Grace and returning favorite, Cecilia Betsill, discuss Hungarian “Blood Countess” Elizabeth Báthory. They duo dive into Bathory’s apparent love for bathing in the blood of virgins.
It is definitely possible for Bathory to have responsible for 600 deaths. Most of the girls murdered were children of peasants and back then, peasant deaths weren’t recorded, no one had enough power to get authorities to look into the death because peasant deaths didn’t matter. What got Bathory into trouble was when they ran out of young, pretty peasant girls and her servants (aides) went out and got more “respectable” girls to murder.
I too would much rather watch a more realistic Game of Thrones type of film on Countess Bathory than the current horror films. I have always found Countess Bathory suspicious given her power. Thank you for covering her. She is one of my favorite female serial killers as well!
You used leeches as a “medieval” medical practice. 1) 16th c is not medieval 2) Modern science has proven that leeches produce blood thinners and also antibiotics which are helpful in treating blood clots and infections. Just sayin’.
Because I’m actually a historic murder writer and tour guide myself, and struggle with the same question in constructing stories… can I be harsh and say.. what do you mean when you say, “I heard a story?”
If I was leading a historic tour, I couldn’t say, “I heard” or “I read” something, and I don’t think a history podcast can either. People would instantly question everything I said. Bathory was centuries ago, there’s no “word on the street” to say “I heard” like she’s Ted Cruz. What’s the source? What does that mean?
When I say, “Okay, this might be folklore” in one of my stories, I instantly see people roll their eyes. So, I understand why they say ‘I heard’ as an attempt to condense a longer discussion, but having told similar murder stories in front of live, responsive audiences, I’m just trying to explain what will definitely be on an important segment of the audience’s mind when they hear “I read that X happened” because I’ve faced thousands of audience folks live discussing these unsolved murder stories. You’ve got to decide to say succinctly that something probably happened… or wade into the weeds of explaining uncertain sources. I get that that’s tricky to do sometimes because I do it every night, but that’s the challenge you set for yourself.murders.
Love the show btw, love the topic! Just thought I’d suggest what seemed like an easy correction. if you get more specific, u can say, “a handmaiden reported that Bathory did X, Y, and Z” and you don’t have to say “but maybe she was lying” or “I read somewhere”
I completely agree with this! As someone who is really fascinating about these things, it’d be super awesome if they listed sources. Not even necessarily in an academic citation or anything, just like links to all the places they drew information. I’d love this so that I could do more searching myself and find relevant reading/viewing material. I understand keeping the show casual, because it’s murder with friends, not murder with professors.
In any case, I’m obsessed with this show. Really happy I found it – I just happened to stumble across it because it was mentioned on Aggressive Progressives. I was looking for another show with Grace because I think she’s really great. You guys need to advertise this show more – even if it’s a little different from the mainstream TYT stuff. It’s that diversification of viewing material that really makes my subscription feel worthwhile.
This is a timely tale. I first heard of Bathory when I was 14—many moons ago, when you had to get your information from a library—and it was in the context of studying vampires. I was just starting to write my own stories (instead of fan fiction, which was a thing long before the internet as well, I just shared mine in notebooks that my friends passed around, and they would comment in the margins). I never quite knew what to think about her. However, I think you touched on something that I believe is likely the catalyst for all of the tales: women were gaining more freedoms far more quickly than men felt comfortable with, and we can see around us what happens when those who benefit from the status quo feel threatened. There is a backlash.
I think it’s possible that she experimented on some people in her quest for medical knowledge, and I think it’s possible that she meted out some cruel punishments on lower-level servants, but I think the rest is either made up entirely or her servants were responsible for some violence and mayhem. Nobility were smart enough to stay in the good graces of their closest servants, especially a woman without her husband around. There had to be trust. I think she trusted the wrong people, otherwise her upper level servants could have run off when they were in a big city. The only people who accused her of serious wrongdoing were either political opponents (or those who benefitted from her demise) or those who were tortured first. That’s a huge red flag. Especially given that the king also benefitted from it.
I don’t think she was any better or worse than comparable nobility at the time. I think she was just very unfortunate, and possibly bit off more than she could chew, politically speaking.
Aaaaah! Grace took my suggestion! I look forward to watching this episode. The Elizabeth Bathory case is so macabre, and I think that’s what makes it fascinating.
Very cool episode. Knew about her and had a lot of the same thoughts about it… 650…?!?! Ehhhh…. that’s a lot of people…. and especially without her testifying… you know she was just sitting there like…. “damn them… they are framing me….”or then again maybe she was sitting there putting blood moisturizer all over herself.
