Hackers leaks Leslie Jones’ nudes. High school athlete gets probation for rape. Anti-Muslim protesters in Czech Republic dress up as ISIS terrorists. Florida not compensating for Pulse Nightclub massacre first responder’s mental health treatment. Cops in France enforce “no burkini” law.
Comments
Ana! You really have to speak your mind! :-)
Ana! Post the picture! MUAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!
Agreed on Burkini, why would anyone care what people wear to the beach? Straight up anti Muslim sentiment.
Another great show guys. recruited 3 more people last night who had never heard of TYT. I hope they join.
On the Burkini story in France. The reason Ana is wrong is because some Muslim women can claim they want to wear it just like the Hijab, normal Burka, but this law is protecting and helping all the Muslim women who are forced and blackmailed into wearing these horrible cultural not religious garments.
How is forcing a woman to strip in public at gun point “protecting” her? How does that make France morally superior to a country that does the exact opposite?
Plus this law did not technically specify the Burkini, it attacked all “religious garb”. How many Turban wearing Sikhs were forced to pay fines? How many nuns? How many cross wearing women? How many Orthodox Jewish women?
I was describing Frances general policy to the veil being banned, which was controversial at the time but is now widely accepted by the population as the right measure and seen as a good thing.
The women who continue to wear it when it is against the law, and are loudly protesting the right to veil themselves are hurting the vast majority of Muslim women, who are not wearing it by choice. What you don’t hear is those who love the ban on the veil and now this, because it is giving them the excuse to not be forced to cover legally.
The inconvenience of a minority of women that want to wear garb that takes away part of their identity, is worth all the women whom have had to live their life forced to cover themselves. Also a number f the women who are protesting this likely don’t really want to. The same reason in the US domestic abusers should get their gun taken away for a period of time when their partner shows up in the system/hospital/presses charges.
That takes away rights but the benefit is greater to do so. If one women doesn’t get beaten/raped for ‘dishonouring’ herself by taking off her handcuffs in the form of the burka or Hijab it is worth it.
Just recently their was a Muslim woman who was beat to death by her father for going to the cinema with a man not in her family, in France.
Banned in public BTW not in private at home.
Hi ! I’m a french member and I wanted to explain the whole Burkini thing.
France has a very, very different view of religion freedom than the USA have. We also have a very different “integration” model. You know how TYT likes to make fun of mainstream media “50% GOP 50% DEM, who’s right we don”t know” stance ? Like there’s no real truth and if Trump says something totally out there its reported as well as if Hillary says something true ? Well you have to think about this while trying to understand France’s stance on religion. To us its not like “50% of speech time for atheism and reason / 50% of speech time for religions”, no. France is really secular and built on enlightenment. We have a tough stance on all religions. You’ll never see our serious politician defend religions or pray or even making oath on the bible. We think Truth and Reason are something so important that we put them BEFORE religious freedom. Its not like “some think women are equal, some think they should cover their body because of god or men lust”. No. Its the same with integration its really different than the US. For us, we see the US as a country with multiple communities. Multiple states too. Here we have one state, and we try to keep one republican togetherness. So while in school or in public services you shouldnt show your religious appartenance. School never taught creationism or religious values in France. Funny thing is, to us the US is all about communautarism. But with Trump and the likes, it seems even some of your own citizen doesnt have a clue about what the US model of integreation is. Anyway, considering the Burkini we see it as a political/religious push of an ideology. There never was a thing about Burkini before that. How strange it appeared right after huge radical islam pushs in some suburbs and big terrorist attacks… Its because we’re a secular, progressive country and its because we hate people fighting feminism and tolerance that we try to ban those things. Same with scientology, its been ruled illegal in France. And the catholic church is watched closely (but it doesnt have much power anymore). Some right wing parties are trying to use that in order to condemn ALL muslims and all people wearing hijabs not just Burkinis.;. So we must be carrefull. Yet, you have to understand from where we are coming from.
France is coming from the screw personal freedom point. We see it, we just think its obnoxious and fearful. If your ideals are not powerful enough to stand without the use of force, then your ideals suck.
I dont know if I can seriously answer a comment ending with “your ideal sucks”.. yet: you dont seem to undertand my point: its an historical difference. We just dont value freedom before life or truth. For ex to some of you the second amndt and freedom to bear arms is more important than countless gun related deaths. In France holocaust denial or expressions of racism are punished by the law. People are goin to jail over that. Because to us there are limits to ones freedom. Trump could ve been sent to court here for what he said about mexicans. It seems to me you think freedom is the only way to judge a society but its Because you fail to look at other societies. I m totally ok giving up my right to bear ak47 or be a nazi or preach violent islamism. Its how we were raised. It seems to me Trump or mass shootings can tell u something about how the cult of personnal freedom and “anything goes” is not perfect.
