I really want to like Wess, he’s awesome and fascinating in every way. But when he starts talking about Arabs He shits the bed. Would love to have misinterpreted him.
Ben you know better, Homeland might be a great show entertainment wise, but it is not fair and it is discriminatory.
Homeland is nuanced? Seriously? Cenk… I think the Palestinians should be thankful not only for the “separation” wall but also for the occupation huh?… Dude this was a downer. At least Dave Rubin is honest. This is pathetic. Even on the Israeli spectrum your remarks would be considered pretty right wing. Does that make you feel good Cenk? I bet it does…
Firstly I think Wes raises a lot of good to excellent points and questions and theories, he adds greatly to Old School. Secondly, I have not seen or heard (on Old School) Wes saying any type of blanket statement re: I hate Muslims and kill Muslims etc, perhaps it fits a pre-conceived opinion of Wes or his father, or fits a narrative, you misheard/misunderstood or your reality is interpreting what he said in an incorrect manner. I find Wes’s contributions to be well informed, nuanced and different from my own which I love to learn from.
Where is the discussion about the Uygur Prima Notte? Was it cut out of this episode? Cenk referenced it in Thursday’s post game, and there was a brief mention of it at 48:20. I wonder if there was some self-censorship going on.
noticed the exact same thing. in the thursday post game cenk mentioned that ben wanted no parts of the discussion that spawned the “Uygur prima notis.” I’m thinking ben had it cut out.
Old School is even better with Wes. The last four episodes included personal stories from another continent. That adds more value to the show. His stories from within the US are entertaining as well.
Also, they don’t seem to add too many started stories on top of the stack before they unwind the stack.They have been managing that well lately.
He want’s to put muslims in camps fo rthought crimes and political beliefs, remember, these are people who have committed no crime – but to him it doesn’t matter. Now I see where Wes gets his islamaphobia from. I really thought him & his dad were two of the good guys, what a damn disappointment.
Later the General tried to claim he wasn’t referring to only Muslims, but to all forms of radicals – however, in the article it is clear he was referring to Muslims since he said that we were at “war” with these people & other references that suggest he was talking about Muslims.
Could be you just have a hell of a time understanding people who don’t make the parrot noises you’re use to.
That was five months ago.
I’ll let someone else respond to you but they should first read Wesley’s own words before taking your radicalized version of it.
“We have got to identify the people who are most likely to be radicalized. We’ve got to cut this off at the beginning,” Clark said.
“On a national policy level, we need to look at what self-radicalization means, because we are at war with this group of terrorists,” the former top military commander added. “They do have an ideology. In World War II, if someone supported Nazi Germany at the expense of the United States, we didn’t say that was freedom of speech, we put him in a camp, they were prisoners of war.”
He continued: “If these people are radicalized and they don’t support the United States and they are disloyal to the United States, as a matter of principle, fine. It’s their right, and it’s our right and obligation to segregate them from the normal community for the duration of the conflict.”
That’s right, you’re locking people up for their beliefs, even when they have no intention of acting on those beliefs – why don’t they just track those people and follow them? Put them under surveillance, I would be for that just to make sure nothing happens, but this guy wants to lock them up for political beliefs, that isn’t American.
Remember, he made specific references to terrorism by islam/muslim by using words like “we are at war with them” and that “Germany, britian, paris” needs to adopt techniques etc, then he tried to argue on a later day that he was referring to all forms of terrorism, not just muslims. lol
It’s really a shame because i used to really like Gen Wesley Clark, and his son Wes. The General also looked EXACTLY like my grandfather who had a high ranking military career similar to Gen Clark, similar mannerisms & political beliefs etc… it was uncanny the similarities, maybe that’s why I was devastated when I heard these statements.
I’ll let Wes or someone else respond to your slurs and slander.
You’re digging up a 5month old article to do character assassination of Wesley Clark’s son for what purpose?
Because I liked some of the points he made so now you have to do the Uygur maneuver and try to destroy someones rep with libel thinking that will help you win the upper ground?
I ain’t trying to win anything man, trust me, I was more disappointed than you were happy, and yes, I just saw this post since someone linked to it on my twitter feed a few days ago.
The reason I put this here is to suggest that maybe Wes’ disdain for muslims might have come from his dad, that is all – having said that, I don’t think it’s 100% that his dad has disdain for muslims, but I’m just presenting the connection.
I’m 36, it’s not about ‘winning’ anymore – maybe when i was 10-15 years younger it was, not anymore. I genuinely debate in the hope that I will learn something that I haven’t learnt or teach something to someone. Also, when I see characterizations that are unfair, I just can’t help myself – similar to you in this way.
I’ve learnt a few things from you and maybe you’ve picked up a few things from me. I was attracted to sam harris when I heard him say that he was open to learning & to some extent he is, but when he does the bias and cherry picking of stats (never talking about gallup poll on muslims and always talking about the flawed pew polls, and other things like this) that’s when I realized that it’s not entirely about an exchange of ideas for him, the selling of an agenda ranks highly for him unfortunately.
Let’s not forget you kept talking about civil dialog without insults & you kept going off at people before & after and when I asked you about the contradiction, your response was something to the effect of “i ain’t your friend” and “I’ll say what i like” and “if anyone takes offence at my insults then it’s their problem not mine” etc etc….
Maybe you were drunk that night, so I don’t want to be too quick to judge, but you had done this before several times while arguing against it… which is why I’d say it might not be too wise to say me or anyone else might be petty when that was your signature strike until recently. Again, the word “projection” comes to mind.
Having said that I know it can be hard to control emotions especially when there is disagreement, so maybe you just try your best and sometimes it doesn’t work out, or maybe you were drunk lol.
if you go back a few episodes, he said some disparaging things about muslims – including being ok with and wanting to kill them em mass or other, if you read the comments you’ll see (from previous episode i think it was or the one before).
I’ve heard of no such thing! If you’re going to accuse someone of wanting to ‘kill them em mass or other’ you must come with stronger evidence. If you’re referring to the December 2 episode of Old School, Wes said ‘fuck those guys’ in reference to the Baathists, who were members of Saddam’s party. If calling out tyrants is now seen as disparaging Muslims then yes, Wes has a ‘disdain’ for Muslims. I suppose next time me or someone else is critical of the Nazi Party you’ll accuse us of engaging in anti-Christian bigotry.
Feel free to the comments I wrote in relation to that, me and IRC447 spoke about that. These people are living under a tyranny, they don’t have the option to “choose” and they need to do whatever is necessary to get by, the correlation between what they do and what they’d rather do does not exist, since they don’t have the options to carve out their own lives.
I think saying “fuck them” and hoping for their murder is going way overboard, it’s typical of wes’ disregard for life especially if they are muslims lives.
On top of this he made a similar remark about killing germans where cenk said he doesn’t agree with that. Typical militarist’s disregard for life, I think it’s really unfortunate. Combined with his dads radical views, and wes considering voting for a military hawk Hillary over sanders… it all comes together to draw a compelling picture.
