Grace Baldridge and comedian, Christine Medrano, talk about the case of Diane Downs, a single mother that killed all three of her children. They talk Diane’s mental state and the issues she had with the men in her life.
Another reason not to want to call people garbage is it dehumanizes them, aaand that excuses all the very human qualities and situations that go into how a person like that grows and comes to be in the first place.
It’s never a good idea to dehumanize anyone, no matter how brutal and horrible they are. Call them terrible, dangerous, awful people, yes, and deal with them as dangerous, horrible people, but calling them garbage, vermin, monsters, or whatever, instead of people who’ve done evil, leads to the rest of us walking paths we should never walk.
So I mentioned this on a different episode every once in awhile I go back and rewatch episodes, doing that tonight…
Grace you mentioned “knowing too much about murder” and I have to admit I am the same way. The good person in me wants to stop when I see someone pulled off on the road but the paranoid part of me is like “nope”. One time we were driving to my dad’s and he lives out in the sticks on a farm and we saw someone stopped very close to his exit. My husband pulled off but barely cracked the window to make sure the guy was ok. The guy (who we later could see had a family) also would not approach our car so they were like yelling at each other back and forth to keep distance. He had triple A we went on our way. Now in fairness, this was years after what happened to Diane but still, there was a lot of caution taken by my husband and by the guy who was stuck. I can’t imagine ever stopping my car, turning it off, getting out, crazy.
New to TYT, just found this sub channel. I am loving it, but you really need to look up the difference between a sociopath and a psychopath, you kept calling her a sociopath. She, if what she is being accused of is true, is a psychopath. I am a sociopath, I would never consider shooting my children, there is a difference. People confuse the two words. A quick look on wikipediea will tell you the difference, one is no emotion, one is a different moral code.
OK, whoever put a picture of a dog up when Grace was talking about calling her dog a sociopath is fantastic. I love little touches like that. It made me crack up!
I read Small Sacrifices. Interestingly, Ann Rule knew Ted Bundy before anyone knew he was a serial killer.
Apparently Diane’s married lover either off-handedly or kind of as a way of breaking up with Diane told her that he didn’t want kids or that maybe if she didn’t have kids they could make it work. She was really deluded and thought he really meant it, when really he didn’t want a relationship with her beyond their sexual fling. So being a sociopath, she really thought getting rid of her kids would get her what she wanted.
Also, according to the book, Diane Downs loved being pregnant. Some women have a hard time with it but apparently some women feel great when they are pregnant, like Diane. So it wasn’t so much of a sacrifice to her to get pregnant to garner sympathy during the trial. I have to crack up at Grace wondering why a dude would sleep with her. It’s not like he’s thinking, oh let’s have a baby! It’s more like, I don’t mind hitting that. I doubt she let her one night stand in on her plan.
More about her daughter testifying against her. Part of Diane’s story was that she took the keys out of the ignition but at trial her daughter testified that “Hungry Like the Wolf” was playing while she was shooting her and her brother and sister so there was no way the key wasn’t in the ignition at that point. Also, the prosecution asked Diane’s daughter if she loved her mother and the answer was “yes.” Most heart breaking thing ever. Whenever “Hungry Like the Wolf” comes on the radio, I have to switch stations.
Medical staff definitely noticed that Diane waited a long time to bring her kids in after shooting them. I don’t know if she was waiting for them to die or what but way to prolong their torture. Seems strange that she didn’t have the gumption to shoot to kill but didn’t mind waiting for them to bleed to death.
You need to have Christine on again to talk about Jodie Arias since she seems to know a lot about that case.
Oh, I forgot to mention! Diane was a mail carrier herself. Or at least she worked at the P.O. She used to wear shirts that showed underboob and her shirt would lift when she reached up high putting mail away.
An interesting thought that came to me as you discussed the promiscuity of Christine Medrano and whether it SHOULD matter, it occurs to me that very often the men who do this (not always, but often) have trouble getting laid, while women often are extremely ‘available’. I think it IS a valid element, and something that should be researched. I would like to know more about what science will come to conclude regarding this.
I remember this case and it was one that started to form my thoughts and general philosophy on crime and the public’s reactions to it. One thing in particular that struck me at the time (and every other mother/violence case as well) is how often people don’t WANT to believe it could be true. “How could ANY mother [fill in the blank]” This attitude concerns me, especially in juries who stand in judgement over the worst cases. People don’t want to believe, and find looking at the truth of the matter difficult, because they put themselves in the criminal’s shoes and judge from there.
