Ana, Michael Shure, and Jimmy Dore hosting. An Occupy protester has been convicted of assaulting a police officer after she elbowed him as the police beat her at the event. She alleged that the officer grabbed her breast, causing her to react by swinging her elbow. Jimmy and Michael disagree on the motivations behind people becoming cops. An oil company wants to get a pipeline in Canada approved, and in response to challenges to the constant oil spills, they claimed that the upside to oil spills is that cleanup crews are a job sources for citizens. Videos of Democratic Sen Mary Landrieu talking about how we need the Keystone Pipeline so that we can be energy independent. Video of Rick Santorum was talking about how important keeping a two parent household is for financial stability and economic opportunity. When Cavuto challenged him on whether or not a same sex 2 parent household is acceptable for financial stability, Santorum dodged the obvious answer. An abortion counselor created a video of how she went through an abortion to show a positive story of the process. A NH father was arrested for getting out of hand at a school board meeting regarding a very graphic book that was assigned to his 14 year old girl to read for AP English class. Excerpts from the controversial teenage sexual scenes of the book. Condi Rice pulled out of speaking at Rutgers Univ commencement ceremony after students protested her appearance due to her Bush Admin past in accommodating torture tactics. She didn’t want her presence to ruin the celebratory mood of such a good day. In response, college Republicans at the school are upset about her ousting.
Hour 1 Source Articles
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Woman Found Guilty of Assaulting Officer at an Occupy Wall Street Protest
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/06/nyregion/occupy-wall-street-protester-is-found-guilty-of-assaulting-officer.html?_r=0
Oil Company Argues Oil Spills Are Good for the Economy
http://www.thewire.com/business/2014/05/oil-company-argues-oil-spills-are-good-for-the-economy/361551/
Father Arrested For Protesting Racy Novel At NH High School
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/05/06/father-arrested-for-protesting-racy-novel-at-nh-high-school/
Fox News Host Challenges Santorum On Same-Sex Marriage Position
http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2014/05/05/3434406/fox-santorum-marriage/
Comments
I love Jimmy’s little laugh at the end there
When I was 13, I read John Irving’s The World According To Garp. It deals with many complex issues that are—one could say—too mature for a person that age, and contains much more sexually explicit content than the one discussed in this segment. Irving’s mother even said some parts of the book were too explicit for her.
I come from a family of avid readers and we always fought for every book that entered the house. This one was the first one that my mother forbid me to read. Of course I had to find it. At this age it was a revelation. It opened up a completely new world for me. Sex details were exciting and I used to describe them to others kids at summer camps (Sorry, parents. I was also the kid who used to tell your kids were they came from and how they got out when you didn’t. Seriously, at 9 they should know).
To this day I think The World According to Garp is one of the best books I’ve ever read. Do I think all 13-year olds should read it? No. I haven’t read the 19 Minutes, it might be a great book, but after the story about it I have two issues with it:
1. The excerpt does seem inappropriate for a school setting at 14. Are they going to discuss it? Would kids that age even want to discuss it with their teacher and their classmates? Not all kids mature at the same pace. 14 was about that age where the puberty hit guys at my school the most and they did stupid shit like grabbing each other by the crotch to compare new dick sizes. Discussing sex scenes with them would have been as beneficial as discussing not jumping and eating crap with young goats.
2. The sex scene alone suffers from the same problem the majority of porn does. Just when the woman gets into it, the man finishes and that’s the end of it. Somehow I doubt the lack of the woman’s sexual satisfaction is one of educational points of the book.
Michael Shure, I think you’re a smart and educated guy.
However, to say that OWS had won at anything is incredibly ridiculous. They changed the discourse of the country? What? The discourse was changed which MADE POSSIBLE the OWS protests. To say that OWS had ‘won’ anything is an insane denial of reality about this.
Also, I’m not going to say that ‘all’ police officers are complacent in this, but when Jimmy asked where the cops who were opposed to what was happening were, it’s far from a proper defense to claim that merely because they didn’t engage in the offenses is enough of a protest from the police? Seriously?
For evil to succeed it takes good men to do nothing, Michael…
I always figured it was done exactly the same way as a c section and those don’t take that long either. It is a c section but since it’s a zygote it just can’t survive it.