Sure I’m calling him out if he says things I feel are unreasonable, but I can’t entirely blame the guy, who knows what his upbringing was like, how much brainwashing he endured (if any) or what the circumstances outside of his control where that has lead to these opinions. It’s rather not be too judgmental, but I’m pointing out troubling things and criticizing them. I am not saying he is a bad or terrible irredeemable human being or anything like that. That is the sort of thing sam harris followers say about others.
Also, I’m not saying bathist party members should be free of criticism or justice, all I’m saying is calling for their murder is not ok. I thought you cared about muslims, I thought that’s why you were calling for reforms in their religion, to help them, no?
Oh wait, I forget sometimes, that’s just a cover you guys use to disguise others from the hate you guys spew.
How do you feel now that hate crimes against muslims around the world has risen sharply? Especially hate crimes by western white men against muslim women who wear hijabs? Beating them up, kickign them, tearing off their hijabs and humiliating them in public…?
You should be proud of your work, since you’ve all done a good job inciting those people and giving them the feeble minded arguments to justify their actions.
Be proud of your work, harris, maher, rubin & all their supporters.
Remember that saying Cenk sometimes quotes…?
“Lets avoid these beginning so that we may avoid those ends”.
On post game, Cenk was talking bout his doc visit and that he thought he had Crohn’s. Now it’s Celiac.
Ben mentions that the mozz sticks are from 7-11 like four times, and a min later Cenk is asking if they’re from the restaurant mentioned afterward. Cenk, next time you see your doc for a follow up, ask him to check you for Alzheimer’s, buddy. :)
It’s funny, with the new “A” team working Old School, I’m almost jonesing for a new Old School podcast more then a new TYT podcast. Probably due to the fact I tend to laugh my ass off during Old School and The Young Turks is sadly filled with stories of human depravity of one form or another. My new favorite day of the week is Thurs, Fri or Sat depending on when the new Old School podcast goes up, LMFAO.
100% Agree. Old School is on another level and I’m disappointed when it’s not on. Like you, I love TYT and I watch the show religiously but Old School has really fun stories and I usually have abdominal pain from laughing so hard! The regular show is incredibly important and It highlights stories that aren’t always mentioned on MSM but it can get a little dark sometimes. Old School touches on important subjects but It’s mostly about everyday things like food, weather and really anything they want to talk about. It’s basically the podcast version of Seinfeld!
It turns out that Wesley is silent lurker here as he said that I am “Russian troll”, and, apparently, a KGB spy or something. I am surprised that Wesley visits this comment section at all, but not surprised at his guessing about my supposed role here and elsewhere, considering his peculiar beliefs about other subjects, like, for example, Edward Snowden being Russian spy and other theories that born from paranoid conscience he inherited from his father, a Cold-War era general.
It is especially interesting since just recently there was a leak of some Russian internal analytic report where Snowden is called active CIA agent that only pretends to be NSA defector, and he is in Russia to undermine country’s security. Cold-War era hawks are still alive, and they are paranoid in both camps — they need no evidence for their claims.
Also, I just re-read my comments on Old School from the last few weeks to see if they can be seen as “trolling” by a neutral observer. Definitive behaviour of internet troll is provocative substance-less one-liners that instigate outrage and endless pointless bickering. There is no way to categorize my writing here as “trolling” since I always come to detailed concrete arguments (verifiable with Google search). Every reader can in just few clicks check those older comments and see if I am correct. I assert I have never made a “trolling” comment on TYT or elsewhere, ever; simply not my thing.
One way to assess a person’s character is to see if he/she is able to raise above his/her prejudices and biases and try to look at things objectively. Cenk tries to do that and he overcame himself on many fields (thanks to him and Ana, I corrected myself on important things, too), though not on Russia-related matters — and this is understandable, because just as Wesley, he is child of Cold War.
Since it was established that Wesley does read comments, and yet he was not able to acknowledge even a single thing that was corrected in comments to Old School in the last weeks (and not only by me, so, by Wesley’s standard, we have whole “troll KGB army” here, including Americans in it), it means that he can not overcome himself. Here were have found exact limit of Wesley’s open mindedness. After that limit, we deal with religious type of thought process, where arguments and reality do not exist any more. Paranoia is fundamental, low level emotion that in cases overcomes reason and blinds them from seeing anything rational.
It is similar how you can almost befriend someone and think that person is all around reasonable and rational, until you suddenly learn that he/she is e.g. anti-Semite. Some people have certain points where they loose attachment to reality. For Wesley, anti-Russian paranoia is such thing. As I mentioned before, not even insane neocon publications such as Daily Beast “report” things that Wesley believes in (for instance, like Russia carpet-bombing or Syria, which is ignorant nonsense — as it was explained in detail in comments to an earlier Old School show).
All rights, thank for correction. I did not see his comments, apparently. This adds to my point, though. Wesley was unable to neither admit nor contest even single critique point that I and others were making about his stances. He has shown that on some subjects he is not interested in reality, but only interested in his paranoid beliefs that are not attached to reality.
That is true, but we had Wesley’s response to the critiques in this video. It was complete denial of all critiques, hiding behind “Russian troll” claim. So it is not about him not replying to comments of mine or to some one else who was critical. It is just Wesley’s stance. “F**k the reality”, if to summarize in the style he talks in.
E.g. the “Russia carpet-bombing Syria” claim I mentioned above. Does Wesley care that carpet bombing is massive operation such as USA stopping 7 million tons of bombs in Asia in period of time from late 1950s to 1970s?
Russia bombs jihadists way more intensively that USA-led coalition, but in 2.5 months still only about 6 000 tons of bombs used. You can not carpet bomb with that amount because you will have nothing left for actual targets. So even if Russia would want to carpet bomb Syria, they physically could not with such relatively small effort. Russia only uses something like 1.5% of its air forces. If Russia wanted to carpet bomb, they certain could. And it would look totally different.
Also, the way how Russian air forces operate in Syria is known: some sorties are done when targets are determined beforehand, and others is when target date only comes to pilots when they are patrolling the sky. This is when the bomber just “making circles” in the air for some prolonged time and waiting if it will receive command to bomb target on specific coordinates. The Su-24 plane that was shot down by Turkey was working in this mode, as explained as Ministry of Defence and seen on path maps/timestamps. There is no room for carpet bombing in either of those two variants.
Also, along the line of usual bombs, Russia uses nearly half a dozen of guided bombs and missiles to destroy targets. But even unguided bombs are not dropped manually by pilots, automatic computer system that uses satellite data, speed, altitude of the bomber and even weather conditions decides at what point of time exactly a bomb should be released. This is Russian air forces are way more accurate (and it is seen on videos of unguided bombs use that MoD publishes) than Syrian air forces, that use older, not upgraded planes.
