TYT Hour 1 March 16, 2017

In The Young Turks Hour 1 - On Demand by Gigi Manukyan65 Comments

Trump’s budget cuts. Wolf Pac New Mexico. Trump responds to travel ban block. US army joins Russian army in Syria.

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  2. Cenk is being very dishonest about the Runaway Convention idea. It doesn’t originate with the John Birch society, and it’s not only feared by elites and loved by the non-elite. The fear goes back to 1787 when the only Article V convention to ever occur was a runaway convention that completely changed the original charter, all of the rules for amending the charter and completely rewrote the document. And as far as friends and enemies of the idea, Antonin Scalia was a fan of the Article V convention before he died, and the uber corporate cabal, ALEC is a huge funder of the idea. And who has questions about it? lots of people, not just elites, but constitutional law professors all over the country. They aren’t dead set against it, but the problem is that Article V isn’t very specific about how to run one, just how to qualify to have one. Once it’s called, you can ratify anything you want, if you can ratify that thing you want. It doesn’t have to not conflict with previous amendments either. For example, if you love your guns, you can cancel out the 2nd amendment. You like religious freedom? You don’t think enough scared bigots can’t ratify an anti-muslim amendment? What do you think ALEC wants to do with it? It’s certainly not get money out of politics.

    After all that, I’m still for it, because the system is currently broken, and what else are we going to do? Congress isn’t going to fix themselves. The point is that there are real concerns and we should look at them instead of simply lying and pretending they’re not there.

    1. Is it possible then to have a back-up strategy?
      Or a plan to combat the ALEC runaway train?

      Or is that not possible. Could our side have a “Break Glass” plan?
      And if so, what would that look like or what would it entail?

    3. Thanks. I’ve often wondered, thought I just wasn’t living up to my handle…
      Vaguely rememberSam Seder saying he’d get Cenk on to debate it? I imagine it never happened.

    4. Just to note, the Convention you speak of was not an Article V convention. Article V didn’t exist yet.

  3. I don’t understand why people don’t understand and instead push back against Michael’s point of how dangerous the current hysteria towards Russia is. Our nation’s aggression (the USA) has been off the charts for my entire lifetime. Russia is a nuclear power, a nuclear power with thousands of nuclear weapons, who has decided to keep the US in check to some extent in foreign affairs because the US has gotten way too “close to home.” No one is saying that Russia does not have problems and does not have an authoritarian government. No one is saying that Putin is a figure not worthy of scrutiny. No one is saying Putin is an innocent player in the game of global politics. No one is saying that there is not potential for financially based conflicts of interests between Trump, members of his cabinet, and the Russian Oligarchs. But it is very important to keep the criticism of Putin and the Russia government very precise, shying away from grand, demonizing, blanket characterizations, with an understanding of Russian history, especially when addressing NATO expansion, the Ukraine situation, and the Syrian situation. It is also very important to be incredibly skeptical of CIA claims regarding the election and the source of election-time Wikileaks publications and keep in perspective whatever small influence RT might have had on the election. Call me crazy, but the large majority of RT America shows and show hosts, at least the ones I’ve seen, are very pro-America, they just do good and thorough criticism of the US, which is desperately needed in our media discourse. Characterizing people like Thom Hartmann, Lee Camp, Ed Schultz, Larry King, and Chris Hedges as propaganda tools for Russia would be ridiculous. They do good work in their own respects. That’s not to say that the overall RT network is not biased towards Russian government interests…of course it is. But it is still a valuable source of news when taken as one part of a large spectrum of international news sources. Bottom line is that we need to be able to work with the governments of Russia, China, and all the nations of the world to the greatest capacity possible so as to avoid nuclear war and move towards more harmonious relationships while respecting each others’ sovereignty. Our government and no other nation’s national governments are “the good guys.” Every one of them has corruption and abuses power. The US government has no legitimate moral authority over another. I wish we Americans would stop pretending that there is. At least that’s my take on all this right now.