I am also French and this is NOT a law in France. Quite the contrary, it is a town ordinance by about 10 out of the 35000 towns in France, and a case of mostly rightwing mayors trying to create a wedge issue and make political hay.
This sort of thing happens all the time in towns, cities and even states in the US and no one confuses it with the law of the land or the will of the people. But many Americans for some reason are predisposed to believe any smear against France.
In fact the ban has already been suspended in France’s highest court for violating civil rights and is working it’s way through the process to be officially overturned.
That said, France does have a different take on separation of church and religion than the US. The banning of religious signs in government (including public schools) IS a law and best demonstrates the difference. In the US the emphasis is that the government can not interfere with religious practice. In France, the emphasis is that religion can not be part of government functioning.
There is no 1st amendment in France, although there are similar concepts enshrined in France’s various legal documents. But even in the US, there are restrictions on free speech, freedom of religion and rights of the press.
Again it comes down to a battle of ideas. You are just as wrong as those you impose by enforcing a dress code. Its not a historical issue unless you take into account people being hypocrites and Historical difference.
Science and reason do not occur in a vacuum. Thinking they do is quite simply naive. I love how you make this a 2nd amendment issue… when i could care less about that at the moment. Wearing a piece of clothing is in no way the same as carrying an AK47, or acting like a Nazi. Even being a racist/ bigot should be allowable because if you outlaw it, how will you know? Your law or “Ordnance” wont change a damn thing and you will drive the feeling under ground.
The “Cult of anything goes” [given you want historical context and all] Is a far from a cult… what you are talking about is a new phenomenon in American culture. It really has no basis on Americas history at all.
You and those pushing this are actually more akin to trump voters, religious right wingers and the 2nd amendment fanatics. You want to legislate YOUR feelings at the detriment of others.
It is actually disgusting. And your ideas, unable to stand on their own, need rules and legislation to prop them up. And sadly, the idea that a woman needs to cover herself is bad enough, but that you want to make that simple act illegal is far far worse.
I have to say I have to disagree Paranood. I’m a UK member with parents living in France a great deal of experience of France and the whole Burka thing is just an emerging trend in France towards trying to impose a state control over an aspect of personal choice. If state schools refuse to provide entry to people unless there is an agreement on a uniform code – that I can understand. But what a woman wears in her free time is her own business. These police remind me of the guys in Saudi Arabia that drag women from cars if they have no chaperone. In Europe we have a far, far larger Muslim population – in the UK it happens to be from Pakistan. But you know what – maybe if the UK hadn’t taken over India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, and if France hadn’t taken over the Maghreb maybe we wouldn’t have this issue. They came to our countries because in many cases they were invited – the Uk certainly did at the end of the war to replenish our working population that had been decimated by war and bombings on our major cities. It’s a little rich of us to then impose arbitrary rules based on nothing more than the fact that elements of our population are afraid of things that are different. I sometimes get tired when I watch things like the Bill maher show hearing about how much better a job the US has done of integration of their Muslim population when actually the reasons include a) that they have far fewer Muslims at around 1% of the population compared to our 4%, 2) that they are more widely dispersed – in the UK the city of Birmingham now has a 17% Muslim population, and 3) that many Islamic countries in North Africa can literally get in a small boat and sail to Europe so come and then disappear. That’s impossible in the US. We also don’t have a police force that guns down black people like animals on an almost daily basis. But let’s not throw stones sitting as we are in houses built of the purest crystal :). My own opinion of Burkinis is to actually deal with them via humour – simply point out that they are medieval garments being worn by women who are sometimes pressured by their community but who frequently are younger women trying to rebel against their more libertarian parents. Also – I really wouldn’t brag about the French enlightenment versus the US. The French enlightenment ended with Napoleon Bonaparte, the deaths of 2 million Europeans and the largest state intelligence apparatus prior to Hitler. And as for comparing the French political system favourably against Donald trump. Remind me again who got 18% of the vote and came second in France’s 2002 Presidential election.
