Post Game: December 27, 2016

In Membership, Post Game - On Demand by Gigi Manukyan27 Comments

Cenk and Ana talk Korean Airline accidents, transgender Turkish singer, Bûlent Ersoy, Armenian celebrity gossip, and their election night reactions to Trump’s victory.

Comments

  1. Nice to hear Cenk & Ana address all of those ridiculous post-Trump election videos of them with titles suggesting how TYT (Cenk & Ana, specifically) had a “meltdown” and how much they “cried.” It’s always wonderful to see how garbage like that doesn’t phase them or how it doesn’t negatively affect their drive and desire to keep going as hard and true as they’ve always done.

    TYT is so influential and provocative, and it’s kind of amazing how threatened so many viewers and other “content creators” are by this network and the people who make it shine.

    1. Yes, it’s good. I just saw a libertarian acquaintance of mine post a video about how TYT was “collapsing”. I wonder how an organisation that has just raised half a million is “collapsing”…

  2. That was an airline industry wide problem. It was the cause of the biggest crash of all time in Tenerife back in 1977. KLM pilot had a “God” complex. Copilot saw the problem and didn’t react. They all died along with 580 more. The same thing happened in Portland back in the 1970s with an American crew. There were many more like that. Millions of dollars were spent to retrain and change the dangerous cockpit culture. Cockpits are not like that today.

  3. Beautifully articulated, Jimothy. My personal opinion is rather cynical. I think Man has had his day in the sun and failed generally to overcome his faults. Enlightenment comes to too few to effect the greed and selfishness of the greater proportion of the population. Crush the weak and the disenfranchised, excuse it with self-righteous double speak to gain power, and wealth. Religion has been debased to support this materialism. I see no solution for our redemption. I am a secularist and humanist. Sadly I once championed Man’s capacity to overcome. I simply cannot see it now. Ive moved from being a cynic to nihilist. The only question I have now is will it come quickly or slowly?
    (Anthropologist, Archaeologist, with minors in History and Philosophy. Never stop digging, learning and thinking critically. In this case, it has not helped me to see a way out.) Pax vobis cum.

  4. My mother told me ” the only thing you loose by good manners is a seat on the bus.” Not always true. I guess nothing is always true.

  5. Great Post Show :)

    I can completely empathize with Ana on her reaction to the Trump victory. I also run into the same problem when talking with persons on the right.

    In all reality Trump winning doesn’t effect me nearly as much as others. I’m a straight man in his early 30’s, I have my own small business which is tied to the energy/oil and gas industry, no debt, own my own home, I’m white, educated, well vested financially, and relatively healthy. So when I get pissed about Trumps victory, it’s not bc I will be directly impacted in a negative way. It’s bc I know that the majority of the people in our country will be negatively impacted. I worry about that teenage girl who is forced to have a child she isn’t ready for, or that transgender person who is made to feel less of a human, the intelligent kid who wants to go to college but can’t afford it, the minority who constantly has to deal with discrimination, the elderly person who is forced to work at Walmart as a greeter just to pay for their medications, etc etc.

    And why do I worry about these issues even though they don’t effect me? Bc I’m intelligent enough to know that one day that elderly person will be me, or my best friend. That girl who got pregnant to young might end up being my kids girlfriend. The minority who got discriminated against one to many times might be the one who chooses to bring a gun to my child’s school. That intelligent child who couldn’t afford college might be the one who would have cured a disease. Basically, wether we like it or not, we are all tied together. More and more it seems our nation is becoming self centered and self absorbed. In my daily interactions I have come to find that ppl have fallen in love with the sound of their own voice, and infatuated with their own views, shutting out everything else.

