I agree with Steveosaurous. I love Cenk and I agree with the points he is making but I feel it defeats the purpose if he spends more time ranting about/repeating them than actually covering stories. If Cenk and Jimmy could find a happy medium between the way they cover stories I think they would get through more of them. While Cenk will sit between stories and repeats the same point over and over, Jimmy constantly stops to make points interrupting segments but is fairly quick about it. If they would wait until the end of a segment, make their points/observations, and move on, I think it would greatly help with the issue. That and an additional segment as Steveosaurous mentioned.
Yeah. News flash, running a private business is expensive. ‘Cuz you have to do stuff like…you know…pay wages? Benefits? Rent for the studio? Utilities? ‘Cuz stuff isn’t free?
I understand that but a lot of this seems like extra. It’s not “we need 500k for facilities and studio staff”, it’s “we’d like another reporting team.” They risk getting caught in the corporate trap of “more more bigger bigger” rather than being content with a certain level of success. Money is tight for a lot of people, and funding a unessential addition to the team is not a priority for them.
That’s the thing, he was asking. They’ve said several times that they understand if you can’t do it. And these three different things are actually different things. Membership pays to keep the lights on, pay the existing staff, etc. The fundraising for investigative journalists is something that we need now more than ever, especially since MSM isn’t doing it anymore. But if no one wanted to donate, nothing would have changed for members. We’d still have the regular TYT show. Wolf PAC is entirely different. Yes, it’s Cenk’s project, but it’s a political action committee (PAC) that is pushing for legislation in a real way that can have real results if people are willing to put in the time to get organized and work w/ their reps at the state level (and yes, that requires some money). Look at it this way: there are all sorts of talking heads along the entire political spectrum. How many of those people are actually doing something to drive the change that they blather on about day after day? Not many. Most just give money and hope for the best. But for the change WE want, we need boots on the ground in every state. We need people calling, writing, and showing up.
If you can’t give or don’t want to, that’s fine. And they aren’t trying to guilt trip us, which I appreciate since money is tight for me right now and I literally could not spare $5 at the moment.
I don’t understand why there is such a thing as “stories we didn’t get to”. From a news perspective, this doesn’t make any sense to me.
I’m assuming someone had to research these and fact check them. Someone spent time putting the stories together (even if they’re just sourcing other news sites). This is money being thrown down the drain.
Just have someone like John or something read these off in a separate segment. Maybe make a little comment and move on. Add an hour 3 or something if you have to. Or maybe spend 30 less minutes re-hashing Trump’s horrible cabinet picks. I feel you guys have covered this topic EXTENSIVELY.
I like both Nomiki Konst and Shaun King in general, but those picks are less progressive that possible, and, more importantly, are rather activists than journalists: they do not adhere to the principles of journalism:
1. Shaun King is engaged in active red-baiting on his Twitter account, spreading Democrats’ conspiracy theories on how people who do not agree with them are Putin’s agents, as well as this whole “Russian government has hacked the DNC/Podesta” claim that has literally zero evidence behind it (and Obama confirmed that nothing will be released on the matter). This is a post-truth, post-factual propaganda that goes against the principles of journalism. Sadly, Shaun does not show scepticism towards government’s claims which should be a must for a real professional journalist (versus just an activist, where it can be forgiveable).
2. Nomiki Konst’s twitter feed: she was retweeting videos of T-Rex oil guy receiving Order of friendship from Putin as if it is an incriminating evidence (dozens of Americans were awarded with the same Order, among countless more people from other countries, as well as from Russia itself; are they all Putin’s spies now?) and neocon maniac Lindsay Graham’s insanity on how Russia wants to destroy democracy all around the world, as well as pro “regime change”/StateDep propaganda on Syria. Zero scepticism about the claims by the government, too (again: this is not allowed for a journalist versus just an activist, where it can be forgiveable).
This development moves TYT away from being both a truly progressive outlet as well as journalistic entity. You can see the difference between organizations that are co-run/co-created by professional journalists like The Intercept, IBTimes, AlterNet, Fair where scepticism towards government is a must in most cases, where the watchdog mentality rules, and TYT, where such scepticism and watchdog mentality are inconsistent, not principal, only work when it is fits to a narrative. The reason for that is that Cenk himself is not a journalist, but a commentator-activist, he does not have the journalistic mentality, discipline and rigour in fact-checking, in separation of facts and speculations.