    1. From what I understand is that Russian Television was talking about the wikileaks hacks hours before the wikileaks hacks were released and without saying that they got advanced leaks of the leaks. So it seemed like they were colluding with wikileaks. That’s why they say that RT is a mouthpiece for Putin.

      however to me the big issue is that if Trump is going to be impeached, Russian connection is our best shot as we can definitely tie Mike Pence into things in a way to boot him out. We still have to worry about Paul Ryan, but we could effectively impact the right wing’s influence on the government. There’s a slight chance that maybe Paul Ryan has some way that he could get blocked from being the President too, but we can’t take 4 years of Trump or Pence. You get rid of those 2 you get rid of any talk of “mandate” you get rid of any talk about “We won the election” and you have a wave of Democrats, and maybe the bleeding stops, maybe science sector of America doesn’t just rot away and require stem cells to regrow in a climate where stem cells is once again banned.

        1. When you link me to a website that in the “about” page has this to say…

          “SOTT.net is a research project of the non-profit Quantum Future Group (QFG). The project includes collecting, arranging, and analyzing news items that seem to best reflect the dominant ‘energies’ on the planet.”

          You really can’t blame me for not taking it at face value I mean there’s lots of red flags there… When ever someone goes up against Putin, they kinda end up on the run, or dead… One of the politicians that voted against Putin twice had his assets frozen, trumped up charges filed against him, and was abdicated from his elected responsibilities. This man’s name is Ilya Ponomarev.

          You’re going to tell me that it’s entirely unlikely for RT to be working with Putin, who basically puts anyone who disagrees too much on the chopping block? Our government is no where NEAR as dictatorial as Putin’s Russia is, and the Establishment Media almost never fights back against politicians. You’re telling me that what I said was unreasonable? Maybe they were just already on wikileaks doing a deep dive and just happened to uncover it. Maybe they work in concert with each other. Either way, my point still stands. The interference in the elections isn’t just about things like RT, there’s even reports now a days about fake members joining Bernie groups all of a sudden and posting nothing but anti-Hillary news stories, and all the accounts come from a very specific source and it seems like it was a disinformation campaign.

          So whether or not RT is closer to how I imagine them or how you imagine them… There was enough of an impact of disinformation by Russia to seriously consider taking down Putin after we get rid of Trump and Mike Pence who only owe their victory due to something like 35k-100k votes. All Russia would need to do is get 50k people who were barely going to vote for Hillary (in the right areas) to go “You know what? Fuck her I’ll take a clown” and we know that 17% of Trump supporters in exit polls didn’t believe he was fit to be president. It’s not a huge jump to say that Russia could have impacted 50-100k people to just vote “burn it down” with their attempts at infiltrating the discourse on social media.

          I didn’t know that Putin killed so many people on a regular basis, and that he takes out personal vendettas against small opposition. We need to get rid of Putin now, while he still has some wits about him, before he gets senile or Alzheimer and REALLY does some damage. What’s to stop him from being in there so long that eventually he goes crazy and launches some nukes?

  4. Loved the debate, this was a really great panel. On the Russia story I’m in agreement with Cenk and Nomiki, and I genuinely don’t understand why Michael thinks the numerous connections between Trump and Russia is just “hysteria.” When he asked Nomiki if she’d still be concerned if it was Israel instead of Russia I literally yelled at my screen “Of course!” We all accept the lengths politicians are willingly to go to serve the financial interests of corporations, why the incredulity to the financial interests of nations, or at least foreign oligarchs?

    Also, I don’t buy Michael’s argument that scrutiny or concern over Trump’s ties to Russia could provoke him to take dangerously harsh measures against Russia. He doesn’t care what Democrats or liberals think and that wouldn’t appease us anyway. Jordan’s statement that he’s more concerned with the poverty and suffering across the country is a more compelling point, ultimately I’m less concerned with Russia getting its 500 billion deal than stopping the Republicans from destroying this country.