There are bad cops and good cops. It really depends on the state and I think the only person that can talk about that is Dennis Trainor JR. After all he was the only one that has been arrested and needed to use the cops for something. If it wasn’t for a cop he wouldn’t get something for a documentary. I would like it if either TYT has an interview with him about it and get this cop thing straightened out or Jimmy. Maybe have Cenk and Jimmy do the interview with Dennis so that way things can be known and Jimmy can see it from another point of view. I get that Jimmy hates the cops. I don’t like most cops but it depends on the state and town.
Definitely an interesting segment. In terms of Ana if you read this you did fine for the first hour and I enjoy the second hour as well. I don’t think Ana was so much eager to move on as much as she was uncomfortable with Jimmy’s anger. We can go on all day with that but it done now. I understand where Michael is coming from and I do not think he is being an apologist for the police, however generalizing people even in terms of a profession can be considered taboo if you will for a group that believes the opposite. What Jimmy said goes against some of the core principals of not just the show but of TYT community as a whole. What if you were a policeman who is a member of The Young Turks? What if you were a policeman who enjoyed TYT mainly for Jimmy? Those are just some of the questions you should ask yourself. That being said I really cannot blame Jimmy for his rant. And to Geoffrey I agree with you as well as you hit the nail on the head with your statement about them becoming assholes in particular with their work. Like you I know a couple of cops and I will not go further with that. I would say a Majority of cops eventually let the badge and gun affect who they are. Some were like that already so the job was right up their alley others turn into something else for a variety of reasons. You spend your day answering domestic violence calls, drug addicts, and various other losers and it might turn you into something of an asshole too. That being said they need to be able to know when to turn the fucking asshole button off. The majority don’t. I think we all can agree that they are not held accountable nearly to the level they should be. It’s a power trip pure and simple. “We can so we will” & “Shut the fuck up” can be used to describe the majority of these assholes, especially in a crowd control setting in my opinion. As per John and those who thinks he gets picked on who cares if he does. He is earning his stripes in my opinion. They do not teach experience and how to handle dealing with men 20 years your senior with tons of experience in any school. The fact that they challenge him and maybe even pick on him a little is the same thing they went through. Yes, it is an age thing, Yes, it happened to me. I used to work in the trading pit so yes I know about it. Yes, the same trading pit as that fucking idiot Eric Bowling before he was on TV. Imagine starting your career with a trading pit full of them. Granted my experience was harsher than what John deals with at times. I understand where it comes from. Trust me soon enough that will stop as he continues to grow on TYT and beyond. I think the fact that he cited his education came from a good place and I understood what he was trying to say as information gathering were part of his studies. However John could consider it training for when he is in a situation outside of TYT in terms of panel discussions or arguments with more experienced professionals. Someone with experience would not say hey I think I am right because I studied this in school, at least not with older more experienced colleagues.
I like Jimmy. He’s a bright guy who has the capacity to think for himself and I respect that. I think he has a solid point in regards to the type of person who chooses to become a police officer and remain a police officer. But once he was done making that point (which he did at length), it was time to let someone else speak rather than continue to say the same things over again (only more loudly to drown out his dissenters). If I wanted to watch that kind of disrespectful exchange, I would go to Fox news. Generalizations about a population will always be anecdotally proven wrong even if they are true for the majority.
Exactly! That is why I think Ana ended the discussion at the appropriate time. Both Michael and Jimmy were repeating the same points.
In all the years I’ve been watching, this was one of the most complex hours on TYT I’ve heard. I believe that Jimmy’s thought process is much deeper than either Michael’s or Ana’s. In his life, he’s probably always in the position of presenting views that are more aware on many more levels than people he’s debating. That’s what makes him angrier than the others — he sees more, he feels more deeply. It’s also what makes Jimmy a good comedian. I’m not saying that Michael and Ana aren’t intelligent, but compared to Jimmy, they missed the boat today.
In an earlier show this week, I agreed with Michael about the survey question that referred to black people being lazy. It may have been the first time I ever agreed with Michael. Also, about Michael, he’s better with Jimmy than with Cenk. He engages with Jimmy to see the comic angle and their interaction is fun. Also, when Michael said that police brutality is now calling it to our attention in a way that never happened “30 or 40 years ago” — wrong. Look it up.
