TYT Old School February 22, 2017

In Membership, TYT Old School - On Demand by Gigi Manukyan52 Comments

Ben and Steve talk working hard, ivy league education, Steve being friend-zoned, perks of the Trump presidency, Clinton’s campaign team, and Steve’s dreams for TYT.

0 seconds of 1 hour, 25 minutes, 54 secondsVolume 90%
Press shift question mark to access a list of keyboard shortcuts
00:00
1:25:54
1:25:54
 

Comments

  1. I hope jimmy and Ben hugged it out! I love both of them, and they obviously agree on most things. Tyt is too strong to have rifts among staff, adults can have disagreements without falling out of friendship.

  2. Ben is right so much of the time, but he’s wrong too. I don’t know how he can say that Bernie’s loss wasn’t a result of the democratic establishment and most definitely the Clinton campaign.

  4. Hillary won “fair and square”? Say what? What about the leaked debate questions? Illegal collusion with superPACs? How about the count-the-jellybeans-in-the-jar rules set up for likely Bernie voters in key states? How about Bill Clinton illegally parading around in polling places–REPEATEDLY? How about DNC officials failing to behave neutrally, against their own effing rules? How about collusion with the media? How about the AP announcing that she was the candidate–THE NIGHT BEFORE THE CALIFORNIA PRIMARY–based on secret polling of anonymous superdelegates? How about collusion with state party chairs, most prominently on display at the shitshow that was the Nevada Democratic state convention, where outrageous rules were instigated on the floor and obvious voice votes reversed? Not to mention the slandering of Bernie supporters that followed (flying chairs, anyone?)? There was nothing fair about this primary. Nothing square. It would have been far less insulting if the DNC had no primary but just trotted her out as the candidate, take it or leave it.

  6. Steve I don’t think you were tough enough on Ben.
    I understand that wasn’t necessarily the point of that conversation and I also think you may not be as far left as me (I think I’m somewhere between you and Jimmy politically), but Ben is too forgiving of Hillary’s and the Dem establishment’s shortcomings.

    In my mind it’s a question of motive and Ben doesn’t seem to think the Dems have nefarious motives. I think they do. I think they are philosophically opposed to the agenda of the working class.
    I don’t think Corey Booker cares whether or not I have healthcare he only cares about his political career.

  7. Ben is a great debater. That covers for the fact that his status quo thinking is what got America into this mess.

  8. Ben is smart. Whenever he’s on, it’s almost always improving the show. Main Show, Special Events, Old Scool, whatever.

  9. I like Ben , always bringing new perspective on Tyt , he seems like a very nice person , but I have to say I get what you saying , like there never supposed to be a comparaison between Hilary and trump , I kinda agree but Hilary Wasn’t bringing chance and yes American should have choose her instead of the ???????? clone , money monster , egocentric men , but I disagree that Jimmy and those on the left shouldn’t have focus so much Hilary or that the Russian hacking was that much a big deal on the election , cause if Hilary was good enough and wasn’t so much on the right , maybe she would have still won , and I know we woman wish she was president cause she is a woman , I disagree with this vision , we do need more woman in politics and one president but she should choose someone who vision can inspire us and make the world a better place . And Hilary most likely would have continue with more wars and invade other part of the world . Cause American like to think there are better then the rest of the world and wants to control it using capitaliste and neocolonialism. And yes I trump is that better but maybe people with fight him more and undo his policies and the near future

  10. Holger made some totally good points up in here.

    Just shared Ben’s story with a young Japanese guy about the one essay he wrote and sent to all those schools and nix that school if they didn’t like it. The guy said he LOVES Ben for that move. He also loved the Tufts University new student greeting ‘Hi! I didn’t get into Columbia.’ You know, the best way to see your own American self is through the eyes of someone who has grown up elsewhere.