  6. That reaction was exactly how French people see the scandal surrounding Bill Clinton. Political scandals are very common in France, but it is viewed differently by French people. Like “It’s their personal life, why should I care if it doesn’t affect their policies?” Many presidents in France have had mistresses, affairs and once(in the case of Nicolas Sarkozy) an affair with the SON of the president…by the wife of the president. Didn’t last a week in the news in France. Just interesting to view the differences between cultures. Keep up the good work guys :) A plus tard (see you later!)

  7. 1. Sad to hear Cenk is so dismissive of Turkish culture (and, by the way, Turkish culture is much more than just a Muslim culture), blogosphere, politics, whatever else might be. It would enrich his experience and world view, help with looking at things broader, help with getting the scope of events and global cultural and geopolitical trends better than in case of just being focused on the establishment MSM bubble of NYT, Washington Post, and other corporate tools. Cenk deprives himself by not being truly fluent in Turkish; he should be able to read newspapers and magazines freely.

    But, of course, this is not a real critique since Cenk has absolutely every right to be as in touch with his Turkish roots as he wants and feels it. I am just glad that Ana gets to know her Armenian heritage better; it is making her richer, rather than in case if she would only focus on all-things American.

    2. A minor point: benches are not Christian invention, and even among Christians they are not used by the original Christian Churches, they are used by spun-off churches like Catholic and protestant churches.

    3. It is amazing how deep Cenk is under StateDep propaganda, pushed through the MSM, in regards to Russia, where nothing like what is happening in Turkey has happened; not even remotely comparable.

    1. This line about Russia being great on civil liberties and reports of Putin’s oppressive policies only being “deep StateDep propaganda” is so bizarre! Of course Russian policies on media freedom, civil liberties, and other areas are deeply troubling. Also of course the United States is not perfect, but there is a world of difference. Dissent is suppressed greatly in Russia. This has nothing to do with “StateDep propaganda.” Major nonprofit organizations devoted to civil liberties and human rights, such as Human Rights Watch and Freedom House – organizations that criticize all countries including the U.S. – agree that Russia has gone in a very dangerous direction under Putin with regard to media freedom and censorship.

      As well, Ken Roth of Human Rights Watch has done some great work sharing strong evidence that Russia has in fact committed serious wrongdoing in its Syria bombardment. Why do some liberals deny all this evidence that the current government of Russia is doing bad things?

      1. This is post, devoid of actual facts on the matter, is exactly result of StateDep propaganda on this you deny exists.

        1. Yes, of course, there are issues with civil liberties and human rights in Russia, but there is no “world of difference”, not even remotely.

        Citing “nonprofit organizations devoted to civil liberties and human rights, such as Human Rights Watch and Freedom House”, which are documented StateDep/neolib think tank pro “regime change” tools that only critique the USA once per forever to legitimate all of the rest of their narrative which is solely focused on StateDep targets, is not a good argument. They give no actual evidence to “a very dangerous direction under Putin with regard to media freedom and censorship” claim; nothing “very dangerous” happens in Russia on this issue, unlike, for example, Turkey.

        2. Also, Ken Roth of HRW has provided literally no evidence to what allegedly happens in Syria. HRW does not even have staff in Syria; the closest they are is Lebanon. So the most of what they are doing is collecting translated Tweet feeds from literal heads-chopping jihadists and compile them in reports.

        The level of bias by HRW/Roth is so brazen that anyone can see it: the alleged crimes Syria/Russia commit he calls “slaughter” and “war crimes,” but actually well-documented atrocities by the USA and allies are merely “apparently unlawful”. You can also see the level of research HRW and Amnesty International are doing: https://twitter.com/Malinka1102/status/779102764018335744 — they cite NATO/pro-regime change neolib think-thank funded “researches” as “evidence”.

        This, of course, not to say that war crimes by Syrian Army and its allied on the ground, as well as by Russia do not happen. The question is that the amount of propaganda on this that is made purely of the claims by Al-Qaeda and its clones without any independent investigation or evidence, is trough the roof.

