Electors who don’t want to vote for Trump should vote for Hillary Clinton. And their reason should be: “When the popular vote is so far out of line with the electoral college results, it’s my duty to vote for the person who won the popular vote.”
I think when the popular vote is more than 2 million votes in favor of a candidate, that’s sufficient reason for electors to ratify it in the electoral college.
As a Brit who has worked in the oil & gas industry for over 40 years in over 39 countries , we learned pretty quickly that although the USA had over half a century of so called expertise they are garbage at the front end.
We and other Europeans developed the technology for the difficult extractions then the money men moved in and the engineers sidelined then you finished up with BP horizon blaming the Oil Companies instead of the century of Cowboys in the industry.
The Alaskan pipeline welded together flat faced with capping only no preheat or XRay multiple shots on one complete weld.
Even the Lendlease shipping that we Brits finally paid for in the mid seventies were cowboy end and more ships split in two than sunk by German U boats.
Technologically the Us is kept going by foreign technology expertise and the petro $ you have an archaic infrastructure that those who have a passport would understand, however to end on a goog note as somebody who has worked and travelled in over 40 states I have never met anywhere more pleasant,friendly although sometimes naive people on all my travels.
Sorry for any offence not intended.
Trevor- COMPLETELY AGREE! Which is why big oil in Texas cares greatly for their work visas. Here in Houston, we have more upper management foreigners in our Oil and Gas industry than Americans. The Dutch and English (UK) specifically have HUGE influence here. So these kids going to college for an engineering job have an extremely hard time finding anything more than an entry lvl job after college. In the energy corridor specifically you can’t walk in a bar without meeting numerous persons from the U.K. Or The Netherlands. Which is kinda cool for me bc I’m first generation American. My parents are both Dutch. My mother became a technical Liberian for oil and gas companies and my step father learned a trade and started a small business. My bio dad was German and became a citizen by joining the air force as a MP.
If anyone cares, update on the blue collar worker in an energy city/state.
Background- I live in Houston Texas and have a small business related to the energy industry. Specifically, I am a machinist who resharpens carbide tools by hand. A dying trade that was passed down to me. Myself and my family are progressives working with BRIGHT red Repubs on a daily basis.
The update- Literally 1 week after the Election results my business has seen a HUGE increase in work. The companies we do work for seem to be back to the Bush days concerning productivity. Which in turn means that Calpine (HUGE energy company) is either receiving more contracts or preparing to receive them. Typically December is a very slow month and so far I have literally been working every day, 10-12 hours a day. Our customers are working 24/7 and their shop guys are loving the overtime. Some are even starting to hire people back that were fired during the oil drop. Every day I visit a shop to pick up more work the employees praise Trump and point to their 12 hr work days as proof that he will be great for the US. The energy corridor in Houston is also seeing a slight uptick in hiring.
My point- As sad as it is, the average blue collar person in Texas is already seeing benefits with Trump. No matter the fact that they get mediocre pay and are forced to work overtime just to reach a living wage. No matter the fact that next year insurance prices in Texas will be rising. My monthly insurance costs for 2016 was 300 a month, for 2017 it is going to 500 for shit coverage. So basically, from what I am seeing, the blue collar shop worker in Texas doesn’t give a shit about the environment, what Trump says, who Trump appoints, what family member of his runs what, etc. They care about their paycheck, and right now, it’s looking better. Its not that they don’t care about the long term effects of climate change, or racism, or anything like that. Its that they see in short term. Can I pay my bills? Can I afford my rent? Can I feed my kids? Etc. So with all this in mind, I find it extremely hard to make a progressive argument to anyone that I come into contact with. Short term thinking is what keeps/put the Repubs in power and as a progressive, I haven’t been able to find an argument to combat that. Deep down they know they are voting to literally rape the planet, but as they see it, they gots bills to pay and those are the jobs available. As I sit around and debate with my Repub friends they always go back to one saying, “We can’t all live in California or New York. I’m not going to vote to put myself out of work.”
As mad as anyone might be reading the above, doesn’t change the reality of blue collar shop worker.
That’s a GREAT point. What I wonder is…once inflation sets in (feds raising interest rates, global trade slowing down) and their wages stay stagnant will your co-workers start to scratch their heads?
Awesome… I’m right next door to you in Louisiana. This is all Big Oil/OPEC’s doing… It is starting to seem staged where republican top dogs get OPEC to drop oil prices around a year before an election then blame it on democrats. I don’t understand why the oil field people don’t just abandon this industry for being so dependent on what OPEC decides. It’s going to happen again. It’s a cycle that people make billions off of. My brother started a machine shop that had to close because of this. It’s not only been hard financially on him and his family, but the stress he has endured can’t be good for him.
Cenk and John, the Aleppo segments have been awful. SAA controlled Aleppo has been under constant bombardment (e.g. Hell cannons) for 4 years, and there is little coverage of the civilians suffering and death. Some balance in coverage would be appreciated. I shed no tears for the defeat of the salafists.
Also, the lives of the people under rebel control is covered very little by Western media. The oppression of minorities by the rebels is something I would think the West would be eager to cover and alleviate.
The lives of the average person in a country sponsored by and partnered with SA, UAE, Qatar versus a country run by Assad and Iran is not even comparable. The US and its allies in the EU are on the wrong side here.
you would think it is something the west would cover. that’s is your mistake… there is no west any more, the direction you are pointing in is corporate and when you refer to the west as corporate then all the decisions that confuse you make sense, because it is not coming from the PEOPLE of the west. America has fallen to idiocrity (spoiled and uneducated) and bedazzlement (media drama). I’m trying my friend, but I think the only way we get anywhere is to abandon the 3 religions, and for those that feel the need, build a new one together. Until we teach our children that NO ONE knows what happens after death then we will have religious based murder. Let me rephrase that: As long as we brainwash our kids with fear to be good then someone will be brainwashing a child with fear to do something bad.
The Aleppo piece was VERY disappointing; I almost had to turn it off because I’ve heard it all before from typical MSM propaganda mouthpieces. I’m glad to see that so many folks here have already called Cenk and John out for this segment. Nobody involved in this conflict is blameless, but supporting the self-righteous condemnations from some of the world’s worst war crime enablers is shoddy journalism and weak analysis.
Im glad there has been some push back because TYT’s coverage of foreign affairs is laughable most of the time . But look at some of the comments of individuals who deem the people pushing back as ” pro russian” that is the same narrative that can be observed on twitter/ facebook / media as a whole.
If people are not looking at this whole issue with highly skeptical eyes and at the very least waiting until the dust settles to begin condemning/alleging/ pushing allegations against certain states than sadly you have been brainwashed. Forget your bias there is very little certifiable evidence right now, that is the worrying thing. when you have people like Cenk/ John who are supposed to be giving us the news but they are taking whatever NYT , Washpro publish as pretty much fact it really speaks to how truly “independent” TYT really is. you cant call and sell your self as the independent media when in vital stories like these your narrative is exactly the same as the corporate media.
The issue is some TYT members who whenever they are presented with a differing narrative or presented with an opinion that doesn’t fit their easy anti complex world view they lash out. And really thats the issue with many liberals who think just because they support certain good issues/ policies/ etc they can turn of their brains and then just engulf themselves with whatever media narrative they are fed. Do research ! look at other sources outside MSM liberal outlets which TYT parrots in foreign affairs . Then come and lets all have a discussion instead of calling certain users here as Russian cock puppets.
seriously basically every other independent media outlet has had a more nuanced coverage of this issue than TYT who has a much bigger platform. Why dont TYT go try and get EVA BARTLETT ( independent – anti MSM Journalist ) you would think she would fit perfectly with what TYT is about. Why dont TYT at the very least get progressives who cover the middle east to talk about these issues? Its clear Johns knowledge of geo politics is at best below average. Cenk has better understanding but somehow he often comes to rather (excuse my language) idiotic conclusions . He supported the push towards conflict against Libya a devastating mistake that could be seen by anyone following the situation with Libya and its neighbors over the last decade. I mean really i implore all to do some research on that conflict and look how the west and Gaddafi interacted over the decade before that issue. but even with info easily accessible cenk still came to a conclusion that was devastating to all the humans in that region.
I say all this because TYT has proven they have dont have even a little clear /concise understanding of foreign affairs why not bring someone in? It truly is puzzling because i am almost certain that many syria/ russia/ Middle progressive experts would in an instant jump at the chance of getting on a platform like TYT . They go on Democracy Now pretty often , and even lesser known outlets almost daily.