    Also great about this episode is Steve bringing up personal difficulties as a result of that election. This is something not discussed enough amongst TYTers in my opinion. Of course we’ve all tried denial, experienced the meltdown and suffered the New Year of disbelief. We’ve all heard people say they were ‘in control’ and Cenk say he didn’t suffer too much fallout. I think Ana said something to that effect too. But then, just like after the trauma following a major injury, boy do the painful episodes come and go for a long time. I wondered when somebody up in there would realize just how TRAUMATIC this Trump thing has been on not just our professional lives but on our personal encounters and daily duties. We DID ALL suffer that fallout and it manifests itself in all kinds of weird ways. Ben was saying how incredible schedules were keeping him from his family and how that was having an effect on his health. My main point is this whole Trump thing WAS and still IS the reason for the incredible schedules lots of us started getting as Trump’s candidacy situation got worse for the country and now that his presidency is making things even worse than we all including Jimmy expected.

    Yes this hot mess HAS broken up friendships and families and not just in America. That’s what a disaster does, it leaves you reeling, blaming, sleepless and fighting to make sense of it all. It increases our triggers. A nice vacation or super bowl party just ain’t enough to help restore order and calm, rational thinking after something as unprecedented as this. I love Jimmy too but remember what Cenk said, there is NO was to un-Jimmy him. I imagine it would be SO hard to be around him a lot, but that’s the way it is with most good comedians, they go for the soft underbelly as Seinfeld so accurately said once and their constant search for material makes them tough to live with. So Jimmy, who has always been Jimmy, combined with this election hot mess. Dayam! I’m surprised more people didn’t stop being friends up in there. That is what I really respect about TYT, is everybody’s ability to feel what they feel, take a step back and try to do some introspection and old fashioned admission and apologizing.

    I’m learning a lot about rebuilding rips into stronger relationships thanks to TYT guys. It is still hard for me to accept this mess and see a Trump voter or non-voters as having any redeeming qualities at all, but seeing how Cenk, Steve, Ben, Jimmy and Malcolm deal with their feelings helps me immensely with letting go of my negativity. Love you guys!

  12. Why is Ben so insistent on always giving democrats a pass when they show themselves to be abhorrently gutless?

    It seems as though he has such a loser-oriented mindset. “Yeah, Elizabeth Warren should have run and could have won, but who would choose to have to run and raise $40m just to get their ads handed to them?” Nobody would Ben. Anyone who engages in any daring anf revolutionary endeavor expecting to lose is almost destined to lose. It is so troubling and disgusting that this is the typical mindframe of a mainstream democrat.

    I really hope Ben bets against Justice Democrats.

  13. A great OS, some things that needed to be talked about. I’m one that lost a lot of respect for Jimmy for not seeing the danger of Trump. We are inches away from the Republicans across the nation being able to pass constitutional amendments all on their own.

    The failure of the DNC election yesterday shows that not even trump is enough, and the damage we are looking at to real people, from retirements to health to education may not be able to be undone in for this generation. For people who claim to be empathetic, wishing trump wins so we have a revolution is devastating. I would like to know how many protests and town halls and arrests Jimmy is experiencing. Is he going to be deported? Is he giving up spending time with his kids because he has to protest, and get arrested? What are the Aggressive Progessives doing to put themselves on the line since they are so willing to sacrifice others’ lives?

  14. I disagree with Ben on many issues, especially before the election, but Steve and Jimmy were horribly wrong in their analysis. We have yet to see the Left have a grand moment of unity. The GOP is the strongest they’ve been in almost a century. And Jimmy’s new cult following are too blinded by their outrage at Dems to call him on his bullshit. Fortunately for Steve “I didn’t think he’d actually do those things” Oh, he isn’t a migrant worker and his kids go to private school.

  15. Ben is right that TYT missed the big story on the right. But TYT spotted and followed the Bernie movement on the left, which has been historic . DAPL coverage will lead to environmental focus. Nomiki on DNC crucial. Need stronger anchors in rotation in LA. Good time to grow!

  16. Excellent Old School! I wish every disagreement and argument I have in the future is as thoughtful and filled with clear respect as what this back and forth exampled. Wonderful conversation and thanks for sharing so much about your college days guys! I went to an art college in Detroit and it was very different from even regular college, so great to hear what it was like for those in around the Ivy’s. Very envious my friends! :)

  17. Okay, now, at long last, I can be sure that the Russia story is total bullshit.

    Why? Because Ben believes it.