But, really, the people that have your compassion are usually not the ones who will end up on Murder with Friends. ~.^ So, in the end, you have to judge the criminal as the humans they are, not the human YOU are. “How could a mother kill her children?”… “How could a man kill his whole family?”… “How could this person stalk another person and run them down like prey in the woods?”… All of THOSE questions are inappropriate, because they are not about the criminal, they are about YOU.
Yes, you would not, could not do that, will never be able to emotionally connect with the mindset that created that crime. The point is, THEY can. Free will allows it. And you have to let them be who they are, rather than who most of the rest of us are, if you are judging the case in the courtroom or even just in regular life. In regular life, *Ahem* it is especially important if you are thinking of creating a ‘truther’ page for some hideous criminal. (!!!, sheesh!)
I suspect that, in the end, the monsters of the world actually DO have more in common with us than we’d like to believe. And we have more in common with them, which is the hitch that leaves so many people who don’t want to admit or allow them to be what they are, for fear of allowing that repellent violence into ones own world/mind/soul. The world is what it is, you do better by acknowledging that. As for the mind and the soul, the thing to remember is we have those few little things that they don’t… beginning with empathy and a concience. Don’t fear to name the monster. S/he is NOT you, and you do not need to fear the name of the beast.
But fearing to name the beast IS dangerous, as it can lead to leaving that evil wandering society freely, or failing to recognize another beast before tragedy strikes. Not good.
During the Oprah interview- “Look at all of these feelings things inside I am having right now, as we are currently talking. its just so overwhelming…”
It’s like an alien impression of a human being.
i was so enchanted (if that’s the correct word) by the “Hungry Like a Wolf” courtroom scene, that i saw “Small Sacrifices” on YouTube — it’s there if you want to see it, and Farrah is really good as Diane, a sociopath. but she didn’t kill all three of her children; only one died, and the other two survived, albeit with lifelong injuries.
i too would love to see shows on Susan Smith and Casey Anthony, please please. your commentary is so unique and mighty entertaining!
I read “Small Sacrifices” by Ann Rule years ago! She was very much a sociopath. She was the ultimate attention whore. Being pregnant was part of her way to get attention. Dressing provocatively & acting “slutty” was a way of getting attention.
I had totally forgot about her!
Great show, btw. Hooked my daughter on watching this as well!
i used to babysit a 3-year-old, and we’d watch tv together. she’d sit on my lap, and we’d watch Scooby-Doo and Forensic Files. Evon called the latter show my “murder show” lol.
Another great show, Grace. Here’s a suggestion: do a show on Casey Anthony. I know she wasn’t convicted of killing her child, but we all know she did it!
Wow, I can’t believe I hadn’t heard of her. I read People back then. What creeped me out was how much she tried to look like Princess Diana when she was preggers with Prince William. Also, this case is sounds so much like the woman who wanted to be with her rich lover who didn’t want kids, so she drove her sons into a lake and blamed an African American person for stealing her car. She never once cried when being interviewed. Damn, I can’t remember her name.
at first, i figured this one for a religious experience-type of murder, but it turned out to be more like a Susan Smith-type of crime. i think the biggest diff between the 2 is that Susan meant to kill her kids, and Diane … well, who knows? apparently, both were having affairs with men for whom they supposedly wanted to ditch their kids; hence, the murders.
interesting show, interesting murderess, bad casting (Farrah as Diane? not in any other universe than this one) — but that scene, when she’s rocking to “Hungry Like the Wolf” and everyone is staring at her, is totally creepy. it made me want to see the movie. she looks way spaced out as far as everything that occurs outside her own circle of life experiences. it’s all in the eyes.
Comments
That grave music over the dog’s thumbnail… I laughed!
Another reason not to want to call people garbage is it dehumanizes them, aaand that excuses all the very human qualities and situations that go into how a person like that grows and comes to be in the first place.
It’s never a good idea to dehumanize anyone, no matter how brutal and horrible they are. Call them terrible, dangerous, awful people, yes, and deal with them as dangerous, horrible people, but calling them garbage, vermin, monsters, or whatever, instead of people who’ve done evil, leads to the rest of us walking paths we should never walk.