Another comment for Jimmy — I think kids, especially teenagers, should be allowed to read whatever they need to read and I’m not so much in favor of parental censorship, but not all kids are reading about hot sex on the internet. There are so many teenage girls who have been or are currently being sexually molested that that passage would be frightening, and when they use the internet to find information, they’re looking up accounts of incest and abuse, and when they come upon a passage like that, they’re reading about something that already happened to them and it wasn’t fun, although she may have been aroused when it happened. I feel like we’re teaching these girls what we expect of them later. I remember a kid I worked with who told me she watched the movie SOMETHING ABOUT AMELIA with Ted Danson and Roxanna Zal and realized for the first time that it was called “incest” and that she had been going through it for 10 years (she was 11 at the time). Just as police brutality is part of that culture, physical and sexual abuse of our children is a much bigger part of our culture than we will acknowledge — I imagine it’s a part of our rape culture, except that it’s rape that we subject our children to.
I don’t get why Ana was so eager to move on, does anyone really prefer a fox news/santorum story over the police conversation and argument?
Anna needs to stop reading tweets if she can’t handle the criticism. News alert! The internet is filled with trolls, cats, haters, and the vocal minority. The majority of people love you, Ana, so stop being so insecure.
And I agree with Jimmy for the most part. I have friends who are cops, and I’ve seen the job change them. I’ve seen them turn from caring human beings into assholes when it comes to their work. Some of that change is out of genuine fear, some of it is because the power that comes from the badge and the gun, but the fact remains that the results are terrifying – and that’s to someone who’s friends with them.
make cops accountable for THEIR assaults and murders on innocent people and they will change.
I heard sirens in the background towards the end of the video. Run Jimmy, run!!!!
I HAVE TWO POINTS TO MAKE: (in addition to previous post):
I didn’t appreciate ana trying to stop Jimmy from making his legit rant. Then she tried to say they were going in on this topic overtime in order to prevent interesting heated conversation, i’ve seen stories go on for much longer, she was trying to defend her “crew” as opposed to being on the side of the audience and working for us. I was really disillusioned by ana being a typical cable anchor with the “shhhh…. it’s us against them” when she is supposed to be on the side of the audience 100%. Typical of ana, that and several other things that rub me the wrong way about her.
Also, let it be noted, and remember, Jimmy’s dad used to beat him pretty badly, and he was a cop… that is the main thesis of where all this is coming from, just to keep it real. After that rant I thought to myself, man, he must really hate his dad and that it must have been some really messed up growing up for him. So when he speaks about cops, it’s mainly his emotional bias talking from emotional and physical torture. It also reminded me of when he lashed out on how adults made that little girl pee in a cup in the front of the school bus because they didn’t want to pull over, again, torturing a 5 year old kid and abusing her practically.
I’m saying this just to keep it real, even though i agree with the sentiments expressed by Jimmy 100% and agree with and understand the points he was trying to make, ie: how it’s systemic, and if you’re not part of that messed up system you won’t be there for long for several reasons. So the system keeps the terrible and prevents and gets rid of the good by system design (consequence of things being the way they are).
First of all, to be fair to Ana, she’s always been the one most concerned with the schedule of the show.
Second of all, you don’t have to be abused yourself to be appalled about stories like these. So while Jimmy’s personal experiences might influence to the severity of his feelings towards these things, I doubt it would be much different if he never had them. I’ve never experienced things like that thankfully, but I’ve been cursing these events so much more than Jimmy up until now that I was finally relieved that he finally got to say these. He didn’t even go far enough.
Regarding the “the minority is bad” argument, I always hate that. They’re cops; there shouldn’t be a minority like that. It’s institutionalized brutality.
I wish they would remind the audience that the police departments always find no wrongdoing in these events, and they’re always “justified”. No one gets kicked from the police force for being a piece of shit asshole. That’s almost encouraged now.
People used to complain about use of tasers and pepper spray and now they’re rarely used. They immediately kill you now. When someone asks them about it they say it’s “protocol”. Well then you’re a violent, criminal organization.
Jimmy’s right, until they apologize and change, they’re all participating in this shit. And the longer people go “oh it’s just a minority”, the more the police will be encouraged to continue their violent ways.