        1. Well we disagree very strongly on this, and it really seems to me that you are willfully closing your eyes to what appears to be overwhelming evidence of Putin’s wrongdoing. This has nothing to do with any animosity for Russia, the Russian people are wonderful, but the Russian government is deeply oppressive.

          You are right that I cannot “prove” Russian oppression convincingly in this comment section, because that would take hundreds of pages of careful analysis to overcome your objections, but that analysis has been done. Interviews with minority groups and dissenters exist in abundance and testify to this reality.

          Human Rights charitable organizations do not appear to me to be operating as covert agents of the U.S. government. On many issues they differ. Human Rights Watch criticizes Israel when the U.S. government will not, and criticizes many other countries that are not priorities of the U.S. government. They also speak frequently about drone bombings, land mines, and other areas of concern in U.S. government behavior. To just dismiss them as “regime change agents” is silly.

          1. The “evidence” is so “overwhelming” that you could not bring an example.

            What happens now is you are wilfully closing your eyes on what those so-called “non-government” organizations are:

            https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/06/human-rights-watchs-revolving-door/
            Human Rights Watch’s Revolving Door: Human Rights Watch’s edicts and positions have often been suspiciously in line with US policy.

            As I mentioned before, both HRW and Amnesty International are allowed criticise the USA, but they do is very rarely and only to legitimize their main purpose: doing endless pro regime change coups/proxy wars propaganda service that is most of the time is not backed by actual evidence/independent investigation.

  8. TURKEY:

    Had Gay & Trans singers on their TV’s & radio’s (while being highly respected) since 60’s & 70’s.

    Ottoman empire decriminalized homosexuality in 1856.

    Turkey, during it’s founding in 1917 was the first country in the world to give women the right to vote (thanks Ataturk).

    In that same year, was also the most secular country in the world. First secular country in the world where the secularity was based on & for principle as opposed to practicality, since the USA & others did this since they all had different religions and couldn’t agree on one. Turkey was mostly muslim but became secular anyway. Now they are about 65-75% muslim.

    1. A good information for context.

      Couple of more additions/corrections:
      1. the voting rights for women were added later, in 193 (full universal voting rights were initially implemented in the Russian Empire, principality of Finland).
      2. only half of Turks half are really religious, and only one tenth are devoted Muslims. Turkey is not as secular as it could be because of the indoctrination through schools where pupils are exclusively made to learn Islam and due to Erdogan’s fundamentalism approach in general, but the overwhelming majority of Turks are currently supporting secularism to be kept written down in the Constitution. So the hopes are hight that the situation will stay this way.

  9. A correction on the Korean flight story: they got the crews to speak in English, so that it would avoid their use of deferential language towards their superiors.

  10. Cenk/ Anna have worked in many Islamic countries , in the Middle East it is very much marry a man for love and a women for children, in the wider Islamic countries such as Indonesia,Malaysia they too have on there media many transvestites who are popular, I suppose if you put the first with the last you may understand why aged males accept trans gender as acceptable.
    Quick one on Korea worked in SK and the men cannot handle there drink on pay day we had non drive days because there were bodies laying all over the roads, there respect for females is also non existent , I’m a runner not a fighter but I could not sit in a bar and watch a man hit a women with a full left hook and no Korean not give a s**t.

    1. the fact that you think they dont react is because they don’t give a f- shows that you don’t understand enough to do with anyones culture. in their culture it’s not normal & unexpected to get in between other peoples business much more than it is here. you also tried to brush off liberal elements of the middle east with a terrible excuse, go back to sam harris’ youtube channel and pray at the alter of this pseudo-intellectual books.

      1. Do not require Sam Harris reading material, I refer to first hand knowledge 39 countries in my working life mixing with the indigenous and related to many others, observations are just that.
        The treatment of Korean women in certain environments had nothing to do with deference but booze and social strata.
        With regard to reference to Islamic countries, I am pointing out that they are all different they treat their cultural variations much the same as we all do.