As members we should demand better from TYT its clear that in certain ways TYT is below average. We should all be demanding more in depth segments , interviews with experts , provide more than just the MSM narrative. That is what Independent media is about!
In defense of people who “turn off their brains”: I totally understand. I’m nearly 50 now, and I still catch myself every day wanting to believe the mainstream media that have been squawking at me all these years. (They seem so legitimate because they own the airwaves and they look all authoritative, confident, beautiful and smart!) I can’t fault others for being at a different point in their journey toward clarity about mainstream news sources. The best we can do is continue to call people out when they fail to see the misdirection, incomplete reporting and lies that the mainstream churns out every day.
TYT needs to avoid doing segments on topics like Syria. Especially when you are only parroting what other (mainly Western) news sources are saying. Unless you have reporters and anchors with access to primary sources and/or a lot of knowledge about and on-the-ground, firsthand experience with the history (political and otherwise) on a topic, avoid.
Democracy Now is great about bringing on primary and legitimate secondary sources for live interviews, and those being interviewed often talk with and among each other to explore different facets of a topic.
Phyllis Bennis often gives a totally non-MSM way of looking at a ME topic because she has spent her life studying and teaching about it. Col Andrew Bacevich is a non-MSM fountain of refreshing (and sometimes disturbing) thought b/c he is not only a retired colonal, but lost his son in the first Iraq conflict, and he is also a military historian who also teachers on the topic.
Maybe others here can recommend some other researchers and experts to consider listening to. Tariq Ali, John Pilger, and anyone working for The Intercept… Also, Iona Craig re Yemen.
I would be interested in reading other recommended sources from TYT members…
TYT needs to avoid doing segments on topics like Syria. Especially when you are only parroting what other (mainly Western) news sources are saying. Unless you have reporters and anchors with access to primary sources and/or a lot of knowledge about and on-the-ground, firsthand experience with the history (political and otherwise) on a topic, avoid.
Democracy Now is great about bringing on primary and legitimate secondary sources for live interviews, and those being interviewed often talk with and among each other to explore different facets of a topic.
Phyllis Bennis often gives a totally non-MSM way of looking at a ME topic because she has spent her life studying and teaching about it. Col Andrew Bacevich is a non-MSM fountain of refreshing (and sometimes disturbing) thought b/c he is not only a retired colonal, but lost his son in the first Iraq conflict, and he is also a military historian who also teachers on the topic.
Maybe others here can recommend some other researchers and experts to consider listening to. Tariq Ali, John Pilger, and anyone working for The Intercept… Also, Iona Craig re Yemen.
I would be interested in reading other recommended sources from TYT members…
Don’t get sidetracked people. No point in arguing about verifying what you hear, that’s obvious. Pointing out what TYT is missing is EXACTLY what we should be doing. I think there is far too much name calling in the reporting. I don’t need to hear that someone is dumb or stupid or a loser, and ESPECIALLY more than once. I know i’m far from the norm so I accept that most people may like that, and it pulls viewers in ( I guess), but ultimately it’s attracting attention to something in a negative way. It’s sad to me that so many humans respond to that. One of the hardest things in raising my son (8) is teaching him about overcoming negativity when things don’t go his way. It’s seems like it’s genetically hard coded into him… (just like my fkn father n law).. But hey! I’m getting a TYT shirt. Can’t wait to piss off all the oil industry zombies here, or as I like to call them SAB’s… Saudie Arabian Bitches (since their entire lives are hanging on the thread of what SA decides the price of a barrel of oil will be). Here is something to research… Does the recent price hike in oil do anything to benefit/stall/incentivize the investors in Dakota Pipeline? I know anything that will boost the oil industry here will bode well in support for the DP when Trump comes out and says it’s necessary to benefit from the increase in oil prices. PLAY CHESS!
Great point …
No one wants to be on the side of DAPL right now.
But then oil prices spike, and the uninformed say, “Hey, it may be bad, but we need DAPL so that prices will go down again.” And Trump can bluster allover the place that he is backing DAPL so that hard-working Americans can have cheaper fuel.
Never-mind that the fucking pipeline is already leaking from a 6″ pipe, wait until it is a 30″ one.
People need to keep saying over and over that all these pipelines & oil rigs DO NOT belong to the US!
The oil IS NOT staying in the US. It is on the world market.
YES!!! you just provided a great example of how it can go either way. prices up / prices down, it can all be angled and promoted to create opinion amongst the uninformed. Poll the public’s desperation, then angle an event like a price hike to pull favor toward the pipeline. disgusting :(
I see it as a win-win. Prices are low – great, people are gouged less for their energy needs, and less of it is going to petrol states. Oil prices going up – more investment in renewables, because it’s high time humanity moved on to something better. Burning oil for eletricity is such a bad idea. Save it for medicine, for making products, etc.
I think the REAL reason some Republicans are unhappy with Trump (as Clintoncrat Neo-Libs hate Bernie) is not entirely because Trump is a madman that they can’t control.
The reason DC is frantic & pissed about Trump is not only that he has pulled the curtain back on their pay-to-play system. Trump also takes away any facade that being a federal level US senator or representative is an institution that needs to be, at least in polite company, RESPECTED.
They are like the police in this. The WORST thing you can do is disrespect a cop.
Trump is shitting allover their “honorable gentlemen & women” persona.
They CANNOT hide! He’s pay-to-play on steroids!
Oh, politicians passing cash & doing deals without the cameras on? Completely accepted & normal.
Trump is in the spotlight, taking his tiny hands and rubbing his tiny package allover their legalized bribery.
If this was a special edition of Survivor, Trump would be totally “winning.”
Unfortunately, this is ACTUAL reality.
Since I have dyslexia that gets worse when I am tired, I butcher my texts severely, and with this comment system not allowing edits they stay that way forever; horrible. So I am re-posting a cleaner version:
The segment on Aleppo is ANOTHER ORWELLIAN PROPAGANDA piece (though, as always, I am not saying it is intentional on Cenk/John’s part, it is just all they have is Western media):
1. No “mass executions” and “mass suicides” are happening, no evidence of that, no confirmation, only claims by jihadists that West/Saudis/Qatari/Turkey fund and arm,
2. John continues to quote statements from Al-Qaeda/its clones. They are literal terrorists, including the CIA-vetted and armed Al-Zenki gang that ON CAMERA have beheaded a child and tortured another. CNN went so insane that they interviewed Bilal Kareem, Al-Qaeda publicist, get their “news”,
3. Russia has stopped bombing Aleppo since September already. Russia does not have ground troops there either, so Cenk attributing whatever claimed on Russia is absurd. Obama is already killing terrorists’ families, even if they are US citizens, even if they are 16 year olds; and all that without a trial;
4. Syria has carried already dozens of such “peace deals” with “rebels” being evacuated to Idlib province from their previously-held territories. Why would they want to all of sudden start to “kill civilians”, if pro-government forces, as per the deals, do not attack even “rebels”?
5. The civilians have been used as a human shield by the jihadists, this is what people who evacuate from Aleppo say ON CAMERA even to AFP and CNN, the “historical evil” is done by the terrorists,
6. Turkey is an “ally”? They backs the jihadists (including Daesh/ISIS) all the way through, not just random “Sunnis”. Actual Sunnis condemned Wahhabi/Salafi perversion of Islam in their religious conferences;
7. The medal T-Rex oil StateDep guy received has thousands of other recipients, including many other Americans. Why Cenk talks about it? Are they all Putin’s agents? What is with this neo-MacCarthyite framing? On the other hand, there is evidence (videos) of thousands of civilians evacuated from Aleppo peacefully, but, of course, the media do not report what is actually happening.
it wasn’t that bad. It was clear enough for me understand, and therefore I am able to fact check it all. What a waste of time… fact checking the facts, then fact checking the fact checking, wtf!!! This is so uncomplicated, and it’s complicated intentionally so that chaos is the outcome from which a fountain of profit thus pours… ridiculous. Everyone’s role outside of this kind of conflict (Syria) should simply be rescue and let the people that want to fight it out, fight it out. The people that want out, let’s get them out, I’ll put boots on the ground if their sole purpose is to get people out if they don’t want to be there. Intervention will not change the aspirations to destroy each other, only experiencing the devastation of those aspirations will change their hearts. It’s their own social evolution.