I want to respect your point but I do not see the difference between horrible and garbage.
Also people can be garbage or horrible
So I mentioned this on a different episode every once in awhile I go back and rewatch episodes, doing that tonight…
Grace you mentioned “knowing too much about murder” and I have to admit I am the same way. The good person in me wants to stop when I see someone pulled off on the road but the paranoid part of me is like “nope”. One time we were driving to my dad’s and he lives out in the sticks on a farm and we saw someone stopped very close to his exit. My husband pulled off but barely cracked the window to make sure the guy was ok. The guy (who we later could see had a family) also would not approach our car so they were like yelling at each other back and forth to keep distance. He had triple A we went on our way. Now in fairness, this was years after what happened to Diane but still, there was a lot of caution taken by my husband and by the guy who was stuck. I can’t imagine ever stopping my car, turning it off, getting out, crazy.
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1987/07/21/Escaped-child-killer-Elizabeth-Diane-Downs-was-captured-Tuesday-at/5508553838400/
She climbed a fence!
Grace- Since you’re doing a murder/death show, can we skip pretending to be ashamed or guilty that we are interested in this topic?
Never stick your dick in crazy…
New to TYT, just found this sub channel. I am loving it, but you really need to look up the difference between a sociopath and a psychopath, you kept calling her a sociopath. She, if what she is being accused of is true, is a psychopath. I am a sociopath, I would never consider shooting my children, there is a difference. People confuse the two words. A quick look on wikipediea will tell you the difference, one is no emotion, one is a different moral code.
No you aren’t and no they don’t
OK, whoever put a picture of a dog up when Grace was talking about calling her dog a sociopath is fantastic. I love little touches like that. It made me crack up!
I read Small Sacrifices. Interestingly, Ann Rule knew Ted Bundy before anyone knew he was a serial killer.
Apparently Diane’s married lover either off-handedly or kind of as a way of breaking up with Diane told her that he didn’t want kids or that maybe if she didn’t have kids they could make it work. She was really deluded and thought he really meant it, when really he didn’t want a relationship with her beyond their sexual fling. So being a sociopath, she really thought getting rid of her kids would get her what she wanted.
Also, according to the book, Diane Downs loved being pregnant. Some women have a hard time with it but apparently some women feel great when they are pregnant, like Diane. So it wasn’t so much of a sacrifice to her to get pregnant to garner sympathy during the trial. I have to crack up at Grace wondering why a dude would sleep with her. It’s not like he’s thinking, oh let’s have a baby! It’s more like, I don’t mind hitting that. I doubt she let her one night stand in on her plan.
More about her daughter testifying against her. Part of Diane’s story was that she took the keys out of the ignition but at trial her daughter testified that “Hungry Like the Wolf” was playing while she was shooting her and her brother and sister so there was no way the key wasn’t in the ignition at that point. Also, the prosecution asked Diane’s daughter if she loved her mother and the answer was “yes.” Most heart breaking thing ever. Whenever “Hungry Like the Wolf” comes on the radio, I have to switch stations.
Medical staff definitely noticed that Diane waited a long time to bring her kids in after shooting them. I don’t know if she was waiting for them to die or what but way to prolong their torture. Seems strange that she didn’t have the gumption to shoot to kill but didn’t mind waiting for them to bleed to death.
You need to have Christine on again to talk about Jodie Arias since she seems to know a lot about that case.
Oh, I forgot to mention! Diane was a mail carrier herself. Or at least she worked at the P.O. She used to wear shirts that showed underboob and her shirt would lift when she reached up high putting mail away.
OMG Opera’s hair in the early 80’s. That is a true crime story in and of itself. wow
An interesting thought that came to me as you discussed the promiscuity of Christine Medrano and whether it SHOULD matter, it occurs to me that very often the men who do this (not always, but often) have trouble getting laid, while women often are extremely ‘available’. I think it IS a valid element, and something that should be researched. I would like to know more about what science will come to conclude regarding this.
I remember this case and it was one that started to form my thoughts and general philosophy on crime and the public’s reactions to it. One thing in particular that struck me at the time (and every other mother/violence case as well) is how often people don’t WANT to believe it could be true. “How could ANY mother [fill in the blank]” This attitude concerns me, especially in juries who stand in judgement over the worst cases. People don’t want to believe, and find looking at the truth of the matter difficult, because they put themselves in the criminal’s shoes and judge from there.