And, as always, I am not suggesting that Cenk intentionally wants things to be this way: this is just how his mind works, he is not Glenn Greenwald. Thus so far TYT has only one true journalist in terms of professionalism: Jordan Chariton. He is close in ability to own critical thinking to professionals at The Intercept, it is still great that TYT has him.
King and Konst are also investigative journalists. And Chariton is no different from them. How can you claim that Chariton is a ‘true journalist’ and those other two aren’t?
Also Greenwald is MASSIVELY partisan and not at all that different from Chariton and the others.
Who cares if Cenk is not a journalist? WHO DA FUCK CARES?? CEOs ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE JOURNOS! And how does that gets in the way of hiring professional journalists like Chariton, Konst and King? So far it hasn’t.
Your ‘purity test’ for journalism is faulty, blind, arrogant and dumb as a doorknob.
I did state it pretty clear that the key quality of real journalist versus commentator-activist is scepticism.
And we should care about journalism since Cenk says he wants to hire journalists. But, as showed, the two that were hired have activist, rather than journalist mentality. They do not mean anything bad, but in result they participate in pretty horrible practices. It is the same as what has happened in the middle of 2000s when journalists uncritically repeated the claims that Saddam Hussein had WMDs and was tied to Al-Qaeda, never interested in the fact that there is no evidence of that and that the claim actually contradicts to what is known otherwise. I am sure most of those journalists did not mean harm, but the result was horrible.
As to Cenk, I only explained the fact that he is not a journalist to show why he could not differentiate between journalists and activists himself, hence chose the two that he has hired. I am not demanding that he himself would magically reformat his mentality to install scepticism in the government’s claims, but, theoretically, he could become aware of the importance of scepticism for journalists and choose journalists to hire with the use of such criteria. Scepticism is the key quality for a journalist to have so he/she would not become, even unwittingly, a propaganda tool for the most reactionary, hacky, fear/war mongering, incendiary PR from the government as the current red scare case, for example.
And, by the way, how Greenwald and Chariton are “partisan”? Never heard of them being complementary to either Republicans or Democrats. They only say positive things about parties if they are doing anything in support of transparency, freedom of speech, fight against corruption, and so one. Those are not partisan issues.
dders always flips out at anyone or any news that he/she views in anyway anti russian/putin. you gotta always remember, rest of the world bad. russia,putin and their allies good. notice as soon as it seemed like trump and putin could be allies. we started seeing in the comments dders writing “i know trump is not good,but in this instance cenk/tyt is wrong about trump in this particular story” it’s always the same with dders. russia/putin and their allies always right. now i don’t think russia is always the big bad in every situation. but they are just as corrupt as every other major government. dders has even been spouting bullshit like assad is not a criminal dictator that has no problem murdering his citizens. now wether we should be involved in the coup in syria or not is one thing. but to say he’s not a dictator that hasn’t murdered and tortured innocent civilians is an outright lie
Agreed. How about a touch of scepticism towards the Russian government and their propaganda? As somebody from a country that has a deep and troubled history with Russia, I see Putin with his attempted/successful takeover of neighbouring territories in Georgia and Ukraine and it sends a shudder down my spine… if you are geographically removed, I suppose it is much easier to give them the benefit of the doubt – if you are in their back yard, you might come to have a different take on things. They invaded half of Europe not that long ago, and it sure looks like their appetite is growing this time around. We’ve seen and lived this totalitarian dystopia, thank you very much, and wouldn’t put much of anything past them. The mood is not Germany post WW2, its more like Germany post WW1 and we all know how that turned out…
You hit the nail, my man – exactly what I was thinking. Greenwald, Taibbi, Goodman, Mike Pap – those would be some of my dream team.
I hope with all my heart she does a good job, but for the moment being, just can’t figure out how she would suddenly develop both the resourcefulness and the impartial, very critical mindset of a journalist with a difference. Cenk found an absolute diamond in the rough with Jordan. Hope he’s making the right decision, not indulging in some form of gallery play. The easy way never pays off in the long run.