I am curious why you refer to Elizabeth Bathory in the title as Madame, and not her title of Countess?
I am glad you gave context to her time since it was very hard for a single woman not to have her life and/or property taken by the people who had power over her. It might not be a good idea to loan money to your king-or have more money than him…..
Despite the embellishment, every time I hear about the experiments where old rats run their mazes more accurately and faster after being transfused with younger rats’ blood, I do think of the Countess.
Have you guys watched Stay Alive? Its a movie based off of the original story, much like you explained. Only it’s more in a pop culture sense. The movie definitely has its own spin on the tale, but still a good movie to watch for your daily dose of freakiness.
Indeed! I love it! Though it’s horrible to say I’m a fan of murder lol cause I’m not, but I love detective series, murder mysteries, and I find all of this pretty fascinating, even though I certainly feel horrible for the victims. The mind of a murderer is just intriguing.
Thank you for a new installment of one of my favorite TYT addictions. I have been hungering to look at some very old cases with a far more modern mindset than anyone of the time could have brought to the case. Báthory and Vladamir are both such iconic figures, yet when you strip away the vampiric mythos you have to grapple with the fact that they were real people as well. You have to wonder what went wrong. More than anything, it seems it was the era itself that was wrong. Thank goodness humanity grows up a bit each century. Serfdom would have killed me, I am sure.
Props to you guys for taking Báthory on. It’s so hard to really research things that happened centuries ago just because of the attitude of credibility for nutty things of the time seeps into the record (fornicating with the devil, seriously???), the enlightenment of our current scientific grasp is so far removed from what they had availible and often the deeper political issues are well hidden to do more than guess at their influence… which, in fact, does have an accurate reflection in our own times :P .
Note to self, keep an eagle eye on politics and power players!
Comments
It is definitely possible for Bathory to have responsible for 600 deaths. Most of the girls murdered were children of peasants and back then, peasant deaths weren’t recorded, no one had enough power to get authorities to look into the death because peasant deaths didn’t matter. What got Bathory into trouble was when they ran out of young, pretty peasant girls and her servants (aides) went out and got more “respectable” girls to murder.
I too would much rather watch a more realistic Game of Thrones type of film on Countess Bathory than the current horror films. I have always found Countess Bathory suspicious given her power. Thank you for covering her. She is one of my favorite female serial killers as well!
I’d rather watch the second one, even though I find it interesting that Julie Delpy did a role like that.
And thanks for standing up for 40 year olds!
You used leeches as a “medieval” medical practice. 1) 16th c is not medieval 2) Modern science has proven that leeches produce blood thinners and also antibiotics which are helpful in treating blood clots and infections. Just sayin’.
Because I’m actually a historic murder writer and tour guide myself, and struggle with the same question in constructing stories… can I be harsh and say.. what do you mean when you say, “I heard a story?”
If I was leading a historic tour, I couldn’t say, “I heard” or “I read” something, and I don’t think a history podcast can either. People would instantly question everything I said. Bathory was centuries ago, there’s no “word on the street” to say “I heard” like she’s Ted Cruz. What’s the source? What does that mean?
When I say, “Okay, this might be folklore” in one of my stories, I instantly see people roll their eyes. So, I understand why they say ‘I heard’ as an attempt to condense a longer discussion, but having told similar murder stories in front of live, responsive audiences, I’m just trying to explain what will definitely be on an important segment of the audience’s mind when they hear “I read that X happened” because I’ve faced thousands of audience folks live discussing these unsolved murder stories. You’ve got to decide to say succinctly that something probably happened… or wade into the weeds of explaining uncertain sources. I get that that’s tricky to do sometimes because I do it every night, but that’s the challenge you set for yourself.murders.
Love the show btw, love the topic! Just thought I’d suggest what seemed like an easy correction. if you get more specific, u can say, “a handmaiden reported that Bathory did X, Y, and Z” and you don’t have to say “but maybe she was lying” or “I read somewhere”
I completely agree with this! As someone who is really fascinating about these things, it’d be super awesome if they listed sources. Not even necessarily in an academic citation or anything, just like links to all the places they drew information. I’d love this so that I could do more searching myself and find relevant reading/viewing material. I understand keeping the show casual, because it’s murder with friends, not murder with professors.