Finally, you have to count the length of the front line in Syria — it is colossal Only small portion of Russian bombings go to deep in jihadists territory areas. Most of them are dropped on them right on the front line. There is no point in carpet bombing there, you have to actually destroy concrete targets, or otherwise it would be pointless as the enemy would not be hit by bombs that are dropped just at random. Even more: carpet bombing in front line areas would after result in friendly fire situations.
Another aspect is that front line areas are almost deserted, so you can not kill lots civilians there even if you would do carpet bombing anyway. Even anti-Syrian humanitarian groups that are funded by StateDep grants were not able to ascribed more civilian deaths in value more than hundreds in two months of Russia’s bombings (and, of course, this “civilian” death tall comes from jihadist Twitter claims where they present all-male bodies in gear as “civilians”, so it is not quite reliable). Compare that to 2 million civilian deaths from USA’s carpet bombing with millions of tons of bombs in Vietnam.
So from whatever angle you might want to look at it, there is no carpet bombing by Russian air space. This is why even the most insane anti-Russian neocons from The Daily Beasts do not make such claim.
Does Wesley care to know any of that? No, not at all, as it has turned out. And even if he knows some of that, he does not care to adjust his stance, and be corrected.
I think maybe you should realize that Wesley was getting at the fact that you repeat Russian propaganda verbatim, which makes you seem trolly.
I’m sure you think Russian media is making great points about how the US media is lying about them and I’m sure to some degree the US media lies about Russia and the Russian media lies about the US.
However, what I am absolutely positive of is that there is a shit load of Pro-Putin propagandist PR in Russia. Journalistic ethics is not what the region is known for. It’s known for ‘strong’ men controlling the media, using it for national pep rallies and glamour pieces.
So even if it sounds reasonably to you, (and ultimately that’s the point of propaganda, to convince people with reasonable lies) there’s still ultimately an agenda in pro-Putin stories (and way more so than independent media)
Which is not to say we as americans don’t ever buy into state department propaganda but seeing as how most americans tend to already think everything is a conspiracy there’s a lot more skepticism about political leaders than Russia it seems. In russia it seems like most the stories are about how Putin is doing the right thing rather than asking the question “What ultimately is the right thing?” instead the answer is given be the question, the answer is “follow putin”
1) Where is “Russian propaganda” in the position that Russia does not do carpet bombings in Syria, for example, if even the most insane anti-Russian publication Daily Beast does not make such claim, only Wesley does?
2) Or course, there is pro-government coverage in most of Russia’s main media, just like in USA. However, this has nothing to do with me since I always (many times, for a long time) called Putin’s regime corrupt oligarchy, and his policies cynical pandering to mainstream religions that e.g. hate LGBTs. So there is no ground to call me “Russian troll” from this angle, too. I have no mercy on Putin where actual evidence points to things that are negative;
3) Most of my critiques of what Wesley has said in the last few weeks are not really about Putin though. They are about such things like the weird carpet bombing claim, or that Assad was gasing/killing his people (both are highly dubious considering Turkey’s whistle-blower’s information from this year, and many other factors that I laid out in the comments to few previous Old School episodes).
Not sure if you will be able to get a notification on this reply since this comment section’s nested “replies” tree has reached its limit, but I will try to post it anyway.
Yes, I am aware of this report you linked. The Caesar guy got a photo archive of morgue, to which bodies from all over the place were gathered — as supposed for a morgue, this is what they do. 27 of thousands of bodies are detainees, half are soldiers, killed in the war, and others died from various reasons in unknown circumstances. This is how a morgue during civil war would look like. Here is analysis of HRW statement:
The fact that initial report and its new edition had drastic differences, and that whole theme is spread via Qatari-funded UK PR firm was advertised it as “proof”, also does not help. Qatar is Wahhabi/Salafist regime, one of major sponsors of “regime change” in Syria and “moderate rebel” jihadist groups. The Caesar defected from Syria to Qatar and lives there since.
The stories of 27 concrete identified detainees — though HRW is silent on what types of “activists” there were (including being in Al-Qaeda or completely innocent) — are tragic. But nothing indicates that those cases were pushed/instigated/ordered by Assad, and nothing yet indicates it was wide scale effort in terms of real evidence.
If further investigations will show more, then the situation could be reassessed and “Assad must go” demand would look valid, but it not so yet. What we have now looks like new version of Saddam’s “ties to 9/11” or “Saddam’s WMDs”.
By the way, I respect that you care to find truth enough to posted a reply that has actual argument in it. I try myself to keep open minded about everyone and everything, so if I am wrong about you not being interested in pursuing something as close as possible to objective reality, then I am glad I am.
He wants to segregate people for thought crimes & ideology. So, if someone kills my kids & family and I end up hating the USA, pity, because I go to prison for daring to hate the people who’ve killed my family & friends.
It’s amazing how little you take radicalism seriously (like it’s not a perpetual national security nightmare.) and yet at the same time you label radical onto those who you think need to be taken down to your level.
You are one of those people that thinks every single terrorist out there has. a family member killed by US imperialism and is on a just mission for revenge. Too bad this theory doesn’t hold any water. Look at vietnam, killed millions of em, where are the vietnamese terrorists? What about all those US backed coups in latin america that killed peoples latin families, where are the Latin American revenge terrorists?
Idk why you pussyfoot around this, even if that’s true in some cases that wouldn’t mean all terrorists are somehow good guys. If they think murdering innocent people who disagree with their religion is some way to combat US imperialism well then they are bad guys, they are terrorists and should be brought to justice. It does nothing but obscure the issue to pretend every single terrorist has lost someone and is just emotionally overreacting.
Liberals in the West love to treat brown minorities as children who have to be coddled. They are quite capable of making their own decisions in life and if they decide to engage in barbarity and use US foreign policy as an excuse, they are still terrorists whether you believe their excuses or not.
Now your claim that they are all outraged and hitting back because of our imperialism is wrong since we haven’t quite bombed even .001% of the 1.7 billion muslims yet, (the 100,000 iraqi’s civilians being the most fresh in the head) and as we have established 1% of 1.7 billion muslims would be 17 million people. So there are way too many people out there with radical beliefs for the US to even have had the time and bombs to bomb the families. So it’s a lie. A false claim. Untrue if you will.
As for the General Wesley Clark comment, that was passed around on stupid liberal viral news pages taking his words out of context saying he wants to do another internment. Which is obviously not what he intended. Reading his comments in full should enlighten you.
“We have got to identify the people who are most likely to be radicalized. We’ve got to cut this off at the beginning,” Clark said.
“On a national policy level, we need to look at what self-radicalization means, because we are at war with this group of terrorists,” the former top military commander added. “They do have an ideology. In World War II, if someone supported Nazi Germany at the expense of the United States, we didn’t say that was freedom of speech, we put him in a camp, they were prisoners of war.”
He continued: “If these people are radicalized and they don’t support the United States and they are disloyal to the United States, as a matter of principle, fine. It’s their right, and it’s our right and obligation to segregate them from the normal community for the duration of the conflict.”