Comments
Tape keeps freezing, SERAAAABIEES
I agree with Steveosaurous. I love Cenk and I agree with the points he is making but I feel it defeats the purpose if he spends more time ranting about/repeating them than actually covering stories. If Cenk and Jimmy could find a happy medium between the way they cover stories I think they would get through more of them. While Cenk will sit between stories and repeats the same point over and over, Jimmy constantly stops to make points interrupting segments but is fairly quick about it. If they would wait until the end of a segment, make their points/observations, and move on, I think it would greatly help with the issue. That and an additional segment as Steveosaurous mentioned.
So we pay to be a member, and Cenk is asking us to donate to Wolf PAC, $500,000 for a reporter+crew, and now $500,000 more… Seems a bit much to me.
Yeah. News flash, running a private business is expensive. ‘Cuz you have to do stuff like…you know…pay wages? Benefits? Rent for the studio? Utilities? ‘Cuz stuff isn’t free?
I understand that but a lot of this seems like extra. It’s not “we need 500k for facilities and studio staff”, it’s “we’d like another reporting team.” They risk getting caught in the corporate trap of “more more bigger bigger” rather than being content with a certain level of success. Money is tight for a lot of people, and funding a unessential addition to the team is not a priority for them.
That’s the thing, he was asking. They’ve said several times that they understand if you can’t do it. And these three different things are actually different things. Membership pays to keep the lights on, pay the existing staff, etc. The fundraising for investigative journalists is something that we need now more than ever, especially since MSM isn’t doing it anymore. But if no one wanted to donate, nothing would have changed for members. We’d still have the regular TYT show. Wolf PAC is entirely different. Yes, it’s Cenk’s project, but it’s a political action committee (PAC) that is pushing for legislation in a real way that can have real results if people are willing to put in the time to get organized and work w/ their reps at the state level (and yes, that requires some money). Look at it this way: there are all sorts of talking heads along the entire political spectrum. How many of those people are actually doing something to drive the change that they blather on about day after day? Not many. Most just give money and hope for the best. But for the change WE want, we need boots on the ground in every state. We need people calling, writing, and showing up.
If you can’t give or don’t want to, that’s fine. And they aren’t trying to guilt trip us, which I appreciate since money is tight for me right now and I literally could not spare $5 at the moment.
I don’t understand why there is such a thing as “stories we didn’t get to”. From a news perspective, this doesn’t make any sense to me.
I’m assuming someone had to research these and fact check them. Someone spent time putting the stories together (even if they’re just sourcing other news sites). This is money being thrown down the drain.
Just have someone like John or something read these off in a separate segment. Maybe make a little comment and move on. Add an hour 3 or something if you have to. Or maybe spend 30 less minutes re-hashing Trump’s horrible cabinet picks. I feel you guys have covered this topic EXTENSIVELY.
I just don’t get it.
I like both Nomiki Konst and Shaun King in general, but those picks are less progressive that possible, and, more importantly, are rather activists than journalists: they do not adhere to the principles of journalism:
1. Shaun King is engaged in active red-baiting on his Twitter account, spreading Democrats’ conspiracy theories on how people who do not agree with them are Putin’s agents, as well as this whole “Russian government has hacked the DNC/Podesta” claim that has literally zero evidence behind it (and Obama confirmed that nothing will be released on the matter). This is a post-truth, post-factual propaganda that goes against the principles of journalism. Sadly, Shaun does not show scepticism towards government’s claims which should be a must for a real professional journalist (versus just an activist, where it can be forgiveable).
2. Nomiki Konst’s twitter feed: she was retweeting videos of T-Rex oil guy receiving Order of friendship from Putin as if it is an incriminating evidence (dozens of Americans were awarded with the same Order, among countless more people from other countries, as well as from Russia itself; are they all Putin’s spies now?) and neocon maniac Lindsay Graham’s insanity on how Russia wants to destroy democracy all around the world, as well as pro “regime change”/StateDep propaganda on Syria. Zero scepticism about the claims by the government, too (again: this is not allowed for a journalist versus just an activist, where it can be forgiveable).
This development moves TYT away from being both a truly progressive outlet as well as journalistic entity. You can see the difference between organizations that are co-run/co-created by professional journalists like The Intercept, IBTimes, AlterNet, Fair where scepticism towards government is a must in most cases, where the watchdog mentality rules, and TYT, where such scepticism and watchdog mentality are inconsistent, not principal, only work when it is fits to a narrative. The reason for that is that Cenk himself is not a journalist, but a commentator-activist, he does not have the journalistic mentality, discipline and rigour in fact-checking, in separation of facts and speculations.