And there’s no shittier excuse than “It’s a dangerous job”. Well part of your job is to act cool in danger, and if you can’t handle it, you’re in the wrong profession. These are people who claim they fear for their life against little girls, mentally challenged people, unarmed people, grandmas… If everything makes you fear for your life, just fucking quit.
Seriously? This is not “in addition” to your other post. It’s exactly the same. That’s called spamming.
I know you guys are half-joking- at least I hope you are, but I wanted someone to jump in and defend John during that. He didn’t sound egotistical or pretentious during yesterday’s polling segment, he said in passing, during school, what he was most interested in was gathering and studying information. I didn’t get ANY sense at all of “I think I’m WAY more educated and qualified to talk about it” like you guys insinuated.
Again, I know you’re joking, but it seemed to pass a little into mean-spirited to me.
Also Ana did great in the first hour, good job.
I didn’t appreciate ana trying to stop Jimmy from making his legit rant. Then she tried to say they were going in on this topic overtime in order to prevent interesting heated conversation, i’ve seen stories go on for much longer, she was trying to defend her “crew” as opposed to being on the side of the audience and working for us. I was really disillusioned by ana being a typical cable anchor with the “shhhh…. it’s us against them” when she is supposed to be on the side of the audience 100%. Typical of ana, that and several other things that rub me the wrong way about her.
Also, let it be noted, and remember, Jimmy’s dad used to beat him pretty badly, and he was a cop… that is the main thesis of where all this is coming from, just to keep it real. After that rant I thought to myself, man, he must really hate his dad and that it must have been some really messed up growing up for him. So when he speaks about cops, it’s mainly his emotional bias talking from emotional and physical torture. It also reminded me of when he lashed out on how adults made that little girl pee in a cup in the front of the school bus because they didn’t want to pull over, again, torturing a 5 year old kid and abusing her practically.
I’m saying this just to keep it real, even though i agree with the sentiments expressed by Jimmy 100% and agree with and understand the points he was trying to make, ie: how it’s systemic, and if you’re not part of that messed up system you won’t be there for long for several reasons. So the system keeps the terrible and prevents and gets rid of the good by system design (consequence of things being the way they are).
I disagree. The discussion was good – but at that point they were starting to repeat themselves and needed to move on. I think Ana ended it at the perfect time.
I’m with you, mirandam. It was just going on way too long with everyone saying the same thing over and over. It started out good, then it just got boring. I don’t blame Jimmy and Michael: you always think if you just say it a little differently and a little louder, a light bulb will go off in the other’s head and they’ll understand exactly what you mean… but they were both convinced of their own argument and not willing to budge. Ana had to end it and move on. Some really great stories came after that, so I’m glad we got to them.
I think John gets frustrated that he’s not taken more seriously. Everyone kind of brushes him off like he’s just a silly kid, which is what I saw happening with Michael yesterday. John got a little defensive, but I think he was entitled. I’m glad Cenk doesn’t do that and let’s him host. John’s got some great insights, and I love when he plays devil’s advocate.
Also, Beyond my giving you shit for fucking with Johnny Tie, Jimmy Dore is 100% right about police. I say this as a doctor dealing with them in the ER when they bring people in. Most of them are terrible people. There are a few good ones, but they either become disillusioned and give up, or die in service early on.
Really guys? Starting off by trashing Johnny Tie? Does it matter at all that he was right?
Chorus: JJIMMY JIMMY JIMMY!!!
I officially LOVE YOU JIMMY, AND AGREE WITH YOU 99.95% – I think most cops have convinced themselves that they are in this profession for the right reasons and are almost always wrong about it, but I assure you, 95% are not in it for the right reasons and most will say they are. It doesn’t mean they are all bad, about 35% of all human beings are “good” people – but the measure of an actual good person is someone who can be a cop and stay true to his initial principles and values and not loose them after seeing criminals do their “thing” on a daily basis – but to be able to do that, you need some level of intelligence and unfortunately, cops actually don’t have much of that, as people who do well in the aptitude test aren’t allowed to become cops because statistically (according to the selectors) they above average IQ people) get bored with police work too quickly and leave the force. This results in the police force having wasted all that money to train him and bring him up to standard. To prevent this waste of money, they deliberately choose police who are below a particular IQ (always). I don’t know what that IQ is, but isn’t that crazy? Wouldn’t you want the police force to be more intelligent than the general population?
