Update to story of Hawthorne Police Department shooting a dog – new video. The three women held captive in Cleveland released a video about their progress in recovery. A 21 year old woman wanted to hire a hit man to kill her husband because it was easier than divorcing him, and she had her eye on the insurance pay out. An undercover cop met with the woman and it was filmed. Husband wanted to not give the woman jail time.
California prisoners on hunger strike. 50 cent got into a tiff with his son. He’s also facing charges by his girlfriend. Exchange of angry text messages. New York nun facing 90 days prison for stealing $128,000 from churches to feed her gambling addiction. Scorned Turkish wife destroys family home. Mobile app that rates guys sexual prowess. Lulu.
Comments
It’s POLICE BRUTALITY…It’s a POLICE STATE…Did they REALLY have to go and detain that guy??? It’s just police BS, throwing their power around and killing animals. They don’t value our lives, let alone our pets….I don’t even have a dog and I never have…..Cenk and Dave and these other commenters are just showing their conservative, brutal leanings….Too bad Cenk always shouts everybody down, and Ana and Jesus aren’t more forceful making their valid cases….Can you please stop covering this story because everytime Cenk opens hiis mouth on this I want to cancel my 6 year membership!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ah Cenk missed the PERFECT opportunity – the RAINS OF CASTROMERE!
Rottweiler jumping at me is a threat, no questions asked. sorry. And most dogs act up when you try to restrain his owner. All fault is with the dog’s owner.
I would have shot and shot again without worrying. Sorry, it’s not a police officer’s job to be bitten while they’re putting their lives on the line and possibly about to be shot because of some idiot’s decision to put his dog in a dangerous situation. I would sleep with a super clear conscious. Save the confected outrage for other police killing of dogs, where they shoot a house beagle or something just to be assholes. If a rottweiler is jumping at me, i’m firing.
This goes to show how little value people give a dog’s life. The second the cop feels he might get bitten he shoots the dog, Isn’t there a step before ending a life for fear of getting your manicure ruined? Everyone is talking about how the dog was this big threat to the cop, and that is simply bs. First of all the dog was a puppy i can even tell from the video that it was a puppy and i wasn’t there, the news report says the dog weighted 80 pound, a grown Rott weights over 130 pounds, and just like people young dogs are psychologically different from adult dogs, they are less prone to violence. Whatever the argument you may have about the dog being aggressive it certainly wasn’t a lethal threat to the officer, the officer just decided that he didn’t wanted to deal with the dog anymore and shot him. Simple. Cops actually have in their manual on discharging their firearms that they may do so if they have to deal with an aggressive animal, and oh boy they love that one!… Just look it up on youtube and see, you will find dozens of videos of cops killings dogs and literally hundreds of stories about cops killing someone’s dog after responding to a call, often the caller’s dog.
The dog is not a thing, even if he was a threat to the officer there should be intermediate steps between grabbing the dog’s leash and shooting it 3 times and letting him bleed to death on the street, i can come up with 10 different approaches to that situation in the time-span of 20 seconds and none of them involves killing the dog. The approach chosen by the cop certainly is the easier one. Makes me sick.
Another thing… Cenk always talks about beign MAAAAN, can you think of a more pussy move that this? A dog is loose, immediately draws the gun, i wonder what he was planning to do with that gun, maybe he wanted to intimidate the dog into submission…. the cop couldn’t wait to use it.
RE: The Dog Story – We are expecting the cops to do too much. They are not going to receive training for every possible situation that may come up. When looking back on cases like this one, it is always going to be easier to say what someone could have done. So, it goes without saying that they could have done something differently, but the dog owner could have done things differently as well. A responsible dog owner would not have put their dog in that kind of danger. If we are going to value the dog as if it were a person (more likely a child) then we have to ask ourselves, “Would it be wise to bring a child within the vicinity of a armed robbery?” Let’s take it one step further and ask is it wise to bring the child into that situation and stop to provoke police officers doing their job? In terms of shooting the dog, I think the cops were justified. The cops were dealing with people in the house that may be armed. If that guy wasn’t so busy being an asshole, he could have asked a nearby resident what was going and maybe would have thought twice about picking such a bad time to provoke officers. Here are a few things to think about in terms of what type of force the cops could have used under this situation. Obviously, you can’t arrest the dog. So, the question becomes to we expect cops to subdue a dog? Do we expect cops to be trained in that? To say the dog is not a threat is completely unfair… The owner of the dog tried to tell the dog to stop and get back, but the dog is not listening because he was trying to protect its owner… If that were a person, who did not listen and approached cops, the natural assumption would be that the person is threatening. Of course they could have tased the dog, but that means experiments would need to be done on how the electrical current in a taser gun hurts dogs vs. humans. Would we be o.k with that? Perhaps we should pepper spray animals just to ensure that cops know when it would be and not be o.k to use pepper spray or a taser or gun. If that cop gets bit while trying to taser the dog, what happens when the next cop tries to taser the dog? Keeping in mind all of this is going on while the cops are focused on a armed robbery. What does this do for the criminals who may want to harm the cops or escape while the cops are distracted by this guy who could have avoided the entire situation in the first place.