Your comments are very interesting and informative. You obviously work hard on them.
Given your dyslexia, they are especially impressive.
WRT editing: I do mine before hitting Submit. Depending on my degree of exhaustion , haste, or passion, that may take even 3 or 4 re-reads. Still…perfection sometimes isn’t there.
My guess as to why TYT doesn’t offer the option to edit after submission could be that anyone
might then be able to change others’ comments. Maybe they could work out a change in their
system where your name would open ONLY your submission for alteration. I dunno. Maybe.
Well, appreciating your frustration…now I’ll review this a couple times.
Cenk news from the UK is that the US is allowing ISIS to leave enclaves in N/E Iraq to attack Palmyra in Syria. The truth is all governments are lying to suit there own agenda, this does not excuse the slaughter but nobody deserves a free ride on this our Bernie in UK Corbyn had it right don’t get involved in the war only in the peace talks !
Snowden-exposed NSA troll army soldiers are on attack today?
But, seriously, which part of my critiques is “disinformation”? Pointing at the fact that there is no evidence of the key claims that the Aleppo segment is based on?
Were you among those who rooted for the Iraq war because Saddam had WMDs and did 9/11, you just in love with the establishment/government claims and perceives any and all of them as truth without evidence?
Or are you just a xenophobe and bigot, and your only difference from Trump supporters in this regard is that you have replaced a religion with nationality?
Refreshing to see someone else recognises this pro-Putin agent provocateur for what he/she is.
There’s no question that the US has and continues to make “highly questionable” foreign policy decisions, but to be such a blanket apologist for the current Russian policy of neo-imperial involvements and entanglements is nauseating: “US, bad; Russia, good” gets kinda boring after the first several hundred times…
I can see it now: The Apprentice – White House edition. Trump has corporate/celebrity/republicans compete to win a cabinet position. Each week the contestants have to meet the challenge which always pertains to a Trump business or interest, including being present and filming security clearance required meetings. It would be the “conflict challenge of the week.”
Russia hacking the DNC and releasing the data to Wikileaks and allegedly hacking the RNC but not leaking that data reeks to high hell. I just fear our March towards authoritarianism and fascism. I voted for Bernie Sanders in the primary, and HRC in the general. I wasn’t confident in my abilities to fight fascism, and now that we lost to Trumpism I am doing everything that I can to fight fascism.
The level of proof that the hacking was done by the Russian government is truly epic. The phishing mail to Podesta came from Ukraine. But Ukraine is almost Russia. And Russia is almost the same as the Russian government/FSB-GRU special hacking forces. And the DNC hack’s “evidence” is also amazing. Some of the documents are signed as “Felix Edmundovich”, who was the founder of the KGB/FSB’s predecessor. It’s like believing CIA spies would go hacking in Russia using the nome de guerre “Allen Dulles”.
The “evidence” is so ridiculous that they understood that they can not claim it was GRU’s special hacking forces any more (as they did initially), so now they made “one step away” (meaning it was not FSB’s hacking teams any more, but “middlemen”) excuse to still blame the hacks on the Russian government with literally zero actual evidence.
On electors’ segment: Hillary has DOCUMENTED financial influence from foreign governments such as Wahhabi/Salafi terrorist tyrannies like the kingdom of Saudi Arabia (KSA) and Qatar, both are among the top sponsors of the Clinton Foundation, let alone the fact that Podesta’s lobbying firm is on payroll of the KSA. So on this reason Hillary should not be president, right? For comparison Trump’s campaign was investigated, and no financial ties to Russia are found.
both *democracy now* and *the young turks* broadcast valuable news and perspective on current events.
i am just so depressed lately that ANY news just brings me down….i am always turning folks on to TYT…
1 million dollars in one month in 1963 raised by teenagers for the Prince Edward Free Schools!?!!! In one month! Fantastic youtube video you guys put up today which is only encouragement to get to that 2 million by inauguration!!
Please post on Youtube as soon as you can. Many people, including individuals who’ve never heard of TYT, urgently need to hear your report/analysis on Aleppo. Thank you so much.
Go to Democracy Now youtube page; there is a debate that gives different perspectives on this issue. 1000000 times more nuanced than the segment TYT did.
segment is called ; Slaughter or Liberation?: A Debate on Russia’s Role in the Syrian War & the Fall of Aleppo
Its between :
Stephen Cohen, professor emeritus of Russian studies and politics at New York University and Princeton University. vs Humans right watch Kenneth roth
that segment has just a 1,000 views thats the video that should be shared as it gives platform to both narratives not what TYT just did and added no nuance , depth to the issue . you could read what TYT just said in any of the mainstream outlets.
Also please watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1VNQGsiP8M one of the few journo’s on the ground EVA BARTLETT speaking about the issue at the UN press conference. TYT is taking Washington posts and government intelligence at face value . Notice how Eva’s press conference or views like hers and prof cohen ( in the democracy now debate) are ignored by TYT.
Inform your self dont take what TYT, NYT , RT, Democracy now , or any other news outlet says without doing your own research. Notice John said he researched the topic for a long time but could not find the other narrative? that should scream out to anyone informed that John is only looking at certain sites and not getting the full picture . its clear john has not been following the issue very much . Maybe listen to what Cohen and Eva are saying who have been following this for years now. it takes 10 minutes to find there are about 3 narratives floating around one pro russia , one pro west and another i think Cohen ascribes too. there is allot of confusion don’t just take any narrative as 100% truth .
Thanks for your input, Atlantis. I do watch Democracy Now! often, and will watch the segment you posted, along with the additional information. That said, I support TYT, and would welcome their posting more segments on Youtube.
Lol your welcome =) . im obv for TYT posting my point is this TYT segment could be found on any MSM outlet. So in my opinion less heard voices and narratives should be amplified.
The segment on Aleppo is ANOTHER ORWELLIAN PROPAGANDA piece (though, as always, I am not saying it is intentional on Cenk/John’s part, it is just all they have is Western media):
1. No “mass executions” are happening, no evidence of that, no confirmation, only claims by jihadists the West/Saudis/Qatari/Turkey fund and arm,
2. No “mass suicides” are happening either; no evidence of that, no confirmation, only claims by the jihadists that the West/Saudis/Qatari/Turkey fund and arm,
3. John continues to literally quote statements by Al-Qaeda/its clones. They are literally terrorists, including the CIA-vetted and armed Al-Zenki that ON CAMERA have beheaded a child and tortured another. CNN went so insane that they interviewed a literal Wahhabi/Salafi terrorist to get their “news”,
4. Russia has stopped bombed Aleppo since September already;
5. Russia does not have ground troops there either, so Cenk attributing whatever claimed on Russia is absurd. Obama’s already kills terrorists’ family, even if they are US citizens, even if they are 16 year old without a trial;
6. Syria has carried already dozens of the “peace deals” with “rebels” being evacuated to Idlib province from their previously-held territories. Why would they want to all of sudden start to “kill civilians”, if the pro-government forces do not attack even “rebels” as per such deals?
7. The civilians have been used as a human shield by the jihadists, this is what people who evacuate from Aleppo say ON CAMERA even to AFP and CNN, the “historical evil” is done by the terrorists;
8. Turkey is “ally”? They backs the jihadists (including Daesh/ISIS) all the way through, not just random “Sunnis”. Actual Sunnis condemned Wahhabi/Salafi perversion of Islam in their religious conferences;
9. The medal T-Rex oil guy received has thousands of other recipients, including many other Americans. Why Cenk talks about it? Are they all Putin’s agents? What is with the neo-MacCarthyite framing?
Jokes aside, this was one of the many TYT “Saddam has WMDs” segments: no journalistic scepticism, no fact-checking, 100% relaying StateDep propaganda. Same as Cenk did in 2011 when he has supported the illegal aggression against Libya that he now regrets. If this is what Cenk calls “objective” and “fair” coverage, it is sad.
While I’m sure that some atrocities are happening (because this is a war), as soon as I heard John say “women are committing mass suicide, families kill each other to avoid being killed in a worse fashion”, I immediately went mentally back to the BS story about Saddam’s soldiers throwing babies on the ground in a maternity ward, since it is such an over-the-top story.
Treat things like this with very healthy skepticism, until they have been confirmed by independent reporting. Otherwise happy Syria war with US ground troops, guys! Hope you like the draft!