    Ben is practically the anti-Nostradamus of the left, just as Bill Crystal is on the right. When ever Ben says something on the political scale is as he thinks it is, I instantly know that there is a extremely high probability that it is the other way. That has been my overwhelming experience through 10+ years of following TYT.

      1. Care to be less of an aggressive dick? Or are you just baselessly adopting the “aggressive dick for no good reason” strategy?

        I can point straight to what Ben said on this very show. He was 100% sure, and even scolded Cenk and John, that Trump had no chance of winning, citing polling trends. That was the moment where I began to believe that Trump had a good chance of winning, because, y’know, Ben the anti-Nostradamus.

        He also defended Obama for years on many topics when Cenk was rightly outraged over them. Ben has had a notedly pro-establishment position since forever. He has always sidled slowly, slowly to more progressive points of view, but there is always the “but the establishment is kinda right!” angle to his rhetoric.

        1. Ben is the right wing of TYT. He’s not right wing, but he’s just some of the most right-most part of TYT. He’s unwatchable, making his (yet again) apologist opinion on Hillary known, and the completely off-base statement that “Hillary won” over Sanders when there are dozens of reports of the bias and deck stacking against Bernie from the corporate media and the DNC. If Ben wants to delude himself into thinking Hillary won under her own merits, that’s fine, but repeating the same non-sense isn’t going to convince any informed watcher.

          Ben’s logic escapes me. He has an opinion and because Jimmy’s opinion differs, that makes him wrong? Sounds too close to Trump for comfort. And Jimmy owes him an apology? What a jerk.

          Here’s something I don’t think Ben’s brain with blinders can fathom: while Hillary’s poisonous policies are much less atrocious than Trump’s they’d probably have a more lasting effect because nobody would be as adamantly fighting her like they do with Trump. Yeah, TYT would call it out, so what if nobody’s protesting, doing civil disobedience, calling their representatives. Does Cenk start the Justice Democrats if Hillary wins? I’m not sure, and we’ll never really know. The danger is clear and present. Its pushed people out to protest and be activists that were willing to tolerate the every day injustices of a Corporate Democrat.

    2. If only tyt would have a separate show with: Ben, Hassan and Michael (so I could not watch), but this was shear torture….I mean, next to Jimmy, Steve is my favorite pundit/host…and it was such a drag listening to Ben’s ENDLESS condescension…Way to hang in there Steve.

    3. Oh my god yes. Ben (and Michael) are so frequently wrong when it comes to politics I can’t even begin to comprehend it. Wrong on everything, every single time. And somehow despite this, he manages to maintain such a condescending and matter-of-fact-ness about all of the bullshit that comes out of his mouth on every show.

      Jimmy is always the guy who sees it coming before the rest do. He gets shit for it, and then 6 months later, everyone is saying the same thing he is. Over and over… its amazing.

      1. 100% spot on comment.

        Ben is so consistently wrong, then acts so pompous about it as if he was totally right. It’s infuritating.

        And as for Jimmy predicting this stuff; remember election night?

        I will never forget everyone being stunned that Trump was going to win; and how everyone just lost all hope & then suddenly began to look toward Jimmy.

        I remember seeing it in Cenk’s eyes: “Jimmy was right…oh shit…” They all rallied behind Jimmy, and that night, Jimmy became the standard bearer for all of TYT. And he gave them shit back for it because of the shit they gave him. Respectfully, he (obviously) pretended that he was surprised. “I thought she was gonna win!” That subtle hint of sarcasm, mocking the rest of TYT who gave him shit for telling them otherwise.

        And every time Jimmy said “I agree with everyone else. I think she will landslide Trump.” I could tell he didn’t believe it – only saying it to give lip service to a big group of friends who hated what he had to say about how bad Hillary is for America, as a politician, etc. No one else at TYT wanted to believe Jimmy. They even rallied behind Hillary, betrayed their values, and made Jimmy feel like an outcast.

        Then they look to Jimmy when their cognitive bias is revealed.