Maybe I’m like this because I’m not a libby lib who thinks that all killing is unjustified, but I’m on Cenk’s side when it comes to shooting the dog. I guess I’m a little biased too. When I was younger a buddy of mine had this beagle who’d never show any sort of aggression towards me every time I visited. However, one time when I was over Dory (that was the dog’s name), out of excitement, jumped on me and bit me right underneath my eye. It all happened so fast that I didn’t know what to do. Luckily, my friend came over and calmed his dog down but by the time I came to I didn’t even comprehend what had happened. One thing after another and I’m at the hospital getting stitches and the doctors told me I was lucky that the dog missed my actual eyeball. It wasn’t anything too serious and it’s not like I was damaged for life but all I’m saying is that an animal attacking you can happen so fast that you’re whole fucking face is off before you realize what’s going on. It’s just plain out impossible to act in the complete rational way in a time frame like that. I grew up with family pets as well and I understand the love a pet owner has for their dogs but for me, I probably would’ve done the same thing the police officer did.
38 dogs in 2012 killed 38 people. It’s the Great Unraveling Cenk was talking about, everyone quick! shoot a dog
They do this to a black man every day and it barely makes local news. Shoot a dog caught on camera about to attack you? Hung by the jury. I can’t feel any sympathy. That breed is known for being dangerous, powerful, and they once they get a hold of you, they don’t stop until they’re several injured or dead.
It’s a dog. It’s sad, no animal should die like that, but it’s a dog. Let’s all calm down. He didn’t shoot a kid in the middle of the street, he shot a dog jumping at him that thought his owner was in physical danger.
Is your empathy somehow limited? You’re saying that you can’t feel empathy towards both a dog and a black man (or a white man for that matter) if he’s shot under suspicious circumstances?
And your comments about the breed are ignorant at best. Sure, you can train a dog to be a killer, but that particular dog was no such thing and the situation could have been handled in a professional way, with he least amount of violence. That’s the difference, that particular dog was a not a lethal (or even a serious) threat.
And yes, it is a dog, but this discussion is, at least in my opinion, about how the American police force is too often prone to use lethal force against perceived threats. Too often their judgment has failed them.
My empathy is limited to things that matter.
Yes, it’s sad the dog died. But this is not suspicious circumstances. It wasn’t like a chiwawa jumped at the officer, it was a rottweiler. Look up the many statistics on them: http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2012.php
It’s a dangerous breed of dog that has a fighting mentality and they fight to kill. If that dog, who thought I was harming its owner, jumped at me, I would not hesitate to shoot. I’m not going to risk my health because some oversensitive animal lovers can’t ever see any scenario that it is understandable to shoot a dog. I absolutely agree they are always jumping to lethal force but guess what? That man was threatening their safety by distracting them from armed robbers, they didn’t shoot him. Obviously the police showed restraint. If anything, they were protecting that man because he’s distracting them and those armed robbers could have come out and started shooting at any moment. At least if they arrested him, he would be out of their way and out of harm’s way.
So my problem is not about black men, it’s about the fact that minorities are being murdered by cops all the time, kids are being bombed in other countries right now but what’s going viral? A dog getting shot after jumping aggressively at an officer. A certain group of people in this country always are ready to hang someone over a dead dog and it’s just annoying. Michael Vic fought dogs (btw, what kind?) and got two years in prison. A man in Texas murders a hooker – at night – and he’s free to go; it barely makes news.
Half of the people who argue this dog shouldn’t have been shot will argue that George Zimmerman was justified in shooting Trayvon Martin because he “looked suspicious” and punched him in the face once or twice.
So yes, my empathy is limited to things that matter.
What really shouldn’t have happened? That man getting himself arrested. He caused his dog to get shot. If officers are trying to deal with a very serious situation, I’m not going to be standing around agitating them. Whether they were justified in arresting him or not, the fact is they have the ability to. And why in the world would he put the dog in a car with all four windows down? Of COURSE the dog is going to jump out.
His idiocy and negligence got that dog shot.
(btw I want to correct my spelling of chihuahua which was obviously wrong lol)
First off, great show, TYT!