First paragraph – if you don’t think trump is a radical, then we have nothing to discuss. Anyone entertaining the idea of internment camps is a radical and is not an American – I concur that you’re in the same category.
Second paragraph – you really think that evidence? If you think Vietnam not doing terrorism is evidence that muslims just must be a special kind of terrible breed of people, then that’s laughable. First off, Vietnam was fighting against the USA, it already got to seek revenge, torturing many Americans. Second, there are no where near 1.7 billion Vietnamese, that makes a big difference. But more importantly, in the ME you have toppled governments which is a breeding ground for terrorism. Al Quida was already formed thank to US support, and it eventually lead to them fighting for the freedom of Palestinians. These were already established thanks to USA, making it easier to expand and grow & to have offshoots etc, especially when you’ve obliterated the tyrants (as terrible as they were) and created the instability.
Paragraph three, not every terrorist lost someone – stop making convenient assumptions based on my shortcuts in speech. They see people they relate to die and some of them are radicalized this way, without experiencing a death in their family. Just like how seal team six fights to get revenge on bin laden.
Forth, yes, they are terrorists, and so is the US government, the biggest terrorist group in the world, actually. Because there is nothing accidental about killing 10 innocents in order to kill one terrorist – that is just blatant disregard for life. Terrorists would prefer to fight other soldiers and policy makers, but they don’t have the funds & technology & resources to chase them down, hence why they end up killing civilians (it ain’t an excuse, but you need to understand the dynamics involved). It’s because they don’t have any other option outside of doing nothing.
Five, LOL, of course if you look at it as a percentage it will look little, but in iraq we directly killed 220,000 people, mostly these deaths are shown on TV in the ME, you think it’s irrelevant? Then there is the 2m figure, most of which we didn’t do directly but our actions of toppling IRAQ lead to the deaths of these people, so we share some of the responsibility for this, about half. So half of 1.8m equals 900,000. Don’t like half? Try a third, it’s 600,000. + the 220k in IRAQ, plus Afghanistan, plus the drone bombings all around the ME, plus the deaths we created in ISIS territory and Syria.
Six & remainder, yeah, he didn’t say all I already know that, but he is still going to put people in an open air prison for thought crimes, for committing no crime. This is radical. And I noticed how he tried to change it later, but that was baseless.
Also, I remember you tried to argue that the muslims population in USA was 0.04% in order to show they commit more terror per capita. The Muslim population is USA is actually above 1% – yes, I’m sure it’s still higher per capita, but the % is much higher than you suggested, which is why I suggest you stop following that Dear Leader of yours and look at things in a more balanced way.
Also, if Vietnam not doing terrorist is somehow a liability against Muslims, what kinda of a liability does that represent against white christian males who not only kill others, but kill their own people here in the USA in mass shootings? lol
I don’t think you are using the word liability correctly.
Your claim: Muslims terrorists are just attacking back at the US empire because thats what happens when you bomb them.
My claim: The US bombed Vietnam and kills more people than nearly any other conflict. No widespread vietnamese terrorism. Your point is moot.
Your claim: White christians kill others and their own people in US Mass shootings.
My counter claim: Brown muslims kill others and their own people in terror attacks, suicide bombings, normal bombings, mass shootings, beheadings and stonings,
So next time you think you’re brain is on to something eaxx, calm down, reread what you said, use proper english, and then make a claim that contributes something to the conversation.
Of course there is no terrorism from Vietnam, the conflict was OVER – get me? The conflict between al quida vs US (re getting troops off their holy land & stopping support for Israels war crimes against Palestinians) IS STILL ONGOING – THE CONFLICT IS NOT OVER, IT’S UNRESOLVED.
Your example would work if USA was still in Vietnam and the Vietnamese didn’t fight back & just sat there and took it. But no, they didn’t do that. If there were innocent civilian Americans in Vietnam, you think they wouldn’t have attacked them? Of course they would have, but they didn’t need to, because they were able to attack the soldiers there, which are more valuable! ME terrorists don’t attack civilians out of first preference, they’d much rather attack the people perpetrating the wars, like policy makers, congressmen, white house officials, troops etc… but because they do not have the resources to do that, they go for civilians to harm those officials inadvertently. Cool?
Also, I’m using the word liability correctly, the reason you think it’s incorrect is because you haven’t heard many people use it like that.
Liability as in it’s a liability against the character of a muslim etc.
Well this just shows you haven’t been reading me and that you have terrible comprehension on top of that. I have said many times now that the Muslim population in the US is at most (according to concrete recorded stats) 7 million muslims (I’ve seen it could be as high as 12 million but the numbers have only been counted to 7 million).
7 million/300million= 2.3%
7 million/1.7 billion= .004%.
Meaning the US Muslim population represents .004% of the entire muslim world and yet you would think they were the only muslims that mattered the way you and others myopically speak of them.
(even 12million/1.7 billion= .007%)
This is why it’s absolutely pointless talking to you anymore. Another bites the dust.
Oh and also, three quarters of US muslims are Afircan American and not immigrants so in reality there are about 1.75 million muslims from the rest of the muslim lands that preside in the US.
I remembered incorrectly, because I thought you were trying to make the point about muslims in USA vs. white men in USA, in fact, I still remember it that way but if I am mistaken, that’s ok I accept my mistake. My interpretation of muslims in US vs white men in US would be a fairer example than comparing all muslims vs. christian’s since we were talking about terrorism in US.
Comments
Even back in 2015 the Dalai Lama would have beaten Bill Clinton.
TYT Old school is one of the greatest shows I have ever seen. I am a bloody millennial and I find these stuff hysterical.
West Clark, Cenk Uygur, Ben Mankiewicz, and Jimmy Dore are the \Renaissance a\Artists of Independent Media.
Kevin Smith!!! Dah!
If anyone wants to look it up its written Smažený sýr se šunkou
Wes Clark jr. Is fucking killing it on old school. And I saw he was in the Nevada and south Carolina caucus. ? good choice
I really want to like Wess, he’s awesome and fascinating in every way. But when he starts talking about Arabs He shits the bed. Would love to have misinterpreted him.
Ben you know better, Homeland might be a great show entertainment wise, but it is not fair and it is discriminatory.
Homeland is nuanced? Seriously? Cenk… I think the Palestinians should be thankful not only for the “separation” wall but also for the occupation huh?… Dude this was a downer. At least Dave Rubin is honest. This is pathetic. Even on the Israeli spectrum your remarks would be considered pretty right wing. Does that make you feel good Cenk? I bet it does…
Some of you guys are insane lol.