In any case, I’m obsessed with this show. Really happy I found it – I just happened to stumble across it because it was mentioned on Aggressive Progressives. I was looking for another show with Grace because I think she’s really great. You guys need to advertise this show more – even if it’s a little different from the mainstream TYT stuff. It’s that diversification of viewing material that really makes my subscription feel worthwhile.
good stuff, I have degrees in history and i enjoyed the work. keep it up
I just stumbled onto Lois Jurgens on wikipedia. Chilling, would love to see an episode on her!
Great historical context, i’m loving the show more every week
You guys should do the smiley face killers and the long Island beach murders!
Well Game of Thrones was inspired by The War of the Roses. It’s more like Game of Thrones is super real life, other than the dragons.
This is a timely tale. I first heard of Bathory when I was 14—many moons ago, when you had to get your information from a library—and it was in the context of studying vampires. I was just starting to write my own stories (instead of fan fiction, which was a thing long before the internet as well, I just shared mine in notebooks that my friends passed around, and they would comment in the margins). I never quite knew what to think about her. However, I think you touched on something that I believe is likely the catalyst for all of the tales: women were gaining more freedoms far more quickly than men felt comfortable with, and we can see around us what happens when those who benefit from the status quo feel threatened. There is a backlash.
I think it’s possible that she experimented on some people in her quest for medical knowledge, and I think it’s possible that she meted out some cruel punishments on lower-level servants, but I think the rest is either made up entirely or her servants were responsible for some violence and mayhem. Nobility were smart enough to stay in the good graces of their closest servants, especially a woman without her husband around. There had to be trust. I think she trusted the wrong people, otherwise her upper level servants could have run off when they were in a big city. The only people who accused her of serious wrongdoing were either political opponents (or those who benefitted from her demise) or those who were tortured first. That’s a huge red flag. Especially given that the king also benefitted from it.
I don’t think she was any better or worse than comparable nobility at the time. I think she was just very unfortunate, and possibly bit off more than she could chew, politically speaking.
Great episode! Looking forward to the next!
Aaaaah! Grace took my suggestion! I look forward to watching this episode. The Elizabeth Bathory case is so macabre, and I think that’s what makes it fascinating.
Very cool episode. Knew about her and had a lot of the same thoughts about it… 650…?!?! Ehhhh…. that’s a lot of people…. and especially without her testifying… you know she was just sitting there like…. “damn them… they are framing me….”or then again maybe she was sitting there putting blood moisturizer all over herself.
I am curious why you refer to Elizabeth Bathory in the title as Madame, and not her title of Countess?
I am glad you gave context to her time since it was very hard for a single woman not to have her life and/or property taken by the people who had power over her. It might not be a good idea to loan money to your king-or have more money than him…..
Despite the embellishment, every time I hear about the experiments where old rats run their mazes more accurately and faster after being transfused with younger rats’ blood, I do think of the Countess.
Loved this episode – never gave much thought to the idea that the tale was probably super embellished!
LOVE this show! LOVE Grace! Woo!
This show is absolutely fantastic. I look forward to this every single week.
Have you guys watched Stay Alive? Its a movie based off of the original story, much like you explained. Only it’s more in a pop culture sense. The movie definitely has its own spin on the tale, but still a good movie to watch for your daily dose of freakiness.
This show is a hidden gem. Grace does a great job with it.
Indeed! I love it! Though it’s horrible to say I’m a fan of murder lol cause I’m not, but I love detective series, murder mysteries, and I find all of this pretty fascinating, even though I certainly feel horrible for the victims. The mind of a murderer is just intriguing.
Thank you for a new installment of one of my favorite TYT addictions. I have been hungering to look at some very old cases with a far more modern mindset than anyone of the time could have brought to the case. Báthory and Vladamir are both such iconic figures, yet when you strip away the vampiric mythos you have to grapple with the fact that they were real people as well. You have to wonder what went wrong. More than anything, it seems it was the era itself that was wrong. Thank goodness humanity grows up a bit each century. Serfdom would have killed me, I am sure.
Props to you guys for taking Báthory on. It’s so hard to really research things that happened centuries ago just because of the attitude of credibility for nutty things of the time seeps into the record (fornicating with the devil, seriously???), the enlightenment of our current scientific grasp is so far removed from what they had availible and often the deeper political issues are well hidden to do more than guess at their influence… which, in fact, does have an accurate reflection in our own times :P .
Note to self, keep an eagle eye on politics and power players!
I loved it! Tuesday’s are my favorite day :)
Oooooh, What’s this I see? A new Murder with Friends? Don’t mind if I do!
Is that blue I see?