I don’t see eye-to-eye with Cenk & Dave. I’m not a dog owner, but that was some cold shit. I suppose the cops could have been terrified and reacted too quickly, but still.
Cenk’s totally right re: the dog story. I love dogs, but the moment that large, excited dog jumped up toward that cop, who was a stranger, it was a legitimate threat and (unfortunately) fair game to shoot it. The owner was stressed and agitated from being restrained, which made his dog stressed out as well as a result — stressed enough to bark at the cops restraining the owner and stressed out enough to jump out from the car and run toward them. It had moments where it looked friendly, but it did lunge up & towards that officer. It’s a strange animal that was large as well as stressed and agitated.
I can understand them not taking several chances that the dog would bite or attack them for trying to restrain his owner. This was not a situation where you could just give a large animal that doesn’t know you the benefit of the doubt. I agree that letting the owner go was an option, but (like Cenk said) he was JUST detained for being obstinate and uncooperative, so I understand why they didn’t give that man the benefit of the doubt. By the time the dog got out of the car, it was too late for letting the guy go, the dog was already in a position where it could attack someone.
Even in spite of that, they TRIED to grab the leash; shooting wasn’t the automatic impulse. Imagine anyone naysaying this being the one who had to try to grab the leash. If that dog jumped up toward them for just trying to grab the leash, they’d be scared for their safety immediately. If the dog had been calm instead of aggressive, the dog wouldn’t have been shot.
I was slightly in favor of the cops after the first video and firmly in favor of them after the second video. That guy was interfering with a live standoff, and the man was the one who fucked up and didn’t properly secure his dog in the car. It’s 100% the owner’s fault for carelessly putting his dog into that situation and getting it killed.
@Liontamer
There were, what, four officers present. Are you saying that they couldn’t handle a Rottweiler and a handcuffed suspect by e.g. firing warning shots or taking out their night sticks? Why is lethal force the only option so often for American police officers? IMHO, that dog was not a real threat for the police.
In my opinion, the lunge was prompted by the officer going in for the leash too fast. I’m not judging the officer for doing so. That is understandable. I’m just saying, that his repeated quick attempts to grab the leash made the dog jump. I do believe that the lunge was more of a warning or a reaction than an attack. But that is my personal opinion for what it’s worth. And I do have a dog and have been around them most of my life. I have a friend who has a doberman, which makes exactly the same kind of lunges (he’s still young) when he is excited, as in wanting to play.
It wasn’t four officers being jumped at, it was one. If that dog jumped and sunk it’s teeth into that officer’s leg or arm, what are they going to do to make the dog go? Rottweilers are known for biting and not letting go. They fight to kill. And beyond that, think about the health of those officers.
This dog could have any kind of disease, rabies, anything. They didn’t have a vaccine report to look at as they decided if they wanted a vicious animal bite that day.
Yes, only one officer was jumped by the dog. That would leave at least two more to help him, if there was need. Plus, you’re working from the assumption that a night stick or a warning shot in concert with three police officers would not have worked to scare the dog away. We can quibble over the hypotheticals for a long time, but my main point here has been that lethal force was not necessary, and that is indisputable.
But yes, they could have hit the dog, they could have let the apprehended suspect deal with his dog… They made a questionable choice in letting the man get to them, if they had more urgent matters at hand. Then they made a second questionable decision in shooting the dog.
You’re working from your preconceived notions about Rottweilers and dogs in general. This dog didn’t show clear-cut aggression and now you’re making up stuff with this disease nonsense and claiming that the dog was vicious. Please, don’t make up stuff, ok?
So hang on, the cops are attempting to apprehend a suspected armed robber and that jackass fires a gun multiple times??
I hate what Ana said about her friend with breast cancer. Her friend survived because she was LUCKY. “fighting” and “maintaining a positive attitude” have nothing to do with it, and that’s a damaging myth to perpetuate because it encourages people to blame themselves needlessly if their cancer happens not to respond to treatment. Ana needs to put some thought into changing the way she approaches discussing that subject publicly, because people who attribute cancer survival with positive attitude end up doing a LOT of emotional damage to those afflicted with cancer.
I think she meant survived mentally/emotionally.
There is no need for anyone to take retribution on A Castro.
Just put him in the general population of any lock-up.
Regarding the first piece of news
I really think people need to appreciate that managing an armed robbery is not a relaxing affair.
The sequence of events:
1. Man causes interference with police in a critical moment
2. Police arrests man (while every second they are away from the robbery is counting critically)
3. Dog jumps out of car and starts showing aggression.
4. Grievances aired at police shooting at that point – people “don’t think” it’s an eminent threat… I was a dog owner and I cannot discern with 100% certainty, but it looks very much like the dog was being aggressive.