Firstly I think Wes raises a lot of good to excellent points and questions and theories, he adds greatly to Old School. Secondly, I have not seen or heard (on Old School) Wes saying any type of blanket statement re: I hate Muslims and kill Muslims etc, perhaps it fits a pre-conceived opinion of Wes or his father, or fits a narrative, you misheard/misunderstood or your reality is interpreting what he said in an incorrect manner. I find Wes’s contributions to be well informed, nuanced and different from my own which I love to learn from.
wes is annoying as fuck
he doesn’t contribute many quality points
nah the show was good before. wes makes it great.
Where is the discussion about the Uygur Prima Notte? Was it cut out of this episode? Cenk referenced it in Thursday’s post game, and there was a brief mention of it at 48:20. I wonder if there was some self-censorship going on.
noticed the exact same thing. in the thursday post game cenk mentioned that ben wanted no parts of the discussion that spawned the “Uygur prima notis.” I’m thinking ben had it cut out.
Old School is even better with Wes. The last four episodes included personal stories from another continent. That adds more value to the show. His stories from within the US are entertaining as well.
Also, they don’t seem to add too many started stories on top of the stack before they unwind the stack.They have been managing that well lately.
This is the A-team.
The A team, indeed.
That’s funny about Sandra Bullock because I had an ex-boyfriend who thought she was totally hot!
WES CLARK’S JR’S DAD, GENERAL WESLEY CLARK:
Retired US Army General Wesley Clark called for the internment of persons deemed “disloyal” to the United States government in an interview with MSNBC last Friday.
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/07/21/clar-j21.html
He want’s to put muslims in camps fo rthought crimes and political beliefs, remember, these are people who have committed no crime – but to him it doesn’t matter. Now I see where Wes gets his islamaphobia from. I really thought him & his dad were two of the good guys, what a damn disappointment.
Later the General tried to claim he wasn’t referring to only Muslims, but to all forms of radicals – however, in the article it is clear he was referring to Muslims since he said that we were at “war” with these people & other references that suggest he was talking about Muslims.
Could be you just have a hell of a time understanding people who don’t make the parrot noises you’re use to.
That was five months ago.
I’ll let someone else respond to you but they should first read Wesley’s own words before taking your radicalized version of it.
“We have got to identify the people who are most likely to be radicalized. We’ve got to cut this off at the beginning,” Clark said.
“On a national policy level, we need to look at what self-radicalization means, because we are at war with this group of terrorists,” the former top military commander added. “They do have an ideology. In World War II, if someone supported Nazi Germany at the expense of the United States, we didn’t say that was freedom of speech, we put him in a camp, they were prisoners of war.”
He continued: “If these people are radicalized and they don’t support the United States and they are disloyal to the United States, as a matter of principle, fine. It’s their right, and it’s our right and obligation to segregate them from the normal community for the duration of the conflict.”
That’s right, you’re locking people up for their beliefs, even when they have no intention of acting on those beliefs – why don’t they just track those people and follow them? Put them under surveillance, I would be for that just to make sure nothing happens, but this guy wants to lock them up for political beliefs, that isn’t American.
Remember, he made specific references to terrorism by islam/muslim by using words like “we are at war with them” and that “Germany, britian, paris” needs to adopt techniques etc, then he tried to argue on a later day that he was referring to all forms of terrorism, not just muslims. lol
It’s really a shame because i used to really like Gen Wesley Clark, and his son Wes. The General also looked EXACTLY like my grandfather who had a high ranking military career similar to Gen Clark, similar mannerisms & political beliefs etc… it was uncanny the similarities, maybe that’s why I was devastated when I heard these statements.
the germany, britian, paris is of course a reference to other places where there are high muslim populations etc.
I’ll let Wes or someone else respond to your slurs and slander.
You’re digging up a 5month old article to do character assassination of Wesley Clark’s son for what purpose?
Because I liked some of the points he made so now you have to do the Uygur maneuver and try to destroy someones rep with libel thinking that will help you win the upper ground?
I ain’t trying to win anything man, trust me, I was more disappointed than you were happy, and yes, I just saw this post since someone linked to it on my twitter feed a few days ago.
The reason I put this here is to suggest that maybe Wes’ disdain for muslims might have come from his dad, that is all – having said that, I don’t think it’s 100% that his dad has disdain for muslims, but I’m just presenting the connection.
Just looks like you’re being petty
I’m 36, it’s not about ‘winning’ anymore – maybe when i was 10-15 years younger it was, not anymore. I genuinely debate in the hope that I will learn something that I haven’t learnt or teach something to someone. Also, when I see characterizations that are unfair, I just can’t help myself – similar to you in this way.
I’ve learnt a few things from you and maybe you’ve picked up a few things from me. I was attracted to sam harris when I heard him say that he was open to learning & to some extent he is, but when he does the bias and cherry picking of stats (never talking about gallup poll on muslims and always talking about the flawed pew polls, and other things like this) that’s when I realized that it’s not entirely about an exchange of ideas for him, the selling of an agenda ranks highly for him unfortunately.
Let’s not forget you kept talking about civil dialog without insults & you kept going off at people before & after and when I asked you about the contradiction, your response was something to the effect of “i ain’t your friend” and “I’ll say what i like” and “if anyone takes offence at my insults then it’s their problem not mine” etc etc….
Maybe you were drunk that night, so I don’t want to be too quick to judge, but you had done this before several times while arguing against it… which is why I’d say it might not be too wise to say me or anyone else might be petty when that was your signature strike until recently. Again, the word “projection” comes to mind.
Having said that I know it can be hard to control emotions especially when there is disagreement, so maybe you just try your best and sometimes it doesn’t work out, or maybe you were drunk lol.
Tom Petty
Who said Wes has a disdain for Muslims???
me and irc did
I don’t think you should judge Wes on the opinions of his 70-year old military father.
if you go back a few episodes, he said some disparaging things about muslims – including being ok with and wanting to kill them em mass or other, if you read the comments you’ll see (from previous episode i think it was or the one before).
I’ve heard of no such thing! If you’re going to accuse someone of wanting to ‘kill them em mass or other’ you must come with stronger evidence. If you’re referring to the December 2 episode of Old School, Wes said ‘fuck those guys’ in reference to the Baathists, who were members of Saddam’s party. If calling out tyrants is now seen as disparaging Muslims then yes, Wes has a ‘disdain’ for Muslims. I suppose next time me or someone else is critical of the Nazi Party you’ll accuse us of engaging in anti-Christian bigotry.
Feel free to the comments I wrote in relation to that, me and IRC447 spoke about that. These people are living under a tyranny, they don’t have the option to “choose” and they need to do whatever is necessary to get by, the correlation between what they do and what they’d rather do does not exist, since they don’t have the options to carve out their own lives.
I think saying “fuck them” and hoping for their murder is going way overboard, it’s typical of wes’ disregard for life especially if they are muslims lives.
On top of this he made a similar remark about killing germans where cenk said he doesn’t agree with that. Typical militarist’s disregard for life, I think it’s really unfortunate. Combined with his dads radical views, and wes considering voting for a military hawk Hillary over sanders… it all comes together to draw a compelling picture.