  6. The issue with Trump’s Russian ties is about corruption. Trump by not releasing his tax returns is most likely hiding business relationships that he has with Putin, the Russian government, and/or Russian oligarchs. Michael is wrong in saying that those ties are out in the open Trump now denies any involvement with anyone in Russia. Meanwhile, his foreign policy, it seems, is being conducted to benefit himself and his Russian business partners financially. This is what needs to be brought into the light and it is worthy of the attention it receives.

    I do agree with Michael in one respect. The use of the term “the Russians” is not helpful. It’s a cold war holdover and just too general. It’s almost akin to referring to jihadis as “the Muslims.” However, it’s not equivalent to saying “the Americans” in reference to the Trump administration, because Russia is an autocratic state and the U.S. is not, at least not yet.

    1. I disagree on the use of the term “the Russians,” I think it’s mostly being used colloquially, not pejoratively, as it’s quite common to refer to states or governments by nationality. For instance we talk about “the British” or “the Chinese” when referring to their governments or state apparatus, such as their military or intelligence services. It’s shorthand. I think it’s kind of a semantic argument, or at least not a productive one. I don’t think anyone’s going to stop referring to the Russian government as “the Russians” and I don’t think the majority of those people mean to invoke any cold war feelings about the sinister Ruskies.

  7. Russian comments – in northern Virginia Beyer my Congressman did a survey and Russian concerns came in second – jobs was first. Also I personally have attended many local groups including indivisible, our revolution, spin-offs from the women’s march, etc and although concerns about Russia were raised, they were far down the list – so I have to respectfully disagree with your conclusion.

    1. Well you’re not getting any fucking jobs with Trump gutting everything, and since Mike Pence and Trump can both be ejected from office with an impeachment based on Russian involvement in the elections or even without the russian elections even just the stuff like Mike Pence lying about his knowledge of Michael Flynn working as a foreign agent, when it was impossible for him to not know about that due to multiple ways in which the transition team was informed about the ties, of which Mike Pence ran the transition team… I mean if you want to get real progress enacted the first thing we have to do the absolute first thing we have to do is get rid of the 2 people who are destroying jobs. 3200 jobs in the EPA was it? They are getting rid of all the funding on Climate Change they aren’t going to be hiring people to weatherize, they want to mine for more coal which is going to end up being Mountain Topping where we blow up the tops of mountains cause I can’t imagine we have mountains all over the country with vast reserves of coal with no environmental impact as far as obtaining…

      America is going to collapse if we don’t disrupt these nutjobs that only got into power due to quirks in the election such as Russian involvement, possible intimidation and illegal activity in Pennsylvania, a gutting of voting rights for minorities, as well as a high troll turnout (People who voted for a guy that they thought wasn’t fit to be President which was 18% of his voters)

  8. I find it hard to trust “sources in the intelligence community” when those same sources told us: they were/are not spying on US citizens, WMD’s in Iraq, they are only collecting metadata and they don’t keep it after analysis, etc. etc. etc….why do we believe anything they say without the presentation of tangible evidence…that isn’t presented by Colin Powell….

  9. I hate thinking like a conspiracy theorist, but it almost seems like they know there supporters are poor, and uneducated, and their trying to create the support they need by defunding the programs that give people the knowledge, and confidence to impact change.

  14. Great panel. Cenk you did a great job picking your reporters. Bring these guys back on more often [as long as it doesn’t interfere with their main job ofcourse]

  15. This was the best panel ever! When everyone gets so fired up that Jordan is the most quiet at the table, you know it’s pure gold.

  18. Liberals wanting to unilaterally disarm?
    You mean like Sam Seder on Majority Report?
    Did he change his mind on a Constitutional Convention?
    During the election he was against it.

    I haven’t listened to him since he started bashing Progressives, and was such a dick when he had Jimmy Dore on his show … did he change his mind?

    1. really? That’s funny. I went the complete other way.

      I stopped listening to Jimmy Dore’s show after being a huge fan, because he so embarrassed himself in that debate. And it was a debate, by the way. Nobody was being a dick. They were having a debate and Jimmy Dore lost spectacularly and looked really stupid. That’s not being a dick. That’s winning a debate. And Sam wasn’t rude. He just made better points that Jimmy couldn’t refute. It’s not his fault Jimmy was unprepared and ill informed and started yelling about it.