Well to defend John and Cenk they certainly gave plenty of nuance and skepticism regarding the reporting, the rebels, etc and have also made many of those same critiques of US policy. They’re also just reporting what’s been reported and they even say that’s all they are doing. I don’t take what either side in this conflict says seriously and they don’t seem to either. And for all the faults of western journalism the idea that reporting coming out of Russia or Syria/the Middle East is more so much more credible is absolutely hilarious, especially when it comes to this matter. They mock the idea of free speech and you’re basically repeating their propaganda and even wrote “kill civilians” in quotations like that, as if it isn’t happening or is justified. And just to top it off with irony, you call them Orwellian. The length and intensity of your rant alone shows your obvious bias
I divided John and Cenk in the very beginning, point out that they are in the bubble of the establishment neoliberal media. My actual complain is always the lack of proper procedure of fact-checking both stories and hosts’ arguments, not really even concrete stories the hosts do. Cenk and John will continue to bungle the coverage forever, if TYT will not implement a structure to (more or less) guarantee the implementation of journalistic standards.
The intensity and length of my rant is not criteria of bias, only content can be. You can not argue with any of my points. And you do not need Russian media to get accurate information on what happens in Syria. Just follow progressive journalists like Ben Norton, Max Blumenthal, Kyle Kulinki (Secular Talk) and others.
The fact that you managed to see “bias” in my strictly factual corrections (notice there were no points on how Assad is great or that Syrian army has never committed war crimes or any of the partisan talking points) to the coverage shows that the biased between us is not me.
*”defended” John and Cenk, not “divided” them. Damn dyslexia; sorry.
janachovich
“At no place I wrote that Cenk and John demand no-fly-zone. Were did you get that? ”
Do I really need to explain that I didn’t mean you literally said it and was showing how they differ from the typical MSM reporting? You did say “this was one of the many TYT “Saddam has WMDs” segments: no journalistic scepticism, no fact-checking, 100% relaying StateDep propaganda. Same as Cenk did in 2011 when he has supported the illegal aggression against Libya that he now regrets.” So yes you are implying that they are pushing for intervention of some sort
Honestly don’t feel like continuing this anymore although it is fun having you prove my point for me.
“it is literally factual this time.” What happened to the skepticism there? Where’s your skepticism for Ben Norton, Max Blumenthal, Kyle Kulinki (Secular Talk) and others?
I think I get it now. Whatever fits your narrative is “literally factual” and everything else MSM propaganda. Russian or Syrian propaganda does not exist and they don’t even have bombs and planes or tanks. Assad and Putin are delicate flowers simply liberating their people from the terrorists and anyone caught in the crossfire is just a human shield for the terrorists or complicit in their crimes.
Again, they aren’t reporting anything as fact and refer to some of the it as anecdotal, they elude to issues with the rebels and the US role and say they are not in favor of any intervention or no-fly zone. So either you have selective hearing or are making them into a straw man as bad as CNN and MSNBC who try to push the interventionist message. Or there is another answer which is your bias. Funny how you think that those progressive journalists are the only ones who have the truth and cannot be wrong and act like there is some concrete way to fact check any of this. I think both sides of the conflict are full of it with little regard for human life or rights which is why your bias is obvious. It might be true that in some instances “The civilians have been used as a human shield by the jihadists” but no way that that is the case most times and it’s a pretty standard deflection for bombing civilians these days in many places.
dDErss
At no place I wrote that Cenk and John demand no-fly-zone. Were did you get that? Home come you claim I am biases when you are making up my positions?
On the issue of Syria they are correct, it is undeniable. We have a proxy “regime change” war for a gas pipe line that has nothing to do with “freedom” and “democracy”, and “moderate opposition” in Syria is almost entirely a myth. They are firmly merged with Al-Qaeda and their clones.
And “The civilians have been used as a human shield by the jihadists” it is not just a standard excuse to bomb civilians, it is literally factual this time. Even AFP could not totally censor what people that flee jihadis’ East Aleppo are saying: the “rebels” did not allow them to leave. Also, the reason why the liberation of Eastern Aleppo took half of a year is exactly because the bombings were moderate due to the hostages.
dDErss
1. Indicating that Cenk and John repeat MSM’s horrible job on Iraq war does not mean they demand no-fly-zone. Such incorrect coverage increases the hysteria, fearmongering, xenophobia against other countries without reason, and it is dangerous since it allows the power to use those inflicted feelings to push them into supporting very bad decisions that may or may be not about no-fly-zone, but it is not the same as pushing the no-fly-zone.
2. You always need scepticism of Ben Norton, Max Blumenthal, Kyle Kulinki (Secular Talk) and others, but we discuss direct video evidence of what is happening: thousands of civilians are evacuated by the Syrian army that help the elderly and children (versus no evidence of mass massacres and suicides), video interviews of those who are fleeing East Aleppo that was done by pro-jihadi media that could not filter out the interviews as people were saying same thing. We do not discuss assertions by Ben Norton, Max Blumenthal, Kyle Kulinki (Secular Talk) and others here.
3. You “forgot” the fact that, as I pointed out, I never wrote that Assad is great, that were were no war crimes or anything like that. So you again has made up my position to invent my “bias”, to create a false equivalency between neocon pro “regime change” Orwellian propaganda in Western media and other sources that provide direct video evidence of what is happening, as well as cite the claims from both sides of the conflict, not just one. The likes of Ben Norton, Max Blumenthal, Kyle Kulinki (Secular Talk) and others respond to the mainline propaganda about this subject, so they can not avoid citing (and debunking) its claims.
Whatever Russian agency is paying you needs to get you some English lessons lol. Their Aleppo coverage has been a little too state propaganda for my tastes though, so you may have a point in your long, poorly worded rant this time.
Mr.MacCarthy? Or, rather a Snowden-exposed NSA troll army soldier? How is the weather in Fort Meade? Do they pay you so little that you can not come up with anything other singe single-trick pony “you’re paid” “argument”?
Seriously, is TYT’s audience now? People are unable and, what is worse, unwilling to be open minded, think critically, and are so in the bubble that they can not imagine others having something different to say without those others being “paid” for it.
I am not making the claims, there is nothing to prove. The MSM take unverified, unconfirmed PR claims from jihadists and run with it as if it is the truth. Not a shred of evidence of any of their claims. And you can see it from this show yourself; Johns cites “reports”. The “reports” are just terrorists’ tweets “I have seen 20 civilians slaughtered!!!”.
You can almost never prove a negative. Lets try this:
I have seen right now that Assad killed and abducted a million people. Now prove me wrong! Present the evidence that it did not happen!
Sorry about the mistakes in the phrasing. But they have almost nothing to do with the English lessons. I have dyslexia which makes me unable to write correctly, especially when I am tired. I can skip words, put wrong endings, put words that sound phonetically similar, but have different spelling and meaning versus what I want. What is even worse is that I can not see some mistakes even if I proof-read myself immediately, I can only see them when I re-read the text later. Unfortunately, there is no possibility to edit comments here, so the horrible text is here to stay.
Unlike TYT ,Eva Bartlett spent a lot of time on the ground in Syria. It’s a disgrace that Cenk has given in to his anti Russian bias which has clouded his cognition with obvious ‘fake news’. John’s blind alliegence to bad CIA massaged phony data and redacted Google searches illustrates what’s wrong with “Higher Education” today.
Comments
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Electors who don’t want to vote for Trump should vote for Hillary Clinton. And their reason should be: “When the popular vote is so far out of line with the electoral college results, it’s my duty to vote for the person who won the popular vote.”
I think when the popular vote is more than 2 million votes in favor of a candidate, that’s sufficient reason for electors to ratify it in the electoral college.
As a Brit who has worked in the oil & gas industry for over 40 years in over 39 countries , we learned pretty quickly that although the USA had over half a century of so called expertise they are garbage at the front end.
We and other Europeans developed the technology for the difficult extractions then the money men moved in and the engineers sidelined then you finished up with BP horizon blaming the Oil Companies instead of the century of Cowboys in the industry.
The Alaskan pipeline welded together flat faced with capping only no preheat or XRay multiple shots on one complete weld.
Even the Lendlease shipping that we Brits finally paid for in the mid seventies were cowboy end and more ships split in two than sunk by German U boats.