So we’ll agree to disagree. But let me be clear : I lived in the US and I’m french. Studied Political Sciences and I published a thesis on french far right. First thing first : I hear your point on Jean Marie Lepen in 2002. Yet, Jean Marie Lepen IS NO TRUMP. A lot of people comparing the two either don’t know Trump well enough or don’t know JMLP well enough. LePen was the son of a poor sailor. Lived in poverty during his childhood. Fought the colonial wars for France and was France’s most younger deputy at his time. His kind of right wing is highly political and “cultural”. What I mean by that is that he’s been running for elections for 60 years. If you ever heard him speak he can litteraly quote 19th century french writers from the heart. He does it often. Trump on the other hand has no political culture and no culture at all. He sounds like a 5 year old. Sure he’s a populist, but he’ll just say whatever his audience wanna hear (have you heard about his latest flip flop on immigration ?). And in fact Lepen’s far right is linked to Elitism and what used to be french monarchism. He knows his Barres by heart. It doesnt mean its not a dangerous far right. But its not a stupid one. Maybe more dangerous for that matter. Then, if you take his daughter stances on politics a lot of them would be consider leftist by USA’s GOP. She’s a colbertist that want the government to impose taxes and she’s for raising the minimum wages and putting tarifs in place. Trump said some things like that, but the GOP platform is nowhere near that. Then on the Burkini : All I was trying to show is that in France you have a real case for leftist fighting against religions. Let me ask you : How many muslim died last year for practicing their religion in France ? None. Who died for their opinion in France ? Political cartoonists. People making satire. They were killed. Not muslims. Bigotery exist in France, and yes we have been a colonial state. But its not the case anymore. Left and progressive in france fought real hard against Catholicism. Now we fight against the worst cases of Islam radicalism. You think that the state imposing control over personal choice is a newq thing is france but its not. You’re from the UK, some are from the US but any frenchman knows that the state in france aand its administration have been indeed and for a long time imposing rules and controls. Sometime it sucks, like for some companies and such… But yeah, we have a culture that doesnt allow some things as free speech : racism, sexism, hate speech, holocaust denial… You can be fined for displaying a swastika. etc… Funny thing is, in the US for ex you cannot swear on live tv ! But strangely Trump can be as racist as he wants. Here in France you can swear on tv but you cannot say racist things. And yes you cannot push your backwards views on women neither. There were NO problems with burkini before the last 2 years in France. So yes, we have reason to think that its a political play by some radical associations. I dont think the hijab must be bann from any private or public paces at all. But the Burka which cover everything or the Burkini wich is often a political way of pushing religion is something else. If the Burkini or the Burka were indeed in the coran or in any sacred texts we’d can argue. But they are not. They only exist in certain parts of the world that have a very specific view about women’s right. France will not be complicit in that.
No Jews died practicing their religion in Germany until 7 years after anti-Semitic laws were passed. Plus terrorists are criminals and one cannot compare apples with oranges.
Marine Le Pen’s niece’s rhetoric is outright Nazi when she basically tells 4th generation muslims (who are far more progressive on social issues than the French native population and about as religious) you are our enemies until you leave your religion, a religion they do not even practice according to the majority of studies.
Sec86379 you’re going to far comparing Marine Le Pen to nazis. Jean Marie Le Pen was the first to put forward an elected muslim in France. Because he was for the French algery and he had many muslim friends that were on his side. He was allways more antisemitic than against arabs. He was close to Saddam Hussein too.
Marine Le Pen does have tough words on terrorism and security but from what I know she never asked muslims to leave their religion. And her rethoric is nothing near Trump. Actually, a lot of muslim living in the poor suburbs have been recently attracted by the Front National. Because of its conservative values and because of some degree of antisemitism and conspiracy theories. Dieudonné audience is known for being close the The Lepen, and they are young dissafected muslims… So its more complicated than it looks.
I said the rhetoric by Marine Le Pen’s niece, a rising star in the party, was Nazi. She has been at loggerheads with her aunt on her courting to the muslim vote especially in the south where the FN was pretty successful in dragging a third of all muslims there to their camp because she promised them what they wanted all along, a French state that cares about the Banlieus instead of leaving them behind or actually making deals with gangs like Sarkozy did when he was mayor of Paris.
No good comes from that rhetoric.
There are at least a dozen relatively large municipalities in the US with a higher % of muslims than Manchester or Birmingham and much poorer than either.
Bill Maher to his credit put his hand on the wound, Europeans (excluding Brits) are still insular, authoritarian and bigoted in their very core. The idea of freedom for all does not compute, either you conform with our view of life or you don’t, a view that by the way changed quite drastically over the last 30 years. That is why when an EU member like Bulgaria does what the Turkish government did and cancel Pride day no European government even hisses against Bulgaria but will raise hell against Turkey for homophobia.