And, as always, I am not suggesting that Cenk intentionally wants things to be this way: this is just how his mind works, he is not Glenn Greenwald. Thus so far TYT has only one true journalist in terms of professionalism: Jordan Chariton. He is close in ability to own critical thinking to professionals at The Intercept, it is still great that TYT has him.
King and Konst are also investigative journalists. And Chariton is no different from them. How can you claim that Chariton is a ‘true journalist’ and those other two aren’t?
Also Greenwald is MASSIVELY partisan and not at all that different from Chariton and the others.
Who cares if Cenk is not a journalist? WHO DA FUCK CARES?? CEOs ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE JOURNOS! And how does that gets in the way of hiring professional journalists like Chariton, Konst and King? So far it hasn’t.
Your ‘purity test’ for journalism is faulty, blind, arrogant and dumb as a doorknob.
I did state it pretty clear that the key quality of real journalist versus commentator-activist is scepticism.
And we should care about journalism since Cenk says he wants to hire journalists. But, as showed, the two that were hired have activist, rather than journalist mentality. They do not mean anything bad, but in result they participate in pretty horrible practices. It is the same as what has happened in the middle of 2000s when journalists uncritically repeated the claims that Saddam Hussein had WMDs and was tied to Al-Qaeda, never interested in the fact that there is no evidence of that and that the claim actually contradicts to what is known otherwise. I am sure most of those journalists did not mean harm, but the result was horrible.
As to Cenk, I only explained the fact that he is not a journalist to show why he could not differentiate between journalists and activists himself, hence chose the two that he has hired. I am not demanding that he himself would magically reformat his mentality to install scepticism in the government’s claims, but, theoretically, he could become aware of the importance of scepticism for journalists and choose journalists to hire with the use of such criteria. Scepticism is the key quality for a journalist to have so he/she would not become, even unwittingly, a propaganda tool for the most reactionary, hacky, fear/war mongering, incendiary PR from the government as the current red scare case, for example.
And, by the way, how Greenwald and Chariton are “partisan”? Never heard of them being complementary to either Republicans or Democrats. They only say positive things about parties if they are doing anything in support of transparency, freedom of speech, fight against corruption, and so one. Those are not partisan issues.
dders always flips out at anyone or any news that he/she views in anyway anti russian/putin. you gotta always remember, rest of the world bad. russia,putin and their allies good. notice as soon as it seemed like trump and putin could be allies. we started seeing in the comments dders writing “i know trump is not good,but in this instance cenk/tyt is wrong about trump in this particular story” it’s always the same with dders. russia/putin and their allies always right. now i don’t think russia is always the big bad in every situation. but they are just as corrupt as every other major government. dders has even been spouting bullshit like assad is not a criminal dictator that has no problem murdering his citizens. now wether we should be involved in the coup in syria or not is one thing. but to say he’s not a dictator that hasn’t murdered and tortured innocent civilians is an outright lie
Agreed. How about a touch of scepticism towards the Russian government and their propaganda? As somebody from a country that has a deep and troubled history with Russia, I see Putin with his attempted/successful takeover of neighbouring territories in Georgia and Ukraine and it sends a shudder down my spine… if you are geographically removed, I suppose it is much easier to give them the benefit of the doubt – if you are in their back yard, you might come to have a different take on things. They invaded half of Europe not that long ago, and it sure looks like their appetite is growing this time around. We’ve seen and lived this totalitarian dystopia, thank you very much, and wouldn’t put much of anything past them. The mood is not Germany post WW2, its more like Germany post WW1 and we all know how that turned out…
You hit the nail, my man – exactly what I was thinking. Greenwald, Taibbi, Goodman, Mike Pap – those would be some of my dream team.
I hope with all my heart she does a good job, but for the moment being, just can’t figure out how she would suddenly develop both the resourcefulness and the impartial, very critical mindset of a journalist with a difference. Cenk found an absolute diamond in the rough with Jordan. Hope he’s making the right decision, not indulging in some form of gallery play. The easy way never pays off in the long run.