        I will never forget that day. It was so obvious seeing Trump’s win incoming. But even TYT didn’t want to believe it – and I won’t even get into how incredibly wrong Ben was for the entire primary.

        1. And the look on Jimmy’s face when Trump was winning? Not even a tiny bit of surprise. That’s how I knew he was bullshitting them when playing along, “Oh sure, she’ll win in a landslide. That’s what everyone wants me to say right?”

  19. I am 1month older than Barak Obama, but I was born in Germany. My mother was German (and white) and my father was in the military and Black. He was in the end of WW2 and in the Korean war. He also went to fight in the Vietnam war. He was unable to bring our family to America until 67 when the supreme court ruling of VA v Loving made it legal for blacks and whites to be married in all states. I bring this up because we all have to realize that the way we see things is based on our history and how we are affected by it. Ben was lucky enough to be raised by a wonderful family that was understanding and believed in democracy. My dad was a great guy who had PTSD before it was even recognized as a mental condition so it was ignored. He also died from cancer which may of been due to being exposed to agent orange in Viet Nam.
    Ben mostly agrees with the fact that neoliberalism has caused the democratic party to abandon the working class and the poor but he thinks it can be reformed gradually from the inside. Jimmy growing up in a dysfunctional household realizes that if we had an empathetic society that helped the poor and powerless we as a society would be better off. generations of kids are losing the most important parts of their lives while we wait for incremental change. I like Ben but his kids will be fine while millions suffer and while we wait for this gradual change. As Martin Luther King spoke of the narcotic effects of incrementalism we were asleep for 8 years with Obama.

  20. Steve makes such intelligent and concrete points but doesn’t seem like Ben even tried to understand him. If Hillary was president there wouldn’t be half the scrunity or awareness of the moves she makes so as much as I agree trump is a monster, he’s waking up people who have been asleep for their
    whole lives. Love Steve and Jimmy!!!

    1. If you believe nothing else of how the primary was rigged you cannot explain away the Super Delegates. When all the Super Delegates decide to support the anointed candidate before the primary starts it’s rigged.

  21. As usual, I vehemently disagree with Ben who seems to be totally disconnected from reality of this election. Really not worth my time to go into it anymore.

  22. Pretty sure the things that come out of Ben’s daughter’s mouth make more sense than anything Trump has ever or will ever say… Just sayin’

  25. Protests occur weekly now that Trump is presidency.

    Ben, do you think ee would have this if Clinton was president? Fuck no. The left would go into an even deeper sleep than with Obama.

    Clinton losing, whether the primary or general election, is the best thing to happen to our nation in decades.

    Because we have a chance to retake our democracy. Together.

  26. Ben is just plain wrong on so many levels; He is wrong and thinks others are wrong? So ironic…

    Despite what some of the blind users here think, the reality is proving Jimmy correct.

    Reality and what is actually happening is showing Ben wrong, Jimmy & Greenwald right, and showing us how great for our democracy a Trump presidency is.

    Steve mentioned these facts to Ben, but then Ben replied “That is wrong.” but without any evidence and xontrary to what is ACTUALLY HAPPENING RIGHT NOW!

    I just cant stand Ben. He lives in a world of white privilege. A Hillary presidency meant he would do great. Maybe even get a tiny bit ahead in exchange for staying decades behind. In reality, people are getting desperate. They cant wait for incremental or nonexistent change from a moderate republican corporatist. In comes Trump, waking apathetic nonparticipants up to democracy, destroying the republican party, obliterating corporate democrats, and giving a rise to Sanders wing of the party.

    This is what we needed to avert destruction.

    No longer do we have a pretty face on ugly policy. Despite what Ben thinks, Obama was not good for us. He was good for corporations and moderate republicans. With Trump we have ugliness revealed for what it is. Democrats are easily placed into catharsis, easily placated bc like Ben most would survive a Clinton presidency bc they are privileged democrats. The poor, or what is now The Working Class need change NOW. They wouldnt survive complacency.

    Society is apathetic and dull. Easily tricked by kind words and smooth talk. To recognize ugliness, They need to be told straight up, “Look at how ugly I am when I do ugly things.” Trump fulfills this, mobilizes people, AND WAKES AMERICA UP!