But, really, the people that have your compassion are usually not the ones who will end up on Murder with Friends. ~.^ So, in the end, you have to judge the criminal as the humans they are, not the human YOU are. “How could a mother kill her children?”… “How could a man kill his whole family?”… “How could this person stalk another person and run them down like prey in the woods?”… All of THOSE questions are inappropriate, because they are not about the criminal, they are about YOU.
Yes, you would not, could not do that, will never be able to emotionally connect with the mindset that created that crime. The point is, THEY can. Free will allows it. And you have to let them be who they are, rather than who most of the rest of us are, if you are judging the case in the courtroom or even just in regular life. In regular life, *Ahem* it is especially important if you are thinking of creating a ‘truther’ page for some hideous criminal. (!!!, sheesh!)
I suspect that, in the end, the monsters of the world actually DO have more in common with us than we’d like to believe. And we have more in common with them, which is the hitch that leaves so many people who don’t want to admit or allow them to be what they are, for fear of allowing that repellent violence into ones own world/mind/soul. The world is what it is, you do better by acknowledging that. As for the mind and the soul, the thing to remember is we have those few little things that they don’t… beginning with empathy and a concience. Don’t fear to name the monster. S/he is NOT you, and you do not need to fear the name of the beast.
But fearing to name the beast IS dangerous, as it can lead to leaving that evil wandering society freely, or failing to recognize another beast before tragedy strikes. Not good.
During the Oprah interview- “Look at all of these feelings things inside I am having right now, as we are currently talking. its just so overwhelming…”
It’s like an alien impression of a human being.
Why does the discribtion say killed all 3 children when only 1 died?
Please correct the text please
i was so enchanted (if that’s the correct word) by the “Hungry Like a Wolf” courtroom scene, that i saw “Small Sacrifices” on YouTube — it’s there if you want to see it, and Farrah is really good as Diane, a sociopath. but she didn’t kill all three of her children; only one died, and the other two survived, albeit with lifelong injuries.
i too would love to see shows on Susan Smith and Casey Anthony, please please. your commentary is so unique and mighty entertaining!
I read “Small Sacrifices” by Ann Rule years ago! She was very much a sociopath. She was the ultimate attention whore. Being pregnant was part of her way to get attention. Dressing provocatively & acting “slutty” was a way of getting attention.
I had totally forgot about her!
Great show, btw. Hooked my daughter on watching this as well!
Hungry Like a Wolf is now ruined for me forever. She is terrifying!
Such a fun show. Reminds me of all those true crime shows I used to watch on A&E growing up. Keep up the good work Grace.
i used to babysit a 3-year-old, and we’d watch tv together. she’d sit on my lap, and we’d watch Scooby-Doo and Forensic Files. Evon called the latter show my “murder show” lol.
My Grandpa dated the Black Widow in Texas back in the day. 1970s I think. Dumped her when she got clingy. Would love to see a segment on her!
Another great show, Grace. Here’s a suggestion: do a show on Casey Anthony. I know she wasn’t convicted of killing her child, but we all know she did it!
Susan Smith. Thank you. Your comment wasn’t up when I wrote mine.
Wow, I can’t believe I hadn’t heard of her. I read People back then. What creeped me out was how much she tried to look like Princess Diana when she was preggers with Prince William. Also, this case is sounds so much like the woman who wanted to be with her rich lover who didn’t want kids, so she drove her sons into a lake and blamed an African American person for stealing her car. She never once cried when being interviewed. Damn, I can’t remember her name.
at first, i figured this one for a religious experience-type of murder, but it turned out to be more like a Susan Smith-type of crime. i think the biggest diff between the 2 is that Susan meant to kill her kids, and Diane … well, who knows? apparently, both were having affairs with men for whom they supposedly wanted to ditch their kids; hence, the murders.
interesting show, interesting murderess, bad casting (Farrah as Diane? not in any other universe than this one) — but that scene, when she’s rocking to “Hungry Like the Wolf” and everyone is staring at her, is totally creepy. it made me want to see the movie. she looks way spaced out as far as everything that occurs outside her own circle of life experiences. it’s all in the eyes.
Grace~
Your show would be worth the cost of membership by itself~!
My favorite guilty pleasure.
~Upaya~