Dave Koller chats with Dan from the Internet about Milo Yiannopoulos speaking at Berkeley, and Matt Yglesias from Vox. Gigi Manukyan joins Dave to discuss the exploitations of NGOs. Dec 23, 2016.
(about the NGOs)
It’s not just an attitude, it’s not just about white saviorism in the minds of people, it’s not just about a technicality in the honesty of fund distribution. The charity NGO problem materializes in the fact that “humanitarianism” is centered around reducing the idea of humanity (of certain people) to food, water, shelter, and maybe a place to shit, with nothing else, no mobility or ability to contact family members. These people end up indefinitely detained in camps. The name “humanitarian camp” is a sickening oxymoron in many cases—there are even accounts of people in these camps voluntarily turning themselves in for crimes they didn’t commit because at least in the local prisons they would have family visiting rights, and in any case they’re preemptively criminalized as a matter of policy.
The part (the frame) that wasn’t mentioned is that these NGOs constitute a whole limb of the greater issue of capitalist colonialism and border imperialism, it’s not just that people on the ground have a harmful ideology. On the one hand you have a collaboration of transnationals and state governments; the police/militaries on the street in these places are there explicitly to guarantee the safety of capital at whatever expense to the local people. “First world” governments give subsidies, provide protection, and lift border restrictions to ensure the fluid mobility of capital, while indefinitely militarizing and clamping down on the mobility of people (many of whom are displaced as a direct consequence of the manufactured movement of that capital) both across and within those borders. Food shortages, water crises, disease, the incapacity to rebuild infrastructure after natural disasters etc are not incidental phenomena, they’re direct consequences of “Western” societies and their organizations. It’s not “minus the killing part;” the people in all these countries are being killed in the daily routine of being the “former” colonies, let alone in the crisis that they need “aid” from, which invariably have much to do with governments whose compositions have been manipulated by the Western governments as well as with transnational business interests… whose consumption base is in these white-people countries where the citizens feel guilty enough to donate their money. This guilt is real, it speaks to a real history of several centuries of a consistent pattern of colonialist violence, manipulation, and exploitation, glossed as “Western,” that no one on this planet can claim to be outside of. [By the way, this whole radically individualistic impulse to evade accountability for slavery, genocide, colonialism etc because we specifically didn’t pull any triggers is easy because it’s designed to be that easy; this is how bureaucratic systems work to do evil for so long, by degrees of separation–what’s important is that we’re all immersed in our involvement as beneficiaries of those moral atrocities]. What’s important to realize about “white saviorism” is that its mission is to dissolve feelings of guilt or implication in favor of a happy image of “helping poor people in need”—the fact that the reason for these colonized peoples’ desperation is manifest in every detail of Western society is covered by a warm blanket of self-congratulation. So now the guilty-feeling and surplus-resourced people who feel motivated in some way to help “solve the problem” (in reality trying to ameliorate just the symptoms of the problem) think “mission accomplished,” and proceed unquestioningly to living their lives as part of the problem.
The greater “macro issue” here is that both the nation-state system of politics and capitalism rely on creating and maintaining underclasses of people in order to function. What we’re seeing here is the result of hundreds of years of churning of these various systems of categorizing people, most of which are directly imposed by Western imperial powers, and not least of which are the nation-state system itself and ideas about property/borders. What’s the difference between a citizen and a human being? The “refugee” is basically the person who has no belonging to, or protection by, a nation-state, and for that reason is categorically criminalized merely for being alive in a space and is subjected to the worst experiences and conditions. But this is not a fluke, it’s not bad people misusing tools of governance, this is a fundamental consequence of the foundational premises of our system. So the imposition of distinctly European/Western notions of legitimacy and other social, political, and economic structures is responsible for this unmanageable outsiderness to begin with (the only “solution” is to naturalize these people as citizens of another nation-state), not to mention the violent and unimaginably suffocating reactions to it. What charities/NGOs do is to occlude the real problem by confusing the symptoms with the diagnosis—it’s as if the task were to buy as much gauze as possible for this dude to wipe blood off the chin of someone with internal bleeding, and in the meantime everyone else just sees a doctor doing his thing and ceases to investigate the problem.