Technologically the Us is kept going by foreign technology expertise and the petro $ you have an archaic infrastructure that those who have a passport would understand, however to end on a goog note as somebody who has worked and travelled in over 40 states I have never met anywhere more pleasant,friendly although sometimes naive people on all my travels.
Sorry for any offence not intended.
Trevor- COMPLETELY AGREE! Which is why big oil in Texas cares greatly for their work visas. Here in Houston, we have more upper management foreigners in our Oil and Gas industry than Americans. The Dutch and English (UK) specifically have HUGE influence here. So these kids going to college for an engineering job have an extremely hard time finding anything more than an entry lvl job after college. In the energy corridor specifically you can’t walk in a bar without meeting numerous persons from the U.K. Or The Netherlands. Which is kinda cool for me bc I’m first generation American. My parents are both Dutch. My mother became a technical Liberian for oil and gas companies and my step father learned a trade and started a small business. My bio dad was German and became a citizen by joining the air force as a MP.
If anyone cares, update on the blue collar worker in an energy city/state.
Background- I live in Houston Texas and have a small business related to the energy industry. Specifically, I am a machinist who resharpens carbide tools by hand. A dying trade that was passed down to me. Myself and my family are progressives working with BRIGHT red Repubs on a daily basis.
The update- Literally 1 week after the Election results my business has seen a HUGE increase in work. The companies we do work for seem to be back to the Bush days concerning productivity. Which in turn means that Calpine (HUGE energy company) is either receiving more contracts or preparing to receive them. Typically December is a very slow month and so far I have literally been working every day, 10-12 hours a day. Our customers are working 24/7 and their shop guys are loving the overtime. Some are even starting to hire people back that were fired during the oil drop. Every day I visit a shop to pick up more work the employees praise Trump and point to their 12 hr work days as proof that he will be great for the US. The energy corridor in Houston is also seeing a slight uptick in hiring.
My point- As sad as it is, the average blue collar person in Texas is already seeing benefits with Trump. No matter the fact that they get mediocre pay and are forced to work overtime just to reach a living wage. No matter the fact that next year insurance prices in Texas will be rising. My monthly insurance costs for 2016 was 300 a month, for 2017 it is going to 500 for shit coverage. So basically, from what I am seeing, the blue collar shop worker in Texas doesn’t give a shit about the environment, what Trump says, who Trump appoints, what family member of his runs what, etc. They care about their paycheck, and right now, it’s looking better. Its not that they don’t care about the long term effects of climate change, or racism, or anything like that. Its that they see in short term. Can I pay my bills? Can I afford my rent? Can I feed my kids? Etc. So with all this in mind, I find it extremely hard to make a progressive argument to anyone that I come into contact with. Short term thinking is what keeps/put the Repubs in power and as a progressive, I haven’t been able to find an argument to combat that. Deep down they know they are voting to literally rape the planet, but as they see it, they gots bills to pay and those are the jobs available. As I sit around and debate with my Repub friends they always go back to one saying, “We can’t all live in California or New York. I’m not going to vote to put myself out of work.”
As mad as anyone might be reading the above, doesn’t change the reality of blue collar shop worker.
Thank you for sharing what is happening in your corner of the country.
That’s a GREAT point. What I wonder is…once inflation sets in (feds raising interest rates, global trade slowing down) and their wages stay stagnant will your co-workers start to scratch their heads?
Awesome… I’m right next door to you in Louisiana. This is all Big Oil/OPEC’s doing… It is starting to seem staged where republican top dogs get OPEC to drop oil prices around a year before an election then blame it on democrats. I don’t understand why the oil field people don’t just abandon this industry for being so dependent on what OPEC decides. It’s going to happen again. It’s a cycle that people make billions off of. My brother started a machine shop that had to close because of this. It’s not only been hard financially on him and his family, but the stress he has endured can’t be good for him.
Cenk and John, the Aleppo segments have been awful. SAA controlled Aleppo has been under constant bombardment (e.g. Hell cannons) for 4 years, and there is little coverage of the civilians suffering and death. Some balance in coverage would be appreciated. I shed no tears for the defeat of the salafists.
Also, the lives of the people under rebel control is covered very little by Western media. The oppression of minorities by the rebels is something I would think the West would be eager to cover and alleviate.
The lives of the average person in a country sponsored by and partnered with SA, UAE, Qatar versus a country run by Assad and Iran is not even comparable. The US and its allies in the EU are on the wrong side here.
you would think it is something the west would cover. that’s is your mistake… there is no west any more, the direction you are pointing in is corporate and when you refer to the west as corporate then all the decisions that confuse you make sense, because it is not coming from the PEOPLE of the west. America has fallen to idiocrity (spoiled and uneducated) and bedazzlement (media drama). I’m trying my friend, but I think the only way we get anywhere is to abandon the 3 religions, and for those that feel the need, build a new one together. Until we teach our children that NO ONE knows what happens after death then we will have religious based murder. Let me rephrase that: As long as we brainwash our kids with fear to be good then someone will be brainwashing a child with fear to do something bad.
All true.
However, I expect better from TYT. Seems they are parroting the Western narrative that was the talk of the day.
Everyone had the ‘save poor Allepo from slaughter’ this week, when the evidence of such a thing needed to be taken with a grain of salt.
The Aleppo piece was VERY disappointing; I almost had to turn it off because I’ve heard it all before from typical MSM propaganda mouthpieces. I’m glad to see that so many folks here have already called Cenk and John out for this segment. Nobody involved in this conflict is blameless, but supporting the self-righteous condemnations from some of the world’s worst war crime enablers is shoddy journalism and weak analysis.
I totally agree. I was expecting better from TYT. Where do we have to go for balanced news, RT?
Im glad there has been some push back because TYT’s coverage of foreign affairs is laughable most of the time . But look at some of the comments of individuals who deem the people pushing back as ” pro russian” that is the same narrative that can be observed on twitter/ facebook / media as a whole.
If people are not looking at this whole issue with highly skeptical eyes and at the very least waiting until the dust settles to begin condemning/alleging/ pushing allegations against certain states than sadly you have been brainwashed. Forget your bias there is very little certifiable evidence right now, that is the worrying thing. when you have people like Cenk/ John who are supposed to be giving us the news but they are taking whatever NYT , Washpro publish as pretty much fact it really speaks to how truly “independent” TYT really is. you cant call and sell your self as the independent media when in vital stories like these your narrative is exactly the same as the corporate media.
The issue is some TYT members who whenever they are presented with a differing narrative or presented with an opinion that doesn’t fit their easy anti complex world view they lash out. And really thats the issue with many liberals who think just because they support certain good issues/ policies/ etc they can turn of their brains and then just engulf themselves with whatever media narrative they are fed. Do research ! look at other sources outside MSM liberal outlets which TYT parrots in foreign affairs . Then come and lets all have a discussion instead of calling certain users here as Russian cock puppets.
seriously basically every other independent media outlet has had a more nuanced coverage of this issue than TYT who has a much bigger platform. Why dont TYT go try and get EVA BARTLETT ( independent – anti MSM Journalist ) you would think she would fit perfectly with what TYT is about. Why dont TYT at the very least get progressives who cover the middle east to talk about these issues? Its clear Johns knowledge of geo politics is at best below average. Cenk has better understanding but somehow he often comes to rather (excuse my language) idiotic conclusions . He supported the push towards conflict against Libya a devastating mistake that could be seen by anyone following the situation with Libya and its neighbors over the last decade. I mean really i implore all to do some research on that conflict and look how the west and Gaddafi interacted over the decade before that issue. but even with info easily accessible cenk still came to a conclusion that was devastating to all the humans in that region.
I say all this because TYT has proven they have dont have even a little clear /concise understanding of foreign affairs why not bring someone in? It truly is puzzling because i am almost certain that many syria/ russia/ Middle progressive experts would in an instant jump at the chance of getting on a platform like TYT . They go on Democracy Now pretty often , and even lesser known outlets almost daily.
As members we should demand better from TYT its clear that in certain ways TYT is below average. We should all be demanding more in depth segments , interviews with experts , provide more than just the MSM narrative. That is what Independent media is about!
In defense of people who “turn off their brains”: I totally understand. I’m nearly 50 now, and I still catch myself every day wanting to believe the mainstream media that have been squawking at me all these years. (They seem so legitimate because they own the airwaves and they look all authoritative, confident, beautiful and smart!) I can’t fault others for being at a different point in their journey toward clarity about mainstream news sources. The best we can do is continue to call people out when they fail to see the misdirection, incomplete reporting and lies that the mainstream churns out every day.