Sure I’m calling him out if he says things I feel are unreasonable, but I can’t entirely blame the guy, who knows what his upbringing was like, how much brainwashing he endured (if any) or what the circumstances outside of his control where that has lead to these opinions. It’s rather not be too judgmental, but I’m pointing out troubling things and criticizing them. I am not saying he is a bad or terrible irredeemable human being or anything like that. That is the sort of thing sam harris followers say about others.
Also, I’m not saying bathist party members should be free of criticism or justice, all I’m saying is calling for their murder is not ok. I thought you cared about muslims, I thought that’s why you were calling for reforms in their religion, to help them, no?
Oh wait, I forget sometimes, that’s just a cover you guys use to disguise others from the hate you guys spew.
How do you feel now that hate crimes against muslims around the world has risen sharply? Especially hate crimes by western white men against muslim women who wear hijabs? Beating them up, kickign them, tearing off their hijabs and humiliating them in public…?
You should be proud of your work, since you’ve all done a good job inciting those people and giving them the feeble minded arguments to justify their actions.
Be proud of your work, harris, maher, rubin & all their supporters.
Remember that saying Cenk sometimes quotes…?
“Lets avoid these beginning so that we may avoid those ends”.
Wes that sounds a lot like a cheese and ham coquette
On post game, Cenk was talking bout his doc visit and that he thought he had Crohn’s. Now it’s Celiac.
Ben mentions that the mozz sticks are from 7-11 like four times, and a min later Cenk is asking if they’re from the restaurant mentioned afterward. Cenk, next time you see your doc for a follow up, ask him to check you for Alzheimer’s, buddy. :)
or hypacondria lol
I guess they cut off the section of the show that was “too Old school”. Maybe someone got into trouble. :)
It’s funny, with the new “A” team working Old School, I’m almost jonesing for a new Old School podcast more then a new TYT podcast. Probably due to the fact I tend to laugh my ass off during Old School and The Young Turks is sadly filled with stories of human depravity of one form or another. My new favorite day of the week is Thurs, Fri or Sat depending on when the new Old School podcast goes up, LMFAO.
I’m right there with you. Can’t wait each week. Definite let down when someone’s on vacation and they skip a week.
100% Agree. Old School is on another level and I’m disappointed when it’s not on. Like you, I love TYT and I watch the show religiously but Old School has really fun stories and I usually have abdominal pain from laughing so hard! The regular show is incredibly important and It highlights stories that aren’t always mentioned on MSM but it can get a little dark sometimes. Old School touches on important subjects but It’s mostly about everyday things like food, weather and really anything they want to talk about. It’s basically the podcast version of Seinfeld!
It turns out that Wesley is silent lurker here as he said that I am “Russian troll”, and, apparently, a KGB spy or something. I am surprised that Wesley visits this comment section at all, but not surprised at his guessing about my supposed role here and elsewhere, considering his peculiar beliefs about other subjects, like, for example, Edward Snowden being Russian spy and other theories that born from paranoid conscience he inherited from his father, a Cold-War era general.
It is especially interesting since just recently there was a leak of some Russian internal analytic report where Snowden is called active CIA agent that only pretends to be NSA defector, and he is in Russia to undermine country’s security. Cold-War era hawks are still alive, and they are paranoid in both camps — they need no evidence for their claims.
Also, I just re-read my comments on Old School from the last few weeks to see if they can be seen as “trolling” by a neutral observer. Definitive behaviour of internet troll is provocative substance-less one-liners that instigate outrage and endless pointless bickering. There is no way to categorize my writing here as “trolling” since I always come to detailed concrete arguments (verifiable with Google search). Every reader can in just few clicks check those older comments and see if I am correct. I assert I have never made a “trolling” comment on TYT or elsewhere, ever; simply not my thing.
One way to assess a person’s character is to see if he/she is able to raise above his/her prejudices and biases and try to look at things objectively. Cenk tries to do that and he overcame himself on many fields (thanks to him and Ana, I corrected myself on important things, too), though not on Russia-related matters — and this is understandable, because just as Wesley, he is child of Cold War.
Since it was established that Wesley does read comments, and yet he was not able to acknowledge even a single thing that was corrected in comments to Old School in the last weeks (and not only by me, so, by Wesley’s standard, we have whole “troll KGB army” here, including Americans in it), it means that he can not overcome himself. Here were have found exact limit of Wesley’s open mindedness. After that limit, we deal with religious type of thought process, where arguments and reality do not exist any more. Paranoia is fundamental, low level emotion that in cases overcomes reason and blinds them from seeing anything rational.
It is similar how you can almost befriend someone and think that person is all around reasonable and rational, until you suddenly learn that he/she is e.g. anti-Semite. Some people have certain points where they loose attachment to reality. For Wesley, anti-Russian paranoia is such thing. As I mentioned before, not even insane neocon publications such as Daily Beast “report” things that Wesley believes in (for instance, like Russia carpet-bombing or Syria, which is ignorant nonsense — as it was explained in detail in comments to an earlier Old School show).
why you running your mouth so fast troll, you russian?
Very intelligent, argumentative answer. This is how you show some class.
awe thanks c:
I bailed as soon as I saw the length of your comment, but Wes is not a silent lurker. He was commenting here a week or two ago.
All rights, thank for correction. I did not see his comments, apparently. This adds to my point, though. Wesley was unable to neither admit nor contest even single critique point that I and others were making about his stances. He has shown that on some subjects he is not interested in reality, but only interested in his paranoid beliefs that are not attached to reality.
Maybe not everybody cares about getting into a debate with every single person online who disagrees with them.
That is true, but we had Wesley’s response to the critiques in this video. It was complete denial of all critiques, hiding behind “Russian troll” claim. So it is not about him not replying to comments of mine or to some one else who was critical. It is just Wesley’s stance. “F**k the reality”, if to summarize in the style he talks in.
E.g. the “Russia carpet-bombing Syria” claim I mentioned above. Does Wesley care that carpet bombing is massive operation such as USA stopping 7 million tons of bombs in Asia in period of time from late 1950s to 1970s?
Russia bombs jihadists way more intensively that USA-led coalition, but in 2.5 months still only about 6 000 tons of bombs used. You can not carpet bomb with that amount because you will have nothing left for actual targets. So even if Russia would want to carpet bomb Syria, they physically could not with such relatively small effort. Russia only uses something like 1.5% of its air forces. If Russia wanted to carpet bomb, they certain could. And it would look totally different.
Also, the way how Russian air forces operate in Syria is known: some sorties are done when targets are determined beforehand, and others is when target date only comes to pilots when they are patrolling the sky. This is when the bomber just “making circles” in the air for some prolonged time and waiting if it will receive command to bomb target on specific coordinates. The Su-24 plane that was shot down by Turkey was working in this mode, as explained as Ministry of Defence and seen on path maps/timestamps. There is no room for carpet bombing in either of those two variants.