  11. Cenk/ Anna have worked in many Islamic countries , in the Middle East it is very much marry a man for love in the wider Islamic countries such as Indonesia,Malaysia they too have on there media many transvestites who are popular, I suppose if you put the first with the last you may understand why aged males accept trans gender as acceptable.
    Quick one on Korea worked in SK and the men cannot handle there drink on pay day we had non drive days because there were bodies laying all over the roads, there respect for females is also non existent , I’m a runner not a fighter but I could not sit in a bar and watch a man hit a women with a full left hook and no Korean not give a s**t.

  12. Great post game today! Thanks, Cenk and Ana.
    I thought “Tangerine” was an awesome movie. The last scene was so moving and lovely. Humanity, love, and compassion shown in a very incongruous setting. At least incongruous to me, I’m from the suburbs of Columbus, OH. Don’t worry, I won’t do a full review. Loved the fact it was filmed on a phone. So cool.

  13. here are a few things i’ve thought about since Trump won the election:
    (1) his likeness either will or may be on currency — isn’t that funny?!
    (2) he has a building to develop — the Trump Presidential Library
    (3) that HUGE, tacky portrait of himself? well, he’ll be painted by an official portrait painter and hung up in the White House for posterity, so he’ll always have a portrait where he can visit (including all the portraits at his Trump Library). hey, Donald, lose that tacky picture; you’re going to get the royal treatment, American style!
    (4) he’s now going to be in every history book and every library throughout the history of the U.S. yes, folks, as long as we’re a country, he’s one of our historical figures to be studied.
    (5) there will be books, movies, and other forms of entertainment created about President Trump; he will pervade society.
    just a few thoughts that came to mind. i’m sure there are other ugly truths regarding the fact of this presidency. mayhap a holiday on June 14th, Trump’s birthday? we could all go to one of his casinos and gamble the day away.

  14. Trump’s policy trend towards privatization is so harmful to the American public. they are already burdened under the monopolies created by the privatization of the electricity, broadband spectrum, and telecommunications. education and social security privatization will impoverish the elderly and the socially disadvantaged more, making re-creation of the systems next to impossible and backlog the progress of the American populous for generations if not addressed. we are not a time in our human history where we can step backwards, we face social collapse through the systemic greed and resource hoarding that has destroyed countless civilizations in our past. we don’t learn, we repeat and it’s killing our children’s potential to live.

    1. People wanted change from the status quo. Change comes in many disguises but usually devastating results that then lead to reconstruction or some form of renewal. When we look through history at the collapse of a civilization it is usually paired with economic failure, famine, war and natural events that bring disasters. Climate Change, the grasping for resources, violence due to social upheaval, and economic failure of our societal foundations, could well be the swan song for what we have known as modern culture. Clearly our vision of Democracy, never what we thought it was really, is under the threat of dying into a sham system of plutocracy under an Oligarch, or worse a theocracy draped in the flag and paraded about by fascists. We are on the brink of change, no doubt about it. And what was once the property of science fiction may now be a dark dystopian future. So people wanted change, and here it is. Be careful what you wish for. You may get it.

      1. I agree, the signs of incoming economic collapse is foreshadowed in how innovation removes jobs and concentrates wealth, an extrapolation of that trend is just a huge impoverished population with no means for vertical mobility. as innovation increases just as moore’s law dictates, the opportunity to contribute is gone, thus propelling one to a better life standing. there will be no future worth living until we understand the ownership and money are no longer needed and that resources are better shared. the purchasing power of the middle class is leaving as the jobs are, and social redistribution isn’t going to deliver the economic motor needed to prop up a middle class. America in particular was never a democracy and the indoctrination of nationalism has veiled the populous from the reality. I think this plateau we are approaching is the real cause of the Femi paradox, when intelligent life doesn’t overcome it’s selfish ways to continue on together, instead they kill themselves for resources once they realized they’ve squandered most of them and their planet.

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