Agreed. Voice like Juan Cole, Max Abrams, or Josh Landis offer as insightful and non-propagandists commentary as there is.
TYT needs to avoid doing segments on topics like Syria. Especially when you are only parroting what other (mainly Western) news sources are saying. Unless you have reporters and anchors with access to primary sources and/or a lot of knowledge about and on-the-ground, firsthand experience with the history (political and otherwise) on a topic, avoid.
Democracy Now is great about bringing on primary and legitimate secondary sources for live interviews, and those being interviewed often talk with and among each other to explore different facets of a topic.
Phyllis Bennis often gives a totally non-MSM way of looking at a ME topic because she has spent her life studying and teaching about it. Col Andrew Bacevich is a non-MSM fountain of refreshing (and sometimes disturbing) thought b/c he is not only a retired colonal, but lost his son in the first Iraq conflict, and he is also a military historian who also teachers on the topic.
Maybe others here can recommend some other researchers and experts to consider listening to. Tariq Ali, John Pilger, and anyone working for The Intercept… Also, Iona Craig re Yemen.
I would be interested in reading other recommended sources from TYT members…
TYT needs to avoid doing segments on topics like Syria. Especially when you are only parroting what other (mainly Western) news sources are saying. Unless you have reporters and anchors with access to primary sources and/or a lot of knowledge about and on-the-ground, firsthand experience with the history (political and otherwise) on a topic, avoid.
Democracy Now is great about bringing on primary and legitimate secondary sources for live interviews, and those being interviewed often talk with and among each other to explore different facets of a topic.
Phyllis Bennis often gives a totally non-MSM way of looking at a ME topic because she has spent her life studying and teaching about it. Col Andrew Bacevich is a non-MSM fountain of refreshing (and sometimes disturbing) thought b/c he is not only a retired colonal, but lost his son in the first Iraq conflict, and he is also a military historian who also teachers on the topic.
Maybe others here can recommend some other researchers and experts to consider listening to. Tariq Ali, John Pilger, and anyone working for The Intercept… Also, Iona Craig re Yemen.
I would be interested in reading other recommended sources from TYT members…
That was my point you cannot believe the fake news in the UK or USA !
Don’t get sidetracked people. No point in arguing about verifying what you hear, that’s obvious. Pointing out what TYT is missing is EXACTLY what we should be doing. I think there is far too much name calling in the reporting. I don’t need to hear that someone is dumb or stupid or a loser, and ESPECIALLY more than once. I know i’m far from the norm so I accept that most people may like that, and it pulls viewers in ( I guess), but ultimately it’s attracting attention to something in a negative way. It’s sad to me that so many humans respond to that. One of the hardest things in raising my son (8) is teaching him about overcoming negativity when things don’t go his way. It’s seems like it’s genetically hard coded into him… (just like my fkn father n law).. But hey! I’m getting a TYT shirt. Can’t wait to piss off all the oil industry zombies here, or as I like to call them SAB’s… Saudie Arabian Bitches (since their entire lives are hanging on the thread of what SA decides the price of a barrel of oil will be). Here is something to research… Does the recent price hike in oil do anything to benefit/stall/incentivize the investors in Dakota Pipeline? I know anything that will boost the oil industry here will bode well in support for the DP when Trump comes out and says it’s necessary to benefit from the increase in oil prices. PLAY CHESS!
Great point …
No one wants to be on the side of DAPL right now.
But then oil prices spike, and the uninformed say, “Hey, it may be bad, but we need DAPL so that prices will go down again.” And Trump can bluster allover the place that he is backing DAPL so that hard-working Americans can have cheaper fuel.
Never-mind that the fucking pipeline is already leaking from a 6″ pipe, wait until it is a 30″ one.
People need to keep saying over and over that all these pipelines & oil rigs DO NOT belong to the US!
The oil IS NOT staying in the US. It is on the world market.
Bull shit piled on top of bull shit.
YES!!! you just provided a great example of how it can go either way. prices up / prices down, it can all be angled and promoted to create opinion amongst the uninformed. Poll the public’s desperation, then angle an event like a price hike to pull favor toward the pipeline. disgusting :(
I see it as a win-win. Prices are low – great, people are gouged less for their energy needs, and less of it is going to petrol states. Oil prices going up – more investment in renewables, because it’s high time humanity moved on to something better. Burning oil for eletricity is such a bad idea. Save it for medicine, for making products, etc.
I think the REAL reason some Republicans are unhappy with Trump (as Clintoncrat Neo-Libs hate Bernie) is not entirely because Trump is a madman that they can’t control.
The reason DC is frantic & pissed about Trump is not only that he has pulled the curtain back on their pay-to-play system. Trump also takes away any facade that being a federal level US senator or representative is an institution that needs to be, at least in polite company, RESPECTED.
They are like the police in this. The WORST thing you can do is disrespect a cop.
Trump is shitting allover their “honorable gentlemen & women” persona.
They CANNOT hide! He’s pay-to-play on steroids!
Oh, politicians passing cash & doing deals without the cameras on? Completely accepted & normal.
Trump is in the spotlight, taking his tiny hands and rubbing his tiny package allover their legalized bribery.
If this was a special edition of Survivor, Trump would be totally “winning.”
Unfortunately, this is ACTUAL reality.
Let’s combine guns, alcohol, NRA members and football together and sit back and watch the show – what could go wrong???
Since I have dyslexia that gets worse when I am tired, I butcher my texts severely, and with this comment system not allowing edits they stay that way forever; horrible. So I am re-posting a cleaner version:
The segment on Aleppo is ANOTHER ORWELLIAN PROPAGANDA piece (though, as always, I am not saying it is intentional on Cenk/John’s part, it is just all they have is Western media):
1. No “mass executions” and “mass suicides” are happening, no evidence of that, no confirmation, only claims by jihadists that West/Saudis/Qatari/Turkey fund and arm,
2. John continues to quote statements from Al-Qaeda/its clones. They are literal terrorists, including the CIA-vetted and armed Al-Zenki gang that ON CAMERA have beheaded a child and tortured another. CNN went so insane that they interviewed Bilal Kareem, Al-Qaeda publicist, get their “news”,
3. Russia has stopped bombing Aleppo since September already. Russia does not have ground troops there either, so Cenk attributing whatever claimed on Russia is absurd. Obama is already killing terrorists’ families, even if they are US citizens, even if they are 16 year olds; and all that without a trial;
4. Syria has carried already dozens of such “peace deals” with “rebels” being evacuated to Idlib province from their previously-held territories. Why would they want to all of sudden start to “kill civilians”, if pro-government forces, as per the deals, do not attack even “rebels”?
5. The civilians have been used as a human shield by the jihadists, this is what people who evacuate from Aleppo say ON CAMERA even to AFP and CNN, the “historical evil” is done by the terrorists,
6. Turkey is an “ally”? They backs the jihadists (including Daesh/ISIS) all the way through, not just random “Sunnis”. Actual Sunnis condemned Wahhabi/Salafi perversion of Islam in their religious conferences;
7. The medal T-Rex oil StateDep guy received has thousands of other recipients, including many other Americans. Why Cenk talks about it? Are they all Putin’s agents? What is with this neo-MacCarthyite framing? On the other hand, there is evidence (videos) of thousands of civilians evacuated from Aleppo peacefully, but, of course, the media do not report what is actually happening.
it wasn’t that bad. It was clear enough for me understand, and therefore I am able to fact check it all. What a waste of time… fact checking the facts, then fact checking the fact checking, wtf!!! This is so uncomplicated, and it’s complicated intentionally so that chaos is the outcome from which a fountain of profit thus pours… ridiculous. Everyone’s role outside of this kind of conflict (Syria) should simply be rescue and let the people that want to fight it out, fight it out. The people that want out, let’s get them out, I’ll put boots on the ground if their sole purpose is to get people out if they don’t want to be there. Intervention will not change the aspirations to destroy each other, only experiencing the devastation of those aspirations will change their hearts. It’s their own social evolution.
Hi, dDErss~
Your comments are very interesting and informative. You obviously work hard on them.
Given your dyslexia, they are especially impressive.
WRT editing: I do mine before hitting Submit. Depending on my degree of exhaustion , haste, or passion, that may take even 3 or 4 re-reads. Still…perfection sometimes isn’t there.