    So fuck Ben. He would lead us into destruction. Jimmy is leading us to revolution, and the facts and reality being revealed each day prove Jimmy was right the entire time.

    Ben is just plain wrong. And I cant stand it. A perspective of a man who will be fine in complacency. Fuck his Clinton privilege.

  27. Even if you only accept the things revealed in the Podesta Emails that is bad enough. There things like the rigging of the debate schedule, MSM manipulations, and similar factors is tilting the whole process against Sanders. And It was obvious that the the vote itself was manipulated and the discrepancies with the exit polls was substantial. TYT (in general, not just this particular primary) have a blind spot when it comes to election integrity. So don’t pretend like Clinton won the primary fair and square.

  28. This episode was an all-time classic. I love Cenk, but this kind of discussion would not have been possible with him around. I hope Ben called Jimmy and talked this out. Maybe they can appear together on Old School next week.

    I am more skeptical of the DNC establishment than Ben is, but I basically agree with Ben’s position that Jimmy is 100% correct on the facts he presents but is losing the plot when it comes to the big picture. The problems with Trump’s presidency are 1. There will be so much damage inflicted it will take years to reverse before we can even get ahead with a progressive agenda (much like Holger said.) 2. There is a possibility that Trump’s failure could discredit populism in the near term and make the politicians of the corporate establishment more attractive to the electorate instead of less attractive (as Ben alluded to.)

    Where I disagree with Ben is on how much importance he puts on Russian meddling in the US election. Even if they were totally responsible for the DNC and Podesta leaks getting out (which there isn’t strong enough public evidence of for me to totally accept) I don’t think it had enough impact to sway the election. (The Comey letter is much more arguable as a critical factor.) However, I do think many progressives need to put the campaign stuff aside and pay more attention to the non-election-related ties between Trump’s cronies and Russian interests because there is definitely a bad stench about it. This isn’t red-baiting. First off, Russia isn’t Communist anymore, and secondly, wanting to investigate conflicts of interest doesn’t mean you want to go to war.

    And Steve, congratulations on escaping the friend zone!

  29. I really like Jimmy and the Aggressive Progressives show, but strongly disagree with him on one issue; on another issue Jimmy is just wrong because he doesn’t know what he is talking about.

    I disagree with Jimmy’s attempt to play three-dimensional chess with the general election as a Trump win would “rip off the mask of the system” and “destroy the GOP”, as Jimmy said a hundred times. Turns out, the Trump presidency _reformed_ the GOP and tore up the Democrats. How’s that for a plot twisty mindfuck in the last shot? Jimmy also thinks the upside of a Trump presidency will be that the left would unite and fight for progressive policies. The left – even if they unite – will have to fight for a long time just to _undo_ (!) the setbacks of the Trump administration. They most likely will have to reinstall the rather miniscule goals they already had accomplished. Jimmy’s calculation will not work out. Plus, hundreds of thousands of people will get hurt or die during this process (e.g. if they lose health insurance). So I would call this strategy immensely dense and naive.

    Where Jimmy is just wrong and lacking insight and knowledge is Brexit and the EU, which he described as some kind of corporate scheme to fuck over the working class. In fact, the EU may have its shortcomings, but the advancement of workers’ and consumer rights, trade and the environment is its key mission. Workers are free to live and work in each member state, the EU frequently overrules unjust legislation in member states that would hurt workers, the EU drastically improved and improves the quality of life regarding environmental conditions (where member states themselves like the UK in particular just weren’t able to), the EU helped to scale down prices (no mobile roaming fees from 2017 when you use your French plan in Sweden, your Polish plan in Portugal etc), flying within the EU got incredibly affordable (about $ 35 to $ 55 from Berlin to Barcelona), the EU saved hundreds of regions in different countries with the aid of structural funds, academic research benefited intensely and became transnational within the EU and so on and so forth. I don’t know where Jimmy gets his “information”, but taking every statement by Žižek and Varoufakis for granted probably isn’t the best basis to form an opinion.