So the selection process ensures you are not smart if you are a cop, unfortunately. But this is what we get if we give shit pay, we get shit people who ought to be doing something else with their lives.
In fact, I was so happy with Jimmy’s rant today that I decided I will not even complain to everyone about Cenk not being here and how we should receive a refund for the days in which he is absent (for those who want it anyway). There, I didn’t say anything, I’m just saying :).
Hey, eaxx~~
You already took up space w/ this same rant. How nice of you to stop yelling in ALL CAPS.
Did you know that there is a great 12 Step program where you should be right at home~?
It’s On And On Anon. Look for it~!
I wish you happiness. Seriously.
Does Michael dunk his head in the sink before each broadcast?
Holy shit Jimmy is drinking some serious bullshit Kool Aid. He is way out of line with the gross generalization. Should heavy handed cops be prosecuted? Absolutely. Should we put a (near) tamper proof camera on all big metropolitan cops? Definitely. But what Jimmy is just spouting over-generalized nonsense.
Here’s why I see it Jimmy’s way. there were a ton of cops standing around that woman. Which one of those cops were the good cops? NONE OF THEM. None of them did a fucking thing to help her. they were all participating in the assault, either actively, or passively, by doing nothing. If there was a good cop in that group, he didn’t do anything, and what’s the point of being a “good cop” if you keep it hidden?
If a group of people all act the same way, you’re free to generalize them.
I’m pretty sure he was wrong about every single cop being a terrible person. All of them are accomplices because they never find blame in themselves or their organization, but not all of them are terrible people. I’m sure there are two… no, five… I’m sure there are FIVE good cops.
And this is why Ana shouldn’t host the 1st hour (especially not with Jimmy Dore as guest).
I just got reminded why I haven’t watched the second hour in years.
Exactly
My only real complaint is that her transitions between stories are non-existent and jarring. I mean, she doesn’t even attempt a smooth transition. I thought segways were news reporting 101.
Jimmy is absolutely fucking right about police (on every point) and I’m sick of Michael Shure being an apologist.
I support women’s right to abortion, but I have to be honest, abortion is not a *positive* thing to me, it’s not something I can look at and enjoy. Not saying it’s bad, or wrong, or anything like that, but I can’t get happy about it.
GO JIMMY GO!!!! Every American deserves to hear an apology from all those cops in Zuccadi Park who left that poor young woman cuffed during a seizure. There were 20 cops who were right there and none moved to take off the handcuffs. That is disgraceful!!
The “Blue Wall of Silence” is not a myth Michael Sure, it is very real. Any cop that breaks it, even when another cop blows someones head clean off for no reason, the cops look the other way.
Deal with it.
Something parents are going to have to come to terms with in the future is that they don’t have any control any more over the content their kids have access to.
I know that sounds insane, like OF COURSE parents SHOULD have that control over their kids upbringing like that. But they just wont. And the stuff they’ll try to come up with to try to retain that control will be like opening an umbrella in defense of a hurricane. So we might need to change our attitudes about parents even trying to have control over that.
Every time i hear a story about parents concerned about the “appropriateness” of something their kids are exposed to, all i can think is “How naive are those parents?” Because basically as soon as parents don’t have their eye on their kids 24/7 – that is when they start going to school – they’re basically lost. Their kids are going to interact with other kids and which ever set of parents is the least restrictive and protective of their children’s access to the outside world is going to infect the rest of the bunch.
This is a new problem we didn’t used to have. I wouldn’t have suggested to parents “Just don’t try to limit your kids access to the horrors of the outside world, they’ll learn about it anyway” before the internet. Because at that point, there was only sideways cultural exchange if kids changed schools, and the intake of potentially dangerous ideas only came from television and movies and books. So if some set of kids learned some shit their parents didn’t want them to know, it wouldn’t infect every other group of kids in every school everywhere. BUT NOW, unless you put your kids in a box until they hit the arbitrary age of “readiness” you imagine exists, the moment they leave your sight, they’re lost.
So parents are just going to have to forget about that level of control.
I guess what made this story different is that it was assigned reading in her school? I think??