My guess as to why TYT doesn’t offer the option to edit after submission could be that anyone
might then be able to change others’ comments. Maybe they could work out a change in their
system where your name would open ONLY your submission for alteration. I dunno. Maybe.
Well, appreciating your frustration…now I’ll review this a couple times.
~UPAYA~
Cenk news from the UK is that the US is allowing ISIS to leave enclaves in N/E Iraq to attack Palmyra in Syria. The truth is all governments are lying to suit there own agenda, this does not excuse the slaughter but nobody deserves a free ride on this our Bernie in UK Corbyn had it right don’t get involved in the war only in the peace talks !
Am I tripping or is the sound level stil cracy high?
Thank God Putin cock-puppet “dDErss” is here to spread disinformation on Russia’s behalf. I hope you’re being paid well, comrade.
Good to know that some TYT members can red-bait with the best of them. McCarthy sends his regards.
Am I the only one who finds him legitimately funny? He does sometimes have valid criticism of the way they cover stories; stories not involving Russia, of course. Also when I see his comments I think of this http://cdn0.dailydot.com/cache/7e/5d/7e5df59558215a4d3df10cb8583faf44.jpg
I have systematically critiqued Russia/Putin here, so my criticisms are valid regardless of the subject.
Snowden-exposed NSA troll army soldiers are on attack today?
But, seriously, which part of my critiques is “disinformation”? Pointing at the fact that there is no evidence of the key claims that the Aleppo segment is based on?
Were you among those who rooted for the Iraq war because Saddam had WMDs and did 9/11, you just in love with the establishment/government claims and perceives any and all of them as truth without evidence?
Or are you just a xenophobe and bigot, and your only difference from Trump supporters in this regard is that you have replaced a religion with nationality?
*perceive
** some Trump supporters
Refreshing to see someone else recognises this pro-Putin agent provocateur for what he/she is.
There’s no question that the US has and continues to make “highly questionable” foreign policy decisions, but to be such a blanket apologist for the current Russian policy of neo-imperial involvements and entanglements is nauseating: “US, bad; Russia, good” gets kinda boring after the first several hundred times…
I am jealous of Jayar’s hair. :(
I started losing my hair when I was 18. I’m 31 now with hardly anything left. Then there’s Jayar Jackson. Some guys have all the luck. ;)
dDErss: Jumping the shark, Pravda style. Throwback!
https://mobile.twitter.com/dderss?lang=en
Notice how any muslim NOT supporting Assad is a “jihadist” on that Twitter page?
I can see it now: The Apprentice – White House edition. Trump has corporate/celebrity/republicans compete to win a cabinet position. Each week the contestants have to meet the challenge which always pertains to a Trump business or interest, including being present and filming security clearance required meetings. It would be the “conflict challenge of the week.”
Say “propaganda” instead of “fake news.”
Eva Bartlett
Russia hacking the DNC and releasing the data to Wikileaks and allegedly hacking the RNC but not leaking that data reeks to high hell. I just fear our March towards authoritarianism and fascism. I voted for Bernie Sanders in the primary, and HRC in the general. I wasn’t confident in my abilities to fight fascism, and now that we lost to Trumpism I am doing everything that I can to fight fascism.
The level of proof that the hacking was done by the Russian government is truly epic. The phishing mail to Podesta came from Ukraine. But Ukraine is almost Russia. And Russia is almost the same as the Russian government/FSB-GRU special hacking forces. And the DNC hack’s “evidence” is also amazing. Some of the documents are signed as “Felix Edmundovich”, who was the founder of the KGB/FSB’s predecessor. It’s like believing CIA spies would go hacking in Russia using the nome de guerre “Allen Dulles”.
The “evidence” is so ridiculous that they understood that they can not claim it was GRU’s special hacking forces any more (as they did initially), so now they made “one step away” (meaning it was not FSB’s hacking teams any more, but “middlemen”) excuse to still blame the hacks on the Russian government with literally zero actual evidence.
On electors’ segment: Hillary has DOCUMENTED financial influence from foreign governments such as Wahhabi/Salafi terrorist tyrannies like the kingdom of Saudi Arabia (KSA) and Qatar, both are among the top sponsors of the Clinton Foundation, let alone the fact that Podesta’s lobbying firm is on payroll of the KSA. So on this reason Hillary should not be president, right? For comparison Trump’s campaign was investigated, and no financial ties to Russia are found.
Eve Bartlett.
both *democracy now* and *the young turks* broadcast valuable news and perspective on current events.
i am just so depressed lately that ANY news just brings me down….i am always turning folks on to TYT…
America is done :(
1 million dollars in one month in 1963 raised by teenagers for the Prince Edward Free Schools!?!!! In one month! Fantastic youtube video you guys put up today which is only encouragement to get to that 2 million by inauguration!!
Please post on Youtube as soon as you can. Many people, including individuals who’ve never heard of TYT, urgently need to hear your report/analysis on Aleppo. Thank you so much.
no , just no.
Go to Democracy Now youtube page; there is a debate that gives different perspectives on this issue. 1000000 times more nuanced than the segment TYT did.
segment is called ; Slaughter or Liberation?: A Debate on Russia’s Role in the Syrian War & the Fall of Aleppo
Its between :
Stephen Cohen, professor emeritus of Russian studies and politics at New York University and Princeton University. vs Humans right watch Kenneth roth
that segment has just a 1,000 views thats the video that should be shared as it gives platform to both narratives not what TYT just did and added no nuance , depth to the issue . you could read what TYT just said in any of the mainstream outlets.
Also please watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1VNQGsiP8M one of the few journo’s on the ground EVA BARTLETT speaking about the issue at the UN press conference. TYT is taking Washington posts and government intelligence at face value . Notice how Eva’s press conference or views like hers and prof cohen ( in the democracy now debate) are ignored by TYT.
Inform your self dont take what TYT, NYT , RT, Democracy now , or any other news outlet says without doing your own research. Notice John said he researched the topic for a long time but could not find the other narrative? that should scream out to anyone informed that John is only looking at certain sites and not getting the full picture . its clear john has not been following the issue very much . Maybe listen to what Cohen and Eva are saying who have been following this for years now. it takes 10 minutes to find there are about 3 narratives floating around one pro russia , one pro west and another i think Cohen ascribes too. there is allot of confusion don’t just take any narrative as 100% truth .
Thanks for your input, Atlantis. I do watch Democracy Now! often, and will watch the segment you posted, along with the additional information. That said, I support TYT, and would welcome their posting more segments on Youtube.
Lol your welcome =) . im obv for TYT posting my point is this TYT segment could be found on any MSM outlet. So in my opinion less heard voices and narratives should be amplified.
The segment on Aleppo is ANOTHER ORWELLIAN PROPAGANDA piece (though, as always, I am not saying it is intentional on Cenk/John’s part, it is just all they have is Western media):
1. No “mass executions” are happening, no evidence of that, no confirmation, only claims by jihadists the West/Saudis/Qatari/Turkey fund and arm,
2. No “mass suicides” are happening either; no evidence of that, no confirmation, only claims by the jihadists that the West/Saudis/Qatari/Turkey fund and arm,
3. John continues to literally quote statements by Al-Qaeda/its clones. They are literally terrorists, including the CIA-vetted and armed Al-Zenki that ON CAMERA have beheaded a child and tortured another. CNN went so insane that they interviewed a literal Wahhabi/Salafi terrorist to get their “news”,
4. Russia has stopped bombed Aleppo since September already;
5. Russia does not have ground troops there either, so Cenk attributing whatever claimed on Russia is absurd. Obama’s already kills terrorists’ family, even if they are US citizens, even if they are 16 year old without a trial;
6. Syria has carried already dozens of the “peace deals” with “rebels” being evacuated to Idlib province from their previously-held territories. Why would they want to all of sudden start to “kill civilians”, if the pro-government forces do not attack even “rebels” as per such deals?
7. The civilians have been used as a human shield by the jihadists, this is what people who evacuate from Aleppo say ON CAMERA even to AFP and CNN, the “historical evil” is done by the terrorists;
8. Turkey is “ally”? They backs the jihadists (including Daesh/ISIS) all the way through, not just random “Sunnis”. Actual Sunnis condemned Wahhabi/Salafi perversion of Islam in their religious conferences;
9. The medal T-Rex oil guy received has thousands of other recipients, including many other Americans. Why Cenk talks about it? Are they all Putin’s agents? What is with the neo-MacCarthyite framing?