The US, where ISIS servers and network admins live and spew their hatred protected by the first amendment, does not have an ISIS problem because what a person wears or which god he prays to in none of the business of any goddam government official and therefore their followers are small in number and quit limited in effect.
When you corner people in Europe do not expect them to bow down, expect them to fight back and that is what is going to happen in France.
Nonsense and you know it.
Not only direct government intervention in Muslim affairs from mosque building all the way to Imams and their education goes in the face of Laicite, the Catholic church is exempt from laicite laws in religious education, in several departments in France in Alsace-Lorraine religious laws supersede the 1905 law (which is why muslims can’t build mosques there) and Jews have their own built in exemptions with regards to anti-Semitism to guarantees of independence of religious organisations, financing and exercise.
But the greatest crime committed here is against freedom, laicite as applied in France is the antithesis of the concept and idea of Freedom. So long as muslim freedoms do not harm the freedoms of others they must do whatever they want, this is in essence the meaning of the 1789 declaration of human rights that France brags about.
When Laicite as the French understand it, which is not what the originators of the word intended, go into a confrontation with Freedom, Freedom supersedes Laicite.
That is why there are less than 100 ISIS fighters from American extraction and 3000 French ISIS fighters.
I am also French and this is NOT a law in France. Quite the contrary, it is a town ordinance by about 10 out of the 35000 towns in France, and a case of mostly rightwing mayors trying to create a wedge issue and make political hay.
This sort of thing happens all the time in towns, cities and even states in the US and no one confuses it with the law of the land or the will of the people. But many Americans for some reason are predisposed to believe any smear against France.
In fact the ban has already been suspended in France’s highest court for violating civil rights and is working it’s way through the process to be officially overturned.
That said, France does have a different take on separation of church and religion than the US. The banning of religious signs in government (including public schools) IS a law and best demonstrates the difference. In the US the emphasis is that the government can not interfere with religious practice. In France, the emphasis is that religion can not be part of government functioning.
There is no 1st amendment in France, although there are similar concepts enshrined in France’s various legal documents. But even in the US, there are restrictions on free speech, freedom of religion and rights of the press.
Sorry about the misplaced replies. As a lot of web stuff at tyt, this forum sucks. You can’t delete or edit, and the placement of replies is not apparent.
Responding to sec86379. Your argument has many fallacies, but the easiest to debunk is your proof/conclusion, “That is why there are less than 100 ISIS fighters from American extraction and 3000 French ISIS fighters”.
Leaving aside the fact that France is much closer to the middle east and has a colonial history there, and has a much higher percent of citizens of middle eastern background, and assuming your numbers are correct., your use of those numbers alone don’t pass muster. The US has 5.5 times more people than France, and nearly 10 times more muslims by percentage. Taking that 55x difference into account means that the US produces almost twice as many ISIS fighters from it’s available pool than France (55 vs 100).
OK, what applies in to the US applies to the UK, Germany and the Netherlands (still pre-Wilders thankfully) and none of these suffer the same problems as France. In the UK specifically despite the control of the most extremist groups on Scottish mosques if I am not mistaken no Scottish muslim left for ISIS and the only religious violence act I could find was an Englishman killing a muslim Scot for not being muslim enough.
As for the colonial history, that history ended 60 years ago and these are 3rd and 4th generation people (2nd in some cases) and its effect is negligible. If you remember the riots of 2005 one wise Frenchman predicted all what was going to happen because the French state resigned its responsibility to those people.
History did not end 60 years ago, certainly not with respect to France and its former colonies. That is so far from the truth it is astonishing that one would advance it as argument. We’ve heard about “history ending” before. It was declared such by Francis Fukuyama and applauded by the pundits of the time 25 years ago. It’s been nothing but smooth sailing for European Western Democracy since.
The UK has plenty of people who have left to join ISIS. Jihadi John for example? Remember the Scottish girl who was an ISIS recruiter?
As far as the French riots and demonstrations of 2005, they were not religious nor was Al-Qaeda, etc involved. They grew out of cultural alienation, discrimination and economic hardship. And the match was sparked when two banlieue youth died after being And here is an interesting statistic that does compare the UK and France which have the same population (about 63M)-
During the 20 nights of rioting, there were 8973 cars reported burned in France, or an average of 225 cars a night. This figure includes all sources, including those burned for insurance, which became a thing during the riots and people were sentenced to jail when caught on cctv.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_French_riots#Summary_statistics
On an AVERAGE night in the UK, there are 300 cars burned each night
http://www.fireservice.co.uk/safety/car-fires
That’s right, there are 75 cars more burned in the UK per day than even when there are “riots” in French cities.