Also, along the line of usual bombs, Russia uses nearly half a dozen of guided bombs and missiles to destroy targets. But even unguided bombs are not dropped manually by pilots, automatic computer system that uses satellite data, speed, altitude of the bomber and even weather conditions decides at what point of time exactly a bomb should be released. This is Russian air forces are way more accurate (and it is seen on videos of unguided bombs use that MoD publishes) than Syrian air forces, that use older, not upgraded planes.
Finally, you have to count the length of the front line in Syria — it is colossal Only small portion of Russian bombings go to deep in jihadists territory areas. Most of them are dropped on them right on the front line. There is no point in carpet bombing there, you have to actually destroy concrete targets, or otherwise it would be pointless as the enemy would not be hit by bombs that are dropped just at random. Even more: carpet bombing in front line areas would after result in friendly fire situations.
Another aspect is that front line areas are almost deserted, so you can not kill lots civilians there even if you would do carpet bombing anyway. Even anti-Syrian humanitarian groups that are funded by StateDep grants were not able to ascribed more civilian deaths in value more than hundreds in two months of Russia’s bombings (and, of course, this “civilian” death tall comes from jihadist Twitter claims where they present all-male bodies in gear as “civilians”, so it is not quite reliable). Compare that to 2 million civilian deaths from USA’s carpet bombing with millions of tons of bombs in Vietnam.
So from whatever angle you might want to look at it, there is no carpet bombing by Russian air space. This is why even the most insane anti-Russian neocons from The Daily Beasts do not make such claim.
Does Wesley care to know any of that? No, not at all, as it has turned out. And even if he knows some of that, he does not care to adjust his stance, and be corrected.
Look man, I don’t know about your grievances, but there’s just no way I’m going to read all of that. Sorry.
Do not be sorry, no one forces anyone to read anything. It just is for those who have a bit more time to read and no attention span issues.
I think maybe you should realize that Wesley was getting at the fact that you repeat Russian propaganda verbatim, which makes you seem trolly.
I’m sure you think Russian media is making great points about how the US media is lying about them and I’m sure to some degree the US media lies about Russia and the Russian media lies about the US.
However, what I am absolutely positive of is that there is a shit load of Pro-Putin propagandist PR in Russia. Journalistic ethics is not what the region is known for. It’s known for ‘strong’ men controlling the media, using it for national pep rallies and glamour pieces.
So even if it sounds reasonably to you, (and ultimately that’s the point of propaganda, to convince people with reasonable lies) there’s still ultimately an agenda in pro-Putin stories (and way more so than independent media)
Which is not to say we as americans don’t ever buy into state department propaganda but seeing as how most americans tend to already think everything is a conspiracy there’s a lot more skepticism about political leaders than Russia it seems. In russia it seems like most the stories are about how Putin is doing the right thing rather than asking the question “What ultimately is the right thing?” instead the answer is given be the question, the answer is “follow putin”
the answer is given before the question*
1) Where is “Russian propaganda” in the position that Russia does not do carpet bombings in Syria, for example, if even the most insane anti-Russian publication Daily Beast does not make such claim, only Wesley does?
2) Or course, there is pro-government coverage in most of Russia’s main media, just like in USA. However, this has nothing to do with me since I always (many times, for a long time) called Putin’s regime corrupt oligarchy, and his policies cynical pandering to mainstream religions that e.g. hate LGBTs. So there is no ground to call me “Russian troll” from this angle, too. I have no mercy on Putin where actual evidence points to things that are negative;
3) Most of my critiques of what Wesley has said in the last few weeks are not really about Putin though. They are about such things like the weird carpet bombing claim, or that Assad was gasing/killing his people (both are highly dubious considering Turkey’s whistle-blower’s information from this year, and many other factors that I laid out in the comments to few previous Old School episodes).
https://www.hrw.org/news/2015/12/16/syria-stories-behind-photos-killed-detainees
Not sure if you will be able to get a notification on this reply since this comment section’s nested “replies” tree has reached its limit, but I will try to post it anyway.
Yes, I am aware of this report you linked. The Caesar guy got a photo archive of morgue, to which bodies from all over the place were gathered — as supposed for a morgue, this is what they do. 27 of thousands of bodies are detainees, half are soldiers, killed in the war, and others died from various reasons in unknown circumstances. This is how a morgue during civil war would look like. Here is analysis of HRW statement:
http://humanrightsinvestigations.org/2015/12/17/new-human-rights-watch-report-and-the-caesar-photos/
The fact that initial report and its new edition had drastic differences, and that whole theme is spread via Qatari-funded UK PR firm was advertised it as “proof”, also does not help. Qatar is Wahhabi/Salafist regime, one of major sponsors of “regime change” in Syria and “moderate rebel” jihadist groups. The Caesar defected from Syria to Qatar and lives there since.
The stories of 27 concrete identified detainees — though HRW is silent on what types of “activists” there were (including being in Al-Qaeda or completely innocent) — are tragic. But nothing indicates that those cases were pushed/instigated/ordered by Assad, and nothing yet indicates it was wide scale effort in terms of real evidence.
If further investigations will show more, then the situation could be reassessed and “Assad must go” demand would look valid, but it not so yet. What we have now looks like new version of Saddam’s “ties to 9/11” or “Saddam’s WMDs”.
By the way, I respect that you care to find truth enough to posted a reply that has actual argument in it. I try myself to keep open minded about everyone and everything, so if I am wrong about you not being interested in pursuing something as close as possible to objective reality, then I am glad I am.
These guys (Wes & his Dad) are radicals, unfortunately:
Retired US Army General Wesley Clark called for the internment of persons deemed “disloyal” to the United States government in an interview with MSNBC last Friday.
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/07/21/clar-j21.html
He wants to segregate people for thought crimes & ideology. So, if someone kills my kids & family and I end up hating the USA, pity, because I go to prison for daring to hate the people who’ve killed my family & friends.
It’s amazing how little you take radicalism seriously (like it’s not a perpetual national security nightmare.) and yet at the same time you label radical onto those who you think need to be taken down to your level.
You are one of those people that thinks every single terrorist out there has. a family member killed by US imperialism and is on a just mission for revenge. Too bad this theory doesn’t hold any water. Look at vietnam, killed millions of em, where are the vietnamese terrorists? What about all those US backed coups in latin america that killed peoples latin families, where are the Latin American revenge terrorists?
Idk why you pussyfoot around this, even if that’s true in some cases that wouldn’t mean all terrorists are somehow good guys. If they think murdering innocent people who disagree with their religion is some way to combat US imperialism well then they are bad guys, they are terrorists and should be brought to justice. It does nothing but obscure the issue to pretend every single terrorist has lost someone and is just emotionally overreacting.
Liberals in the West love to treat brown minorities as children who have to be coddled. They are quite capable of making their own decisions in life and if they decide to engage in barbarity and use US foreign policy as an excuse, they are still terrorists whether you believe their excuses or not.