      Jimmy realized it the next day and asked Sam for another round, but on his show this time, so he could have more control of the situation, and it would be his audience. Sam Agreed, and they set a date, and then Jimmy chickened out. Sam’s offer is out there right now, but Jimmy won’t let him come on now. And they’ve bumped up against each other on Twitter since then a few times, and every time Jimmy’s called on his bullshit, he dodges behind “I”m just a comedian” as an excuse. It’s so sad to see one of your heroes revealed like this. It’s even sadder that so many people are fooled by Jimmy, because he says what people want to be true, and he’s a good comedian, so he knows how to sell the emotion of something, even if he doesn’t have an intelligent argument behind it, or the experience to understand any of the context. It’s all just pure emotion, and people eat that up. It’s good for morale, bad for strategy.

      Sam’s position on the Article V constitutional convention isn’t just a whim. He’s basing it on what many constitutional scholars have written about it. I’m still for it, but the articles Sam references on it are worth considering if we want to be honest and prepared for what may lie ahead. Cenk has even mentioned it in the past when talking about Wolf Pac. The fear is that there will be a runaway convention, because once you have the requisite number of states to call the convention, it doesn’t matter why you called it, what specific thing you want to change, once the convention is called, there are no rules or rulers. You’re not under the laws of Senate Parliamentary Procedures. You’re not constrained by electoral procedure. You now have a free an open forum to propose amendments. The fear is that just like our normal law-making process, big money will seize that opportunity to take over the convention and make some truly horrific amendments and use their money to get them ratified. That’s a legitimate fear. Cenk has also brought this up in the past in reference to the 17th amendment, which made it so senators had to be elected by the people instead of the state legislatures. They were very close to having an article V convention then, but in fear of a runaway convention, congress was able to pass the 17th amendment before the convention reached enough states. So, it’s a real concern that shouldn’t be dismissed, even though I still think we should be fighting for it.

      1. So if the fear is a runaway convention and it shouldn’t be risked, what’s next?

        Big Donors are just biding their time until there IS a convention. Then they propose an amendment that makes them the ultimate deciding factor in any legislation (kind of like what we have now, but written into the constitution ). They make promises to politicians ahead of time and that’s it … done.

        No more human rights, only corporate rights, and it’s official. No one even bothers to play lip-service to any group … conservative, liberal, religious, environmental … whatever.

        So, is there an alternative or are we fucked either way, so it doesn’t matter. Third party? Try to change the Democratic Party (don’t see that happening so far. DNC hasn’t change a thing). Riot in the streets and wait for militarized police to shut-it down, like at Standing Rock. Wait for the death of net neutrality so we can go back to HAM radios?

        Doesn’t seem to be an option.

  19. Hey Moron, people who NEED after school programs are POOR people , like coal miners and a mom in Detroit!

    That literally came out of my mouth as he said it.
    But, Morning Joke said nothing and His Hostage Gal-Pal just nodded her dopey bubble head.

    Amazing.

  22. The republicans crushed the 2010 election with a single message: Obama is the apologist socialist in chief and we need to stop him.

    From the last 230 years of the republic, the best way to win an election is to run against the president. People vote their feelings not for the programs.

    Plus why interfere when the republicans are already in self-destruct mode dissenting left and right?

  23. Everybody’s correct this was a great power panel, Michael has perfectly great intuition into the Democratic party’s feed towards Russian interference causing them to look like the alt left, Nomi is intelligent and beautiful which is scary and her interpretation as well as Cenks is also correct. The problem we have is there is no definitive answer yet which is causing the turmoil on Russia and the left’s point of view. Donald Trump is also causing all of us to run around in circles instead of motivating the left against his actions and executive orders which is the left’s problem & there needs to be a unified strategy towards liberal Progressive policies to achieve any progress

  24. Great show. Only issue is that I am now forced to realize that my money paid for this tool on the far left…

  25. Cenk, your wrong and Michael is right. Putin is not a single, solitary actor controlling the “Russian machine”. Khrushchev was not during the Cuban Missile Crisis, and I assume the Commies had more control over the Soviet state then than Putin has over the Russian Federation now.