(And all that is in addition/related to what Gigi was trying to say, I think, which is that even the delivery of “aid” often takes the form of—if not lining their pockets—giving sustenance to white people on a charity mission instead of directly to the local people/organizations who are actually doing what groups like the Red Cross purport to do, but much more effectively and without that money being funneled back to “first world” hands.)
Also, Dave, as somebody recently up to my neck in academia or however you put it, I’d love to talk to you about some of the disagreements/problems I have with Cenk and the show, if you’re interested.
Gigi: No, you’re not incompetent. But you may want to bring your paper next time. ;) Koller’s not wrong to ask hard questions – but it’s natural that you feel put on the spot. I hope you trust the audience enough to know we won’t be too hard on you. (and ignore the people who are.)
There’s no shame in being a little unsteady when you’re asked probing questions, and sure, it’d have been easier for you to make a case if you had prepared examples and whatnot, but the fact that Koller’s questions were pretty incisive doesn’t mean you come off looking bad.
I think it was lovely hearing your perspective, and you raised interesting questions and concerns, and Koller provided necessary scepticism, the kind he’s a veteran expert in providing.
So don’t hesitate to get back on air whenever you can.
By the way, you should’ve seen Ana in her early days – bright as all hell, but not always too prepared to get challenged by people twice her age. :)
P.S. I have a little bit of a crush, but that’s just because I’m pretty socially isolated.
Emil
Please do not conflate American Red Cross withInternational Red Cross. Your presenter was not prepared to give evidence of her view point on NGOs. I agree about the religious NGOs example for some NGOs. Thanks Dave for pushing back.
The Iowa Republican Chuck Grassley found “substantial and fundamental concerns” in the Red Cross, he concluded at the end of a 309-page report. His Senate commission investigation was prompted by a 2015 ProPublica and NPR report in which said the Red Cross had built only six homes in Haiti despite having received $488m from donors.”
Happy holidays (:
I wrote you a few words of encouragement on this page. I would’ve replied to your post, but I think we were commenting simultaneously. Anyway, I hope you’ll read my other comment.
1. For context: the famous Hillary Foundation only leaves about 15% of its endowment to actual charity after the expenses of hosting the Clinton clan political operatives on the payroll and its other expenses.
2. In Syria, Red Crescent is more in charge than Red Cross.
3. the guy that David invited conflates alt-right with neo-Nazis (“1488”, Richard Spencer’s white supremacists), what white-washes the latter (though I am sure he did not mean it).
4. Finally, if possible, can you please give a word to Cenk or whoever was responsible for the “messaging” about it? I personally think the fundraising would go much faster if the video stream would almost always show “Help TYT to hire more investigating teams: TYTnetwork.com/go”, maybe with “just $X left for the first team to land!” during live video streams. Otherwise the majority of views who are not attentive enough do not really grasp what the “go” is about, why they should go there, what the goal is. The messaging should have been much more overt than how it was done. Also, the videos on YouTube should also have the same inscriptions right in the video, not just the occasional “TYTnetwork.com/go” appearances.
Last, but not least: sorry if I am doing anything wrong, but I have to say it: you look like an Armenian queen! :)
Comments
Dan the Goat. Great perspective. Bring him back.
Check out Dan the Goat’s Facebook page Dan from the Internet and share his fucking incredible commentary vids!!