Now your claim that they are all outraged and hitting back because of our imperialism is wrong since we haven’t quite bombed even .001% of the 1.7 billion muslims yet, (the 100,000 iraqi’s civilians being the most fresh in the head) and as we have established 1% of 1.7 billion muslims would be 17 million people. So there are way too many people out there with radical beliefs for the US to even have had the time and bombs to bomb the families. So it’s a lie. A false claim. Untrue if you will.
As for the General Wesley Clark comment, that was passed around on stupid liberal viral news pages taking his words out of context saying he wants to do another internment. Which is obviously not what he intended. Reading his comments in full should enlighten you.
“We have got to identify the people who are most likely to be radicalized. We’ve got to cut this off at the beginning,” Clark said.
“On a national policy level, we need to look at what self-radicalization means, because we are at war with this group of terrorists,” the former top military commander added. “They do have an ideology. In World War II, if someone supported Nazi Germany at the expense of the United States, we didn’t say that was freedom of speech, we put him in a camp, they were prisoners of war.”
He continued: “If these people are radicalized and they don’t support the United States and they are disloyal to the United States, as a matter of principle, fine. It’s their right, and it’s our right and obligation to segregate them from the normal community for the duration of the conflict.”
First paragraph – if you don’t think trump is a radical, then we have nothing to discuss. Anyone entertaining the idea of internment camps is a radical and is not an American – I concur that you’re in the same category.
Second paragraph – you really think that evidence? If you think Vietnam not doing terrorism is evidence that muslims just must be a special kind of terrible breed of people, then that’s laughable. First off, Vietnam was fighting against the USA, it already got to seek revenge, torturing many Americans. Second, there are no where near 1.7 billion Vietnamese, that makes a big difference. But more importantly, in the ME you have toppled governments which is a breeding ground for terrorism. Al Quida was already formed thank to US support, and it eventually lead to them fighting for the freedom of Palestinians. These were already established thanks to USA, making it easier to expand and grow & to have offshoots etc, especially when you’ve obliterated the tyrants (as terrible as they were) and created the instability.
Paragraph three, not every terrorist lost someone – stop making convenient assumptions based on my shortcuts in speech. They see people they relate to die and some of them are radicalized this way, without experiencing a death in their family. Just like how seal team six fights to get revenge on bin laden.
Forth, yes, they are terrorists, and so is the US government, the biggest terrorist group in the world, actually. Because there is nothing accidental about killing 10 innocents in order to kill one terrorist – that is just blatant disregard for life. Terrorists would prefer to fight other soldiers and policy makers, but they don’t have the funds & technology & resources to chase them down, hence why they end up killing civilians (it ain’t an excuse, but you need to understand the dynamics involved). It’s because they don’t have any other option outside of doing nothing.
Five, LOL, of course if you look at it as a percentage it will look little, but in iraq we directly killed 220,000 people, mostly these deaths are shown on TV in the ME, you think it’s irrelevant? Then there is the 2m figure, most of which we didn’t do directly but our actions of toppling IRAQ lead to the deaths of these people, so we share some of the responsibility for this, about half. So half of 1.8m equals 900,000. Don’t like half? Try a third, it’s 600,000. + the 220k in IRAQ, plus Afghanistan, plus the drone bombings all around the ME, plus the deaths we created in ISIS territory and Syria.
Six & remainder, yeah, he didn’t say all I already know that, but he is still going to put people in an open air prison for thought crimes, for committing no crime. This is radical. And I noticed how he tried to change it later, but that was baseless.
Also, I remember you tried to argue that the muslims population in USA was 0.04% in order to show they commit more terror per capita. The Muslim population is USA is actually above 1% – yes, I’m sure it’s still higher per capita, but the % is much higher than you suggested, which is why I suggest you stop following that Dear Leader of yours and look at things in a more balanced way.
Also, if Vietnam not doing terrorist is somehow a liability against Muslims, what kinda of a liability does that represent against white christian males who not only kill others, but kill their own people here in the USA in mass shootings? lol
I don’t think you are using the word liability correctly.
Your claim: Muslims terrorists are just attacking back at the US empire because thats what happens when you bomb them.
My claim: The US bombed Vietnam and kills more people than nearly any other conflict. No widespread vietnamese terrorism. Your point is moot.
Your claim: White christians kill others and their own people in US Mass shootings.
My counter claim: Brown muslims kill others and their own people in terror attacks, suicide bombings, normal bombings, mass shootings, beheadings and stonings,
So next time you think you’re brain is on to something eaxx, calm down, reread what you said, use proper english, and then make a claim that contributes something to the conversation.
your’
Of course there is no terrorism from Vietnam, the conflict was OVER – get me? The conflict between al quida vs US (re getting troops off their holy land & stopping support for Israels war crimes against Palestinians) IS STILL ONGOING – THE CONFLICT IS NOT OVER, IT’S UNRESOLVED.
Your example would work if USA was still in Vietnam and the Vietnamese didn’t fight back & just sat there and took it. But no, they didn’t do that. If there were innocent civilian Americans in Vietnam, you think they wouldn’t have attacked them? Of course they would have, but they didn’t need to, because they were able to attack the soldiers there, which are more valuable! ME terrorists don’t attack civilians out of first preference, they’d much rather attack the people perpetrating the wars, like policy makers, congressmen, white house officials, troops etc… but because they do not have the resources to do that, they go for civilians to harm those officials inadvertently. Cool?
Also, I’m using the word liability correctly, the reason you think it’s incorrect is because you haven’t heard many people use it like that.
Liability as in it’s a liability against the character of a muslim etc.
Well this just shows you haven’t been reading me and that you have terrible comprehension on top of that. I have said many times now that the Muslim population in the US is at most (according to concrete recorded stats) 7 million muslims (I’ve seen it could be as high as 12 million but the numbers have only been counted to 7 million).
7 million/300million= 2.3%
7 million/1.7 billion= .004%.
Meaning the US Muslim population represents .004% of the entire muslim world and yet you would think they were the only muslims that mattered the way you and others myopically speak of them.
(even 12million/1.7 billion= .007%)
This is why it’s absolutely pointless talking to you anymore. Another bites the dust.
Oh and also, three quarters of US muslims are Afircan American and not immigrants so in reality there are about 1.75 million muslims from the rest of the muslim lands that preside in the US.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/muslims/portraits/us.html
I remembered incorrectly, because I thought you were trying to make the point about muslims in USA vs. white men in USA, in fact, I still remember it that way but if I am mistaken, that’s ok I accept my mistake. My interpretation of muslims in US vs white men in US would be a fairer example than comparing all muslims vs. christian’s since we were talking about terrorism in US.
Loved it. Back to the Old School long diatribes about food that made me so hungry even though you were referring to 7-11 and Target.
Always funny and glad there was one more episode before the year is out.
Brightens up any friday morning of housework.
I watch Tyrant too. Good show.