    1. Khrushchev was a compromise candidate. Stalin on his death bed wanted a third, even larger, purge but he died before he got his wish. The real puppet masters, Brezhnev, Chernenko and others couldn’t come out before purging the Stalinist (chief among them Lavrenty Beria) and replacing them with harmless Stalin puppets like Khrushchev.

      As for Putin, Putin leads his own cabal. No one in Russia or Soviet history lasted this much time in the highest echelon of government than him with the notable exception of Brezhnev and like the aforementioned, those people are extremely loyal to him. He spent 20 years purging government from his opponents and replacing them with lackeys and diluting their powers and moving them around so that they don’t stay put in one place.

      The Russian establishment (and indeed the people) doesn’t like Putin’s foreign policy gambles (especially in the middle east and Central Asia) but they are powerless to stop him and he uses the boogyman of neo-Nazis and Russian nationalists to scare the establishment into submission.

  26. OMG I loved this panel so much!! Thank you for having everyone on there. THANK YOU for letting everyone speak about their thoughts. We need the debate. We need to hear all sides. Great power panel!

    1. Also, I agree with Michael and Jordan. Sorry Cenk and Nomi. I think it is hysteria. I think he has money ties and business ties but I don’t know if I’d go so far to say Russia was part of tanking the election. I would like to see more proof of that first.

      1. Fat&SassyMama, another way of looking at this is that the Russians interfered with our elections so that we elected a corporatist for president instead of electing a female corporatist for president. Perhaps, we can keep the hysteria under control and look at the tactics that were used, then use public service announcements on TV and YouTube to educate the voter so they will become less susceptible to them. Oh, I forgot, the bane of corporatists candidates is an educated voter. Never mind.

    1. She has a way of compressing her voice when she tries to make a point which is grating on the ears, yes. Also, she seems to like filibustering a bit too much.

      1. totally. interupts and too self satisfied with her comments.makes me appreciate ana even more!
        but, honestly, nomi not ready for primetime

  29. Great show tonight, TYT! Loved both hours. Jordan, Nomiki, and Michael did an amazing job. This episode is probably in my top 4 of all time. Thanks again for the great content. Keep up the great work.

  30. I totally disagree with Michael, but I do like how he feels comfortable enough to call the Russia situation “deranged hysteria”. I love how TYT is not an echo-chamber and all of the reporters can have their own opinions.

  31. This is probably the best hour and a half of mental masturbation I’ve ever spent. And THAT’S why I finally just made my donation.

    I love you guys. You keep me thinking. ;-)

    DoberMom

  32. This is seriously my favorite power panel ever. Fucking amazing dynamic at play here. Cenk is the context moderator, and Jordan/Nomi/Mike are the subject matter experts from the field with patently different personalities. Every single news show should always be this.

  33. Dude on the left of the panel is so 100% on point on Russia. It’s just propaganda to excuse Hillary Clinton’s abysmal performance. The hysteria is so bad that the next time Democrats are in power, war with Russia is likely, poor relations are absolutely guaranteed. And that is not a good thing. If we can be friends with Israel and Saudi Arabia, we can be friends with Russia.

    1. I am a bit sad that Nomiki also is on the Russia hysteria train with Cenk, Ana and John. I would have thought that a real investigative reporter would be able to see through the BS. Apparently not all of them.

      1. Hysteria train? I don’t understand how you can be so dismissive towards the Trump-Russia connections and the people concerned about them. Like, when Nomiki talks about all the Trump cabinet members with financial connections to Russia, when she points to Flynn, or when Cenk talks about Rex Tillerson and the Exxon Mobile deal, and everything else, do you honestly think they’re all innocent coincidences? I understand skepticism, but I just don’t understand the incredulity.

    2. Oh, shut the front door. Concern about Trump’s connections with Russia is hysteria, but having Democrats in power will lead to war with Russia? How is that not hysteria?