5. This reflects REALLY badly on the whole panel except Cenk (who I have only seen before taking police brutality very seriously). They don’t realize looking at this sequence of events there is nothing the police has done wrong, except the fact that their empathetic appeal to their own dog has affected their judgement
I agree 100%. Why doesn’t anyone blame the owner? He harassed the cops for no reason whatsoever. He should have taken care of his dog. Honestly, I don’t even understand why this is a story. Aren’t there more important things to talk about?
Everyone knows the owner is an asshole who needlessly put his dog in danger as he was messing with the police, and then failed to roll up the car window enough. But the cops have a greater responsibility than he does – they should have noticed that the dog is agitated and was about to jump of the window, they should have been able to handle the damn dog without a gun (since he wasn’t actually attacking, he was jumping around his owner nervously), they fucked up by going for the kill immediately, being “on the safe side”.
Cenk is still wrong, Jesus and Ana are still right.
Also, the part that irks me the most is that the cop was reaching for the leash *while pointing the gun*. He was just looking for the reason to shoot, the reaching was just an excuse. If he had shot the dog without reaching toward the agitated rottweiler – and provoking it to jump again – it would’ve been harder to claim self-defense if they’d just shot the dog from ten feet away while it was pacing around.
The thing to remember is that the cops and this guy had a history, and he was suing the local police department. I also get the sense the cops had a pretty adversarial relationship with the people of the neighborhood. Honestly I think they WANTED to shoot that dog because they just plain didn’t like the guy.
@Highway234
If the police takes matters personally, it is a huge problem that should be addressed immediately by the commissioner/chief.
yeah. that’ll be the day.
Agree to disagree!
(I’m not a dog person and I’m not a dog owner.)
He wanted to take care of his dog, and he squirmed to be released from the cops to do so; he screamed and begged them not to fire at the dog. If that was an aggressive human, they still wouldn’t have shot at him; why is it ok to shoot just because it’s a dog.
I have a huge problem with when Cenk says “I know that it seems like a part of your family”. It shows his lack of respect for this life. Just as this video shows the cops’ disrespect for the dog’s life. The dog who does nothing wrong. Taking a life of a being that does nothing but listen to it’s instincts should not be done unless it is absolutely needed. The owner was interfering; not the dog.
@Fuzzysky (and Cenk)
1. The man does cause interference, but how would you know that the moment is critical. You’re simply making that part up. As Jesus and Ana said, the policemen made the judgement call to address the interference, which would be stupid if the moment was indeed critical.
To me it sounds more like that part of the situation was once again borne out of some sort of machismo issue, the police basically saying that “we can’t handle a heckler professionally because his stupid comments hurt or question my authority and masculinity”.
2. There was a siege. It was going on with or without these cops. There were plenty around. Even the policemen themselves made the questionable call to arrest the heckler. This argument is bogus.
3. The dog was calm and curious all through the encounter until the last moment, when he jumped at the policeman, who shot it. Anyone, who’s been around dogs more than casually can read that in its behavior. In my opinion, the lunge was prompted by the officer’s attempts to grab its leash. I agree, that it could be interpreted as aggressive, but as I said, only by someone not familiar with dogs.
I would also disagree with Cenk’s slippery slope argument here, saying that large dogs can be dangerous, so this one was as well, is not a convincing argument. The dog had only been curious about what was happening to its master. The police need to be more trained to pick up and interpret correctly what is happening in their environment. Violence isn’t the only answer. Cenk and Dave should also spend some time with dogs and study their behavior. Who knows, it might come in handy one day. It is also fun.
4. Clearly no one can be 100 per cent certain, but in that case you cannot make the claim my interpretation that there wasn’t really anything overtly aggressive in the dogs behavior. That’s the point, if you cannot be 100 % certain, you shouldn’t use lethal force. Yes, sometimes that sucks when you’re a policeman (or in the military), but that’s the standard that should be expected.
5. This is no argument, it’s an opinion, which you’re most certainly entitled to, but again, hopefully doesn’t convince many.
“4. Clearly no one can be 100 per cent certain, but in that case you cannot make the claim my interpretation that there wasn’t really anything overtly aggressive in the dogs behavior.”
(…is wrong either.)
This is one of those areas where people of equal good will can disagree and obviously do! Split second decisions can be wrong even with enormous amounts of training, but in this case I do not see right or wrong, just a matter of preference or erring on the side of caution. A lesson may be learned that can create a better (or less lethal) outcome for everyone in a future circumstance. In the end, though, humans remain individuals with individual responses.
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