And the US has had riots and demonstrations too, for years , often also sparked by interactions between disaffected youth and the police or legal system. You know the names.
IS THERE NO EDITING HERE?
The sentence should have been “And the match was sparked when two banlieue youth died after being pursued by the police.”
“But the greatest crime committed here is against freedom, laicite as applied in France is the antithesis of the concept and idea of Freedom. So long as muslim freedoms do not harm the freedoms of others they must do whatever they want, this is in essence the meaning of the 1789 declaration of human rights that France brags about. ”
What you don’t get is that the idea of freedom is very different depending the countries/political system/history. As I said earlier, freedom in France has never been absolute. You’re nitpicking about laicite not apllying in some part of france but its detail. Same for the mosque, in fact the state doesnt have a thing to do with that wich mean lots of them are funded by foreign countries. As for ISIS fighters, of course we have much more of them just look at a map ! The idea that ISIS would send people to the US is just crazy. We have open borders in europe and a colonial history that makes us a target of choice. I’ve never said our system is perfect, and laicite does pose problems in a post modern world. Yet you must understand that your conception of freedom has nothing to do with ours. And the Declaration of human right was written in 1789 while the laicité laws were written in 1905. Actually we are much more willing to modify our constitution and principles compared to the US where the constitution seems to be set in stone for some ppl. I gave you multiple exemples. You could argue that scientology is a religion, its banned here. And truth be told, the burka and burkini have nothing to do with Islam. They only exist in fringes, they’re not in the Coran and not even in the Sunnah. It appeared recently in some ultra conservative countries and it does infringe on the freedom of others (IE women). I’m all for them being banned from the public schools etc… Banning it from the beaches is going a lil too far, yet considering our view of religion and freedom its not that shocking that some mayor tried to pass it.
In 1943, Gen. Patton slapped two soldiers who had no visible signs of injury, although they were in hospital tents. He said they were cowards. Gen. Eisenhower ordered him to apologize. At least one of the soldiers was diagnosed with “neuropsychosis.” In WWI, it was referred to as “Shell Shock;” the fictional Mrs. Patmore, cook on “Downton Abbey,” had a nephew, Archie, who was shot for cowardice due to shell shock and thus his name couldn’t be placed among those of the dead on the local memorial, echoing such actual incidents. The current PTSD insurance denial incident is just the latest example of the same position.
I think you guys are making a mistake by identifying with SJWs. The term arose to describe exactly what you guys are against, people being abusive on the Internet and in real life in the same of “social justice”. I’ve been physically assaulted by a girl who prides herself on being an SJW, she ripped braids I had tucked into my hair bun out and said “braids are for black girls, not dirty fucking white bread like you”. I’ve been told to kill myself for posting a picture of myself on Tumblr, because I was wearing a tshirt with the Indian Motorcycle logo on it. I was five years old and it was my dad’s shirt. I’ve been accused of “cultural appropriation” for having a nose ring, doing squats, and getting hair extensions. Theres many sites online dedicated to doxxing so called racists and celebrities just like Leslie Jones (except they tend to be white celebrities) for something they said years ago or some other perceived slight. Those people are SJWs and do nothing for the progressive movement except give fodder to Conservatives to tear it apart. They lie, create false narratives (Anita Sarkeesian is a prime example of this) and accusations, and abuse anyone who doesn’t fall in line with their ideology.
Nothing that happened to Leslie Jones was remotely acceptable, but it wasn’t done by anti-SJWS, it was done by legitimate racists. Anti SJWs are often progressive people who want to protect the movement from liars who want attention, not any kind of social progress. SJWs are the ones who forced the scientist who landed that probe on the comet to tearfully apologize, bullied Benedict Cumberbatch into apologizing for saying “coloured people”, took away the yoga program for students with disabilities at u Ottawa (which I as a student would have greatly benefited from), and who cry racism when food isn’t spicey enough. They’re the farthest left of the left, commanding unrelenting obedience to their narrative. And if you don’t comply, they “drag you” on any social media site they can and attempt to get you fired if they can find any personal information.
You guys are the furthest thing from SJWs, you actually have sense and decency and I highly suggest you look into that dark, non productive side of the liberal movement which takes credibility away from logical progressives.
I’m confused. I have heard about the bukini, but until I saw one …. wow.
How is the burkini more “acceptable” than a woman wearing a pantsuit and a hijab?
Do they wear the burkini in Saudi Arabia, etc?