But I dunno. I think parental censorship in general is such bullshit -ESPECIALLY with sexual content. Kids, and teenagers especially, need to learn about the adult world AWAY from their parents. Jimmy and Ana were right -if her dad felt uncomfortable with the material, he should have used it as a learning opportunity instead of marching over to her school and making a huge scene about how it’s totally inappropriate. He got himself arrested over it? That sounds fucking mortifying for that poor girl. It also bothers me because it seems like it’s always more of an issue with girls than boys. I guarantee that almost every male classmate of hers is learning about sex online -but because porn is still more taboo for girls, sometimes books are the only outlet young girls get. People need to get a grip and just have conversations with their kids. Otherwise everybody ends up with a fucking complex.
But seriously. All that stuff aside . . . LET IT GO. I just don’t understand why parents care so much.
Yes Jimmy Dore is absolutely correct because you see it happen all the time. It is more the rule than the exception. Cops tend to be people that like to abuse others. Every single day you can find dozens of reports of cops abusing people. Michael Sure is simply trying to speak on the side of caution. But the truth came straight out of Jimmy’s mouth.
Jimmy Dore is so right about the cop issue but he’s way to absolutist in his argumentation. He needs to say “vast majority” not “all”.
lol I love how they pick on John. I find John to be the smartest most rational person in TYT, but since he doesn’t have the experience and credibility of the others he’s always the one getting mocked. John was very clearly correct in their argument yesterday.
Agreed.
But to be fair, I think pulling out the grad degree is fair fodder for some teasing.
what was the argument?
It’s not just today, John gets non-stop bullshit on air at TYT, especially from Ben (who ironically makes himself look like an idiot by constantly disagreeing with good points just for the sake of it). John’s one of the few people on TYT I can still stand.
I think the most rational person on TYT is Steve Oh. John is close to the top though.
Yes! I agree too!
I love Steve Oh. I wish he was on more frequently. We’d get a lot let faux news coverage for sure.
less*
The system disincentivizes cops from being good. Since cops actions are life and death and can destroy the livelihoods of people, when they make a mistake, generally the only recourse for the police department is to fire them. And the only way to keep cops working together well is if they think of themselves as cops versus everyone else, so they don’t want to call out their own. They will become against the rest of the police force and either get laid off eventually, moved to a shitty position or not backed up later when they make their own mistakes.
But individual cops can’t stand up to this system. It would be like a politician standing on principle and not taking campaign donations. Wouldn’t last long, it would just be a symbolic gesture. The way to fix this is a complete overhaul of our policies for police departments that includes some guarantee that for certain degrees of fuck up, that your job is not at risk. And that when you call out your own cops on corruption and wrong doing, you will be rewarded, not punished. And we need a better system in place for citizens to have recourse against cops wrongdoing. Because it is prohibitively expensive, in both time and money, to call cops out on wrongdoing, and because they are by default extremely protective of their own(to the point of making exaggerations and lies) and the assumption is that you’re a criminal trying to get out of some shit, it is likely that you will lose.
You raise some really good good points, and I think this speaks to what Jayar was trying to get at. There are many cops who get into the profession thinking they can be a positive force for their communities, but they become disillusioned when they come up against structural walls that prevent them from doing so. And like Jimmy says, it’s the entire CULTURE of the police force that’s the problem. He gets himself into trouble when he says every cop, but by and large and I think he’s right – “Where are the cops who refused to crack the heads of peaceful protestors?” is MORE than a fair question.
Excellent post. It really made me think about this issue in a more global sense.
The difference between the bartender and cop? One goes to fucking prison when he poisons your glass, the cop gets a paid vacation for shooting unarmed teens.
RICO the lot of them!
I love the fact that Jimmy and Michael can really disagree with each other and still be civil and joking in the next segment. Even though they obviously differ on a few issues, it’s obvious they still respect each other. Good to see this type of discourse instead of the cable news yelling fests that look like they’re two seconds away from ripping out each others throats.
I seriously love their panels together.
Jimmy Dore is right about Police being heavy handed.. BECAUSE THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT.
Michael Sure is massively wrong, you CAN make a very damning case against the majority of cops.. 99% do what they do because they have to smash the protesters heads in because the ALL DO IT.
Jimmy is absolutely correct, the Michael Sure cop is a fantasy.