar and after that its free.
So the max cost is 250 dollar for all prescription drugs you buy during a 12 month period.
This is of course applied on a national level, so if you have paid 120/250 dollar, its free in all other counties also.
I greatly admire the Swedish healthcare system, and wish this country would emulate it. The sooner the better! I get the impression, however, that it is a bit more complicated than never having to “choose a healthplan.” As you say, the care one receives depends upon where that person lives in Sweden, since county councils and municipalities oversee those services: https://sweden.se/society/health-care-in-sweden/ I take it, therefore, that moving from one county or city to another might involve slight differences in the “healthcare plan”…? Still, it sounds great to me, and much better than the system in this country, in which greedy insurance and pharmaceutical companies seek to PROFIT off of people’s misfortune.
Since I have no actually experience what is included in a ”health care plan” and how much a patient can influence the care they are provided I dont know how to respond directly to your comment. I dont know how these plans are/could be different or what it means in patient influence and rights.
________________________________________________________________
You are correct that it is more complicated than what I wrote =)
Tend to be that when talking about something that is 11% of a nations GDP.
We have 21 counties organize health care for 10 million people in a country with an area bigger than California.
All this affect, for different reasons, the quality of care, if your home county can offer a certain treatment and how fast they can provide it. If they cant provide it themselves, they send you to another county that they cooperate with or a private provider to get the treatment, which your county then pay for.
Or are you referring to if the patient by itself can decide exactly which treatment he or she should be given? We have laws for patient influence and be part of the decision process. People can also appeal a decision if they are not satisfied with the treatment that was offered, BUT in the end, treatment is of course decided by people with medical expertize and not the average Svensson.
But wont any system have a similar thing. That depending on the doctor or medical expert you see, they might have their own preferences which influence the treatment you will finally get offered?
Maybe if I understood what a healthcare plan was and what it included.
What I do today. I call our national healthcare counseling number 1177.se or my local healthcare provider, explain my problem and they tell me to come in, send me to an emergency care, set up an appointment or direct my phone call to the specialist I should be in contact with which then do a similiar thing. Thats how i plan my healthcare =P
George and Cenk agree that we must expand the definition of “us”. I looked at a Native American woodland painting with all its connections (using literal fluid lines) connecting humans to other humans and animals and plants. Talk about expanding the definition of “us”. And they were once called savage. Their spirituality is one of few where science is actually confirming their beliefs millennia later with the DNA connections that have been found to be shared between humans, animals and even plants. The native mind must be thinking, why did it take you so long???
This MF needs to be listened to. He has some really nice insights which seem to be based on knowledge of different systems.
He seems duplicitous. He claims that the Scandinavian model of health care doesn’t exist, even though I live with it, happily.
Last time I went to Kaiser, they said I had strep, tested me, said I didn’t have strep, made me wait almost two days to come back, then when I came back they told me to come back, said I had strep, then gave me meds.
The time before, they stitched me up, gave me a topical antibiotic, told me to wait a week, told me I was allergic to the antibiotic, put me on something else for another week, yelled at me for waiting for 2 weeks to get stitches removed, ripped them out in the nurses station, mocked me for showing pain and then sent me home.
Time before that I went in with swimmers shoulder from work and was told not to worry about it and to take Ibuprofen (shockingly, the most common OTC pain pill is what I was already taken) and had to beg for Naproxen.
Anyone that watched this ever had Kaiser? Because no one I know who has it likes it.
I’ve had Kaiser for decades and most of the care has been excellent. There were two occasions when I thought the treatment was sub-par, and on both occasions, I simply changed doctors (there is no law that says you must stay with the same primary). Over the course of 20+ years I have encountered the rare occasional a-hole there (because, you know…humanity), but for the most part, the staff at Kaiser are excellent.
Most people I know who have Kaiser swear by it and wouldn’t change. I had one friend who did not like her primary there, so she quit. She disregarded my advice “just change your primary.” A year later, I ran into her at a store and asked wassup, and she said she was on her way to Kaiser. I said “I thought you quit” and she said she did, but “Everyone else is worse.”
Might not be the best advertising slogan, but… true that. To the best of my knowledge and experience, I am not aware of a better health maintenance organization here in the USA.
One of my favorite interviews. Although now I’m slightly concerned for my two 4 year olds! Yikes.
The interviews usually sound kinda boring by the titles, but when you actually listen to them they are awesome. This one was particularly good. I went to go find his books but most of them are paperback only. Tell him to publish on kindle more!
That was a GREAT! Interview.. no wonder why Kaiser donated to Bernie
I have a 2-year-old and a 3-year-old. I’m totally panicking now!
Is there a way that this interview could be shared on Youtube? it is really too good to be limited to member’s only.
I second that. Should be able to share outside the TYT community. WAY too important a topic.
I third that. And if TYT decides to make the interview public, I’d suggest that it be extracted and posted under different topics. For example: healthcare as one segment; child development as another. People need to know these things!
Thanks. I really enjoyed that interview, even though I expected to hate George since he had been a Healthplan CEO. I found it enlightening and encouraging that he could talk about something other than money.
It strikes me as really strange that he said that the danish model of health care doesn’t exist in Europe. Last time I checked, I don’t have to buy a health care plan, my health care is paid for by the government, through taxes, and so is the health care of every other Dane.
First 100 days are so important to a human being’s development, and yet how cruelly short is the federal minimum maternity/paternity leave?
Super interesting. I loved his thoughts on us and them.
Thanks for freaking me out about my kid. :/