Dan is awesome
DAVE KOLLER I GOT SOMETHIN FOR YOU
(about the NGOs)
It’s not just an attitude, it’s not just about white saviorism in the minds of people, it’s not just about a technicality in the honesty of fund distribution. The charity NGO problem materializes in the fact that “humanitarianism” is centered around reducing the idea of humanity (of certain people) to food, water, shelter, and maybe a place to shit, with nothing else, no mobility or ability to contact family members. These people end up indefinitely detained in camps. The name “humanitarian camp” is a sickening oxymoron in many cases—there are even accounts of people in these camps voluntarily turning themselves in for crimes they didn’t commit because at least in the local prisons they would have family visiting rights, and in any case they’re preemptively criminalized as a matter of policy.
The part (the frame) that wasn’t mentioned is that these NGOs constitute a whole limb of the greater issue of capitalist colonialism and border imperialism, it’s not just that people on the ground have a harmful ideology. On the one hand you have a collaboration of transnationals and state governments; the police/militaries on the street in these places are there explicitly to guarantee the safety of capital at whatever expense to the local people. “First world” governments give subsidies, provide protection, and lift border restrictions to ensure the fluid mobility of capital, while indefinitely militarizing and clamping down on the mobility of people (many of whom are displaced as a direct consequence of the manufactured movement of that capital) both across and within those borders. Food shortages, water crises, disease, the incapacity to rebuild infrastructure after natural disasters etc are not incidental phenomena, they’re direct consequences of “Western” societies and their organizations. It’s not “minus the killing part;” the people in all these countries are being killed in the daily routine of being the “former” colonies, let alone in the crisis that they need “aid” from, which invariably have much to do with governments whose compositions have been manipulated by the Western governments as well as with transnational business interests… whose consumption base is in these white-people countries where the citizens feel guilty enough to donate their money. This guilt is real, it speaks to a real history of several centuries of a consistent pattern of colonialist violence, manipulation, and exploitation, glossed as “Western,” that no one on this planet can claim to be outside of. [By the way, this whole radically individualistic impulse to evade accountability for slavery, genocide, colonialism etc because we specifically didn’t pull any triggers is easy because it’s designed to be that easy; this is how bureaucratic systems work to do evil for so long, by degrees of separation–what’s important is that we’re all immersed in our involvement as beneficiaries of those moral atrocities]. What’s important to realize about “white saviorism” is that its mission is to dissolve feelings of guilt or implication in favor of a happy image of “helping poor people in need”—the fact that the reason for these colonized peoples’ desperation is manifest in every detail of Western society is covered by a warm blanket of self-congratulation. So now the guilty-feeling and surplus-resourced people who feel motivated in some way to help “solve the problem” (in reality trying to ameliorate just the symptoms of the problem) think “mission accomplished,” and proceed unquestioningly to living their lives as part of the problem.
The greater “macro issue” here is that both the nation-state system of politics and capitalism rely on creating and maintaining underclasses of people in order to function. What we’re seeing here is the result of hundreds of years of churning of these various systems of categorizing people, most of which are directly imposed by Western imperial powers, and not least of which are the nation-state system itself and ideas about property/borders. What’s the difference between a citizen and a human being? The “refugee” is basically the person who has no belonging to, or protection by, a nation-state, and for that reason is categorically criminalized merely for being alive in a space and is subjected to the worst experiences and conditions. But this is not a fluke, it’s not bad people misusing tools of governance, this is a fundamental consequence of the foundational premises of our system. So the imposition of distinctly European/Western notions of legitimacy and other social, political, and economic structures is responsible for this unmanageable outsiderness to begin with (the only “solution” is to naturalize these people as citizens of another nation-state), not to mention the violent and unimaginably suffocating reactions to it. What charities/NGOs do is to occlude the real problem by confusing the symptoms with the diagnosis—it’s as if the task were to buy as much gauze as possible for this dude to wipe blood off the chin of someone with internal bleeding, and in the meantime everyone else just sees a doctor doing his thing and ceases to investigate the problem.
(And all that is in addition/related to what Gigi was trying to say, I think, which is that even the delivery of “aid” often takes the form of—if not lining their pockets—giving sustenance to white people on a charity mission instead of directly to the local people/organizations who are actually doing what groups like the Red Cross purport to do, but much more effectively and without that money being funneled back to “first world” hands.)