    2. The GOP wasn’t going to implode on day 1 of a Trump presidency, and its only been two months. Eventually he probably will do lasting damage to the party, the same way they started to run when George Bush was going down in the polls. They will eventually leave him, its just a matter of when.

      However on Brexit that is completely true, as well as the rest of TYT. Their coverage was almost none until a week or two before, and they clearly didn’t understand it. I think the reason was because most issues are presented as left vs right, so people don’t need to think – just pick your side. Whereas Brexit wasn’t left vs right, there was members of each party campaigning on each side, and it seemed like TYT couldn’t figure out what the “progressive” position was. Also the EU cannot be compared to America, and the role of cooperations. The EU is also incredible important for countries within the UK, especially if it borders an EU country, receives aid and can’t sustain its own economy. That said I do like Jimmy but he didn’t even know the difference between Britain and the UK, or that NI was a country in it (while claiming to be Irish ffs).

  30. Its funny Ben is definitely polarizing among the TYT audience because he is not as anti-establishment as most of the rest of TYT is. I fall on the side of those that think Ben is a valuable voice on the show. Its easy to become anti-establishment for the sake of being anti-establishment and I think Ben is good at being a counter balance to that.

  31. Much love! Ben is probably my favorite anchor. Shame hes not on more often. He just comes off as such a reasonable guy with good perspectives.

    1. On the contrary, I think Ben is truly insightful, being able to discern between want could have happened, what could have happened, and what did happen. To perpetually re-run the Primary is wasting cycles; Sanders was obviously the better candidate, but he started to build momentum too late and from too far back. Clinton was undeniably a poor candidate, and the DNC were totally blind to the reality of the political landscape. Yep, agreed, got it. Obama was not a great Democratic POTUS, but he was a decent mainstream POTUS.

      Those people that believe the ascension of Agent Orange, aka Trump, is actually good for the Left/country are the ones that are living in a singular reality. The appropriate rise in left-wing popularism is interesting and encouraging, but that’s only “good” if you’re not being deported, or repressed, or stripped of your rights, or a citizen of the world.

      Now, I’m putting words in Ben’s mouth, but that’s what I believe he is saying. How it that not being realistic..?

      I agree with the majority of commenters here, Ben’s a huge asset to TYT, and I wish he was on more regularly. His perspective helps provide a counter-balance and avoids everyone else succumbing to the perils of a self-satisfying echo-chamber. The Jimmy’s are interesting, but, honestly, they are very inexperienced and naive. I honour the passion, and where it’s coming from, but they do not have much of a historical awareness to fall back on. That’s not to say they are wrong about everything (or individual facts), just in their conclusion.

      Anyway, a great Old School.

  33. Let me start by saying I have nothing but love for everyone at TYT.

    Thank you so much Ben, for your consistent injection of truth and perspective whenever a conversation gets a bit too hyperbolic. I know you must feel like a wet blanket sometimes, but I think it is incredibly important.

  34. why does Ben always have to point out his religion in abt 5 sec. I am born with REAL Jewish blood, (from a mother) myself but who the hell cares????
    Do you really believe those fables??
    come on!!!. We`re not in biblical times.
    Ben, you´re smart and funny, and you know whats going on. So why do you need to play something that you are not???
    I dont think for a second that Ben Mankiewicz believes in religion at all, as I think Ben is too smart, (religious or otherwise).
    So why fake it? It just gives ammunition for others against you,
    Or mayby Im totally wrong and Ben Mankiewicz is really religious, which makes both of us stupid.

    2. He’s not religious, his father was very “culturally Jewish”. It’s like an ethnicity with lots of traditions and stories.

      1. I dont think he is more religious than me, and that is my point. Why bring your roots into every conversation?
        Ben is one of my favorite hosts at tyt, and I dont remember disagreeing with him on any important thing, plus I have no objection to referencing your heritage once in a while. Just seems a little too much to bring it up in every conversation.
        Still love the guy and he is smart as hell so,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
        Ben Mankiewicz & Michael Moore 2020???
        (might even get Eminem for the the inauguration)

Leave a Comment