      And what is the inference there, that we should ignore all the connections between Trump, his cabinet, and Russia, which having largely nothing to do with the DNC hack or Clinton, in order to avoid bad relations with Russia? I would like better relations with Russia, but not if it means turning a blind eye to them potentially subverting the highest levels of our government, that would also not be a good thing.

      We do not need “friends” like Israel and Saudi Arabia, and our relationship with those countries should not be model for a relationship with others.

  34. This budget is exacting the same as what Tillerson as CEO of Exxon did to the country of Chad. When oil was discovered the US State Dept worked out a great program where some of the oil profits went to the people for schools, hospitals, etc. Tillerson came in and promised the dictator he’d pay him directly so he could do anything he wanted to with the money. What has the dictator done? Spent all his oil money on buying weapons! The Chad people are some of the poorest in the world.

    This is a budget of a bully country. This is a budget of a country who’s only exports are oil and weapons.

    I would call the paper this budget is printed on “White Trash”…

    1. Wynsong, my guess is the Chad visit you mentioned was not discussed during Senate confirmation hearings. Your report speaks volumes about Tillerson’s character.

      Your export information is incorrect. This country also exports tons of entertainment, such as music, televisions shows and movies, so the word “only” is inaccurate.

      1. Thanks for the correction. The point is that the US is the largest exporter of arms in the world and the increase in our military budget goes right into the arms contractors pockets making them more competitive on the world market for arms.

        Mr. Toad’s budget is largely a tactic I suspect. By putting forth something so bad, he wants us to be happy when they “compromise” and make it “less” horrendous. The hollowing out of America’s soul.

        1. Winsong, one of the hardest things for non-professional writers is to find the words to express what one wants to say. At least, I find this statement applies to myself. Your statement, “The point is that the US is the largest exporter of arms in the world and the increase in our military budget goes right into the arms contractors pockets…”, adds a level of insidiousness that may not occur to most people. Once read, one might think there should be a truth in advertising law that might alter the Statue of Liberty to read, “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, while your tax dollars are spent to subsidize arms contractors that will manufacture and sell weapons to kill your relatives back in the old country.”

          1. Thank you, Studezilla. I enjoy the depth of your thinking. While writing that sentence I did think about that kind of implication although it was not my intent to make it go to that insidious level. My mind went to arms contractors being restricted in selling only to US allies. But then my mind went to how about all the US arms sold to “allies” in Syria that are now in the hands of ISIS. Regimes change hands. Winners get the spoils of the war. Our enemies of WWII for instance are now our closest allies. There is no guarantee that arms we export won’t be used against us and our relatives in other countries. It is a good reason to reduce the level of armed conflict in the world, to stop exporting weapons, to stop nuclear proliferation. It is also why I am for global trade agreements since that also reduces the probability of war. While I’m not a professional writer, I do feel the imperative to speak up especially when the current administration is so reckless and impetuous and has no vision of the long term implications other than whether it will help the business bottom line. We are a global community whether we like it or not. We need to work together for the global good because the experiment called civilization is rapidly heading toward fail.

  35. OMG. I love TYT. I really like hearing the viewpoints of the TYT Reporting Team. They are truly amazing – great job on picking fantastic reporters, Cenk! Awesome job to us, TYT Army, for helping to fund this news-giving machine!

    Keep it up, everyone!

    1. Might be time for TYT to do another staff photo, and then send a framed copy emblassoned with the “we are the ones who knock” tag-line…

      Would then be interesting in 10,20,30 years time to look back at extremely deep depth of talent and where they all wound up – many would still be relatively young with decades to keep pushing progressive policy.

      Emma V would be Bernie Sanders age in 2068 campaign – but I don’t think they’ll be a long wait for a TYT alumni to filter thru to the top….

    1. mdechellis, interesting comment. I used to think of anarchists/terrorists as the people who blow things up. Now, your comment appears to identify further categorization: 1.) anarchists/terrorists who blow things up for ideological reasons and 2.) those who blow things up for profit!

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