Tell us how you really feel…
Jokes aside, this was one of the many TYT “Saddam has WMDs” segments: no journalistic scepticism, no fact-checking, 100% relaying StateDep propaganda. Same as Cenk did in 2011 when he has supported the illegal aggression against Libya that he now regrets. If this is what Cenk calls “objective” and “fair” coverage, it is sad.
you’re sad
While I’m sure that some atrocities are happening (because this is a war), as soon as I heard John say “women are committing mass suicide, families kill each other to avoid being killed in a worse fashion”, I immediately went mentally back to the BS story about Saddam’s soldiers throwing babies on the ground in a maternity ward, since it is such an over-the-top story.
Treat things like this with very healthy skepticism, until they have been confirmed by independent reporting. Otherwise happy Syria war with US ground troops, guys! Hope you like the draft!
Well to defend John and Cenk they certainly gave plenty of nuance and skepticism regarding the reporting, the rebels, etc and have also made many of those same critiques of US policy. They’re also just reporting what’s been reported and they even say that’s all they are doing. I don’t take what either side in this conflict says seriously and they don’t seem to either. And for all the faults of western journalism the idea that reporting coming out of Russia or Syria/the Middle East is more so much more credible is absolutely hilarious, especially when it comes to this matter. They mock the idea of free speech and you’re basically repeating their propaganda and even wrote “kill civilians” in quotations like that, as if it isn’t happening or is justified. And just to top it off with irony, you call them Orwellian. The length and intensity of your rant alone shows your obvious bias
I divided John and Cenk in the very beginning, point out that they are in the bubble of the establishment neoliberal media. My actual complain is always the lack of proper procedure of fact-checking both stories and hosts’ arguments, not really even concrete stories the hosts do. Cenk and John will continue to bungle the coverage forever, if TYT will not implement a structure to (more or less) guarantee the implementation of journalistic standards.
The intensity and length of my rant is not criteria of bias, only content can be. You can not argue with any of my points. And you do not need Russian media to get accurate information on what happens in Syria. Just follow progressive journalists like Ben Norton, Max Blumenthal, Kyle Kulinki (Secular Talk) and others.
The fact that you managed to see “bias” in my strictly factual corrections (notice there were no points on how Assad is great or that Syrian army has never committed war crimes or any of the partisan talking points) to the coverage shows that the biased between us is not me.
*”defended” John and Cenk, not “divided” them. Damn dyslexia; sorry.
“At no place I wrote that Cenk and John demand no-fly-zone. Were did you get that? ”
Do I really need to explain that I didn’t mean you literally said it and was showing how they differ from the typical MSM reporting? You did say “this was one of the many TYT “Saddam has WMDs” segments: no journalistic scepticism, no fact-checking, 100% relaying StateDep propaganda. Same as Cenk did in 2011 when he has supported the illegal aggression against Libya that he now regrets.” So yes you are implying that they are pushing for intervention of some sort
Honestly don’t feel like continuing this anymore although it is fun having you prove my point for me.
“it is literally factual this time.” What happened to the skepticism there? Where’s your skepticism for Ben Norton, Max Blumenthal, Kyle Kulinki (Secular Talk) and others?
I think I get it now. Whatever fits your narrative is “literally factual” and everything else MSM propaganda. Russian or Syrian propaganda does not exist and they don’t even have bombs and planes or tanks. Assad and Putin are delicate flowers simply liberating their people from the terrorists and anyone caught in the crossfire is just a human shield for the terrorists or complicit in their crimes.
Again, they aren’t reporting anything as fact and refer to some of the it as anecdotal, they elude to issues with the rebels and the US role and say they are not in favor of any intervention or no-fly zone. So either you have selective hearing or are making them into a straw man as bad as CNN and MSNBC who try to push the interventionist message. Or there is another answer which is your bias. Funny how you think that those progressive journalists are the only ones who have the truth and cannot be wrong and act like there is some concrete way to fact check any of this. I think both sides of the conflict are full of it with little regard for human life or rights which is why your bias is obvious. It might be true that in some instances “The civilians have been used as a human shield by the jihadists” but no way that that is the case most times and it’s a pretty standard deflection for bombing civilians these days in many places.
At no place I wrote that Cenk and John demand no-fly-zone. Were did you get that? Home come you claim I am biases when you are making up my positions?
On the issue of Syria they are correct, it is undeniable. We have a proxy “regime change” war for a gas pipe line that has nothing to do with “freedom” and “democracy”, and “moderate opposition” in Syria is almost entirely a myth. They are firmly merged with Al-Qaeda and their clones.
And “The civilians have been used as a human shield by the jihadists” it is not just a standard excuse to bomb civilians, it is literally factual this time. Even AFP could not totally censor what people that flee jihadis’ East Aleppo are saying: the “rebels” did not allow them to leave. Also, the reason why the liberation of Eastern Aleppo took half of a year is exactly because the bombings were moderate due to the hostages.
1. Indicating that Cenk and John repeat MSM’s horrible job on Iraq war does not mean they demand no-fly-zone. Such incorrect coverage increases the hysteria, fearmongering, xenophobia against other countries without reason, and it is dangerous since it allows the power to use those inflicted feelings to push them into supporting very bad decisions that may or may be not about no-fly-zone, but it is not the same as pushing the no-fly-zone.
2. You always need scepticism of Ben Norton, Max Blumenthal, Kyle Kulinki (Secular Talk) and others, but we discuss direct video evidence of what is happening: thousands of civilians are evacuated by the Syrian army that help the elderly and children (versus no evidence of mass massacres and suicides), video interviews of those who are fleeing East Aleppo that was done by pro-jihadi media that could not filter out the interviews as people were saying same thing. We do not discuss assertions by Ben Norton, Max Blumenthal, Kyle Kulinki (Secular Talk) and others here.
3. You “forgot” the fact that, as I pointed out, I never wrote that Assad is great, that were were no war crimes or anything like that. So you again has made up my position to invent my “bias”, to create a false equivalency between neocon pro “regime change” Orwellian propaganda in Western media and other sources that provide direct video evidence of what is happening, as well as cite the claims from both sides of the conflict, not just one. The likes of Ben Norton, Max Blumenthal, Kyle Kulinki (Secular Talk) and others respond to the mainline propaganda about this subject, so they can not avoid citing (and debunking) its claims.
Whatever Russian agency is paying you needs to get you some English lessons lol. Their Aleppo coverage has been a little too state propaganda for my tastes though, so you may have a point in your long, poorly worded rant this time.
Mr.MacCarthy? Or, rather a Snowden-exposed NSA troll army soldier? How is the weather in Fort Meade? Do they pay you so little that you can not come up with anything other singe single-trick pony “you’re paid” “argument”?
Seriously, is TYT’s audience now? People are unable and, what is worse, unwilling to be open minded, think critically, and are so in the bubble that they can not imagine others having something different to say without those others being “paid” for it.
Do you have any proof to any of your claims? Its hard to trust a random dude in the comment section
I am not making the claims, there is nothing to prove. The MSM take unverified, unconfirmed PR claims from jihadists and run with it as if it is the truth. Not a shred of evidence of any of their claims. And you can see it from this show yourself; Johns cites “reports”. The “reports” are just terrorists’ tweets “I have seen 20 civilians slaughtered!!!”.
You can almost never prove a negative. Lets try this:
I have seen right now that Assad killed and abducted a million people. Now prove me wrong! Present the evidence that it did not happen!
Sorry about the mistakes in the phrasing. But they have almost nothing to do with the English lessons. I have dyslexia which makes me unable to write correctly, especially when I am tired. I can skip words, put wrong endings, put words that sound phonetically similar, but have different spelling and meaning versus what I want. What is even worse is that I can not see some mistakes even if I proof-read myself immediately, I can only see them when I re-read the text later. Unfortunately, there is no possibility to edit comments here, so the horrible text is here to stay.
Unlike TYT ,Eva Bartlett spent a lot of time on the ground in Syria. It’s a disgrace that Cenk has given in to his anti Russian bias which has clouded his cognition with obvious ‘fake news’. John’s blind alliegence to bad CIA massaged phony data and redacted Google searches illustrates what’s wrong with “Higher Education” today.