Also, Dave, as somebody recently up to my neck in academia or however you put it, I’d love to talk to you about some of the disagreements/problems I have with Cenk and the show, if you’re interested.
Dave, I would have donated if I were watching this hour live :-)
(I have donated!)
OMG this hr was a snooze fest. didn’t make it through the hole thing.
The “Women in Rock” graphing paper from 2000 – I almost fell off my chair laughing. Dave is the best!
Wrong, University of Michigan is the #1 Public University in the World! GO BLUE!
Gigi: No, you’re not incompetent. But you may want to bring your paper next time. ;) Koller’s not wrong to ask hard questions – but it’s natural that you feel put on the spot. I hope you trust the audience enough to know we won’t be too hard on you. (and ignore the people who are.)
There’s no shame in being a little unsteady when you’re asked probing questions, and sure, it’d have been easier for you to make a case if you had prepared examples and whatnot, but the fact that Koller’s questions were pretty incisive doesn’t mean you come off looking bad.
I think it was lovely hearing your perspective, and you raised interesting questions and concerns, and Koller provided necessary scepticism, the kind he’s a veteran expert in providing.
So don’t hesitate to get back on air whenever you can.
By the way, you should’ve seen Ana in her early days – bright as all hell, but not always too prepared to get challenged by people twice her age. :)
P.S. I have a little bit of a crush, but that’s just because I’m pretty socially isolated.
Emil
Please do not conflate American Red Cross withInternational Red Cross. Your presenter was not prepared to give evidence of her view point on NGOs. I agree about the religious NGOs example for some NGOs. Thanks Dave for pushing back.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2016/jun/19/chuck-grassley-american-red-cross-haiti-aid-money
“A scathing report released by a senator this week found that the American Red Cross spent about $125m in donor money for Haiti aid on fundraising, management and other expenses, and that officials refused to cooperate with investigators.
The Iowa Republican Chuck Grassley found “substantial and fundamental concerns” in the Red Cross, he concluded at the end of a 309-page report. His Senate commission investigation was prompted by a 2015 ProPublica and NPR report in which said the Red Cross had built only six homes in Haiti despite having received $488m from donors.”
Happy holidays (:
I wrote you a few words of encouragement on this page. I would’ve replied to your post, but I think we were commenting simultaneously. Anyway, I hope you’ll read my other comment.
Merry happydays. ;)
1. For context: the famous Hillary Foundation only leaves about 15% of its endowment to actual charity after the expenses of hosting the Clinton clan political operatives on the payroll and its other expenses.
2. In Syria, Red Crescent is more in charge than Red Cross.
3. the guy that David invited conflates alt-right with neo-Nazis (“1488”, Richard Spencer’s white supremacists), what white-washes the latter (though I am sure he did not mean it).
4. Finally, if possible, can you please give a word to Cenk or whoever was responsible for the “messaging” about it? I personally think the fundraising would go much faster if the video stream would almost always show “Help TYT to hire more investigating teams: TYTnetwork.com/go”, maybe with “just $X left for the first team to land!” during live video streams. Otherwise the majority of views who are not attentive enough do not really grasp what the “go” is about, why they should go there, what the goal is. The messaging should have been much more overt than how it was done. Also, the videos on YouTube should also have the same inscriptions right in the video, not just the occasional “TYTnetwork.com/go” appearances.
Last, but not least: sorry if I am doing anything wrong, but I have to say it: you look like an Armenian queen! :)
Hi Gigi: I heard Dave was planning to have you on possibly this week’s Friday PG to restate your case against the Red Cross. Please check out: https://majority.fm/2015/07/13/713-justin-elliott-how-the-red-cross-raised-a-billion-dollars-for-haiti-built-six-homes-for-members-only-bernie-sanders/
or Justin Elliot’s original investigative report, or perhaps contact him